Search Unity

  1. Megacity Metro Demo now available. Download now.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Unity support for visionOS is now available. Learn more in our blog post.
    Dismiss Notice

Collab Section Concerns

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Prion Games, Jan 21, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Prion Games

    Prion Games

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,509
    We need to do something about the Collab section. It is getting way to hard to recruit or even find a team now. I am not the only one that has been bringing up this issue. I feel that Collab section was never truly fixed and is now almost worthless. I mean it takes sometimes almost 4-5 days to get a thread accepted. if you make a thread and submit it you have no way of knowing if it even went through correctly, so you may be wasting time waiting for nothing.

    I actually liked it better when I could freely use it even if I had to skim through 20 MMO posts. This is a community, but it feels more like a prison. So many rules with like no reward for our efforts. We are mostly Indie and as of that title we have a hard time trying to get a decent team together. But now it is even more difficult. You may say hey use another site to recruit, like Game Dev, or w/e. But why should I have to go further than the community on which the engine I am using is located? I mean that section is dying and is making finding people too hard. I have been getting more people by PM'ing randoms on works in progress than anything. I should not even have to use PM that much as I rather use the reply button more. This is a forum after all.

    If you share the same concerns please reply here. Please keep it clean and hopefully we can reopen the topic from long ago and get it fixed this time around.
     
  2. JamesLeeNZ

    JamesLeeNZ

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    5,616
    I kind of agree. I dont even look at the collab section anymore.

    The fix made it more broken. All you get now is sly collab threads appearing elsewhere.
     
  3. Myhijim

    Myhijim

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Posts:
    1,148
    I do like the fact it is less flooded, but yes the length of time it takes to get a post approved is redonkulous.

    However on the other hand, I can assume that it would be very hard to moderate.

    The thing that really gets on my goat about the whole thing is the inability to bump, I know I'm not meant to, but in the end I get so sick of PMing every admin/mod and getting no results I hit the report post button asking for a bump....

    Especially the WIP section
     
  4. Uninity

    Uninity

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Posts:
    215
    Agreed, having the permission to comment on threads being removed has caused a pretty big issue amongst the collaboration community. Why is commenting still allowed on Commercial Work and not the Collaboration section? Is it because you moderators hate seeing posts related to MMO projects? Well, simply just don't accept them. I used to enjoy it when you could comment on people's threads and discuss things, not just with the original poster, but other people too. Now to contact somebody you have to PM them which people don't use as often and people often get confused in regards to it. You Unity3D staff call this a forum? I call it a joke.
     
  5. Myhijim

    Myhijim

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Posts:
    1,148

    Steady steady...... Let's keep it a concern post and not make it offensive

    An Ideas sub-forum would be a vast improvement I think. Not at the stage of teaming up, nor of WIP, that would drown out many of the "Letz build da best MMO evar" types
     
  6. Prion Games

    Prion Games

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,509
    I suggested to make it to where you must have 50 posts to post in Collab section. Not post I mean make a thread sorry. :) This way there is higher chance they been on the community enough to know what is acceptable and what isn't. If they refuse to listen start handing out more warnings, temporary bans. mature the community, don't imprison it.
     
  7. khanstruct

    khanstruct

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Posts:
    2,869
    Yeah. let's start insulting the staff. They love that.

    You weren't around in the days previous to the Collab lockdown. It was a chaotic mess of arguing, trolls and flame wars. It was so bad, in fact, that it lead to a very large discussion as to what to do about it.

    However, in the end, the solution was a bit simplified and we now have the Collab forum as it is. I agree, its a pretty pointless forum now. I never even look at it anymore. Unfortunately, thanks to the bickering juveniles on the forum, the alternative isn't much better.

     
  8. Myhijim

    Myhijim

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Posts:
    1,148
    But then they start to post in other places, like gossip, asking why they can't post in collab.

    I thought of that idea as well, but then it just leads to them flooding to get their pointless point across


    Yet still what we have now.. .It should have been a temporary solution
     
  9. Prion Games

    Prion Games

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,509
    Make the minimum characters limit on new users raised. So they are forced to post an actual decent thread, or post, not some lame 3 words and done. or make all new users veiw the forum rules page, and take a small 3-5 question quiz to show proof they read it. Make the questions always random or type in answers to avoid cheating from existing users. IDK, just some ideas floating around that just seem more logical and less daunting like the one in place.

    I have labeled the Collab section as the "Graveyard".
     
  10. UnknownProfile

    UnknownProfile

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Posts:
    2,311
    I partially agree. On the rare occasion, though, there are people who have been using Unity without using the forums. What may be a bit better is a questionnaire before posting, and that acts as a first line of defense before the threads even reach the moderators. The mods could see the answers and judge if the thread is even worth taking a look at or if it should be dismissed. It could save them a bit of work.
     
  11. Prion Games

    Prion Games

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,509
    That would still have the issue of the Mods actually having to accept every thread. On a forum waiting to get a thread accepted is like the most painful thing to do on a community. people love community's for the instant posting, if we must wait, it should be on an email, not a forum. :( Either that or get more volunteer Mods for that specific section.
     
  12. n0mad

    n0mad

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Posts:
    3,732
    Simple solution : advertise in your signature that you're searching for collabs. If you're active enough on this forum, people will see your sig, and if they want to work with you, you will be contacted.
     
  13. loadexfa

    loadexfa

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Posts:
    214
    I used collab a couple months ago and did not have any issues with it. Sure, approval takes a little time, but I have a hard time understanding why waiting a few days to see your post is a big deal. I didn't realize underfunded indie projects need team members to join right away! :)

    If the mods have time, letting someone know their post was rejected (and why) would be useful. Of course arguing with everyone who doesn't follow the rules about why their post was rejected would be a waste of time for admins/mods, I'd rather they stay focused on the forums like they are now.
     
  14. Myhijim

    Myhijim

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Posts:
    1,148



    I like you. Haha
     
  15. Uninity

    Uninity

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Posts:
    215
    Umm, I've been on this forum for 2 years actually (Join date: 07-2011)and yes, I was here when there wasn't a lockdown and there was no problems with it. Ahhh, the times where you could freely post a thread without having approval! I didn't even find it bothering in the slightest bit. There was a quite large number of staff back then that could easily take care of the thread situations on the collab section but now they've gone to reduced numbers. Like Josh said, all these new rules are making it seem like a prison
     
  16. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Posts:
    3,424
    This may actually me something to take into consideration, As community manager id like to see Aurore chip in here, hopefully she will :)

    Few things that I like:

    -Approval of posts (sometimes its slow, for me its always been quick.)

    -Lack of noob threads

    Few things I dislike:

    -Noob threads (actually still seems to be a lot of sh*t getting through for the sake of. 'Lets let the kid have a shot' when the stuff being posted is really, not at any quality standard to be approved, its like someone hasn't even read the thread)

    -No deny/acceptance message (if your thread ins't accepted to the collab section, you should get an auto PM)

    -No posting policy (I mean, what the hell, this is idiotic in my opinion, Its a forum for goodness sake, this is the only point I would seriously stress in changing)

    Prion, what may be a nice idea is to edit the OP with a list of concerns clearly, but cleanly presented. Just so people can skim and see whats up.

    -C
     
  17. Myhijim

    Myhijim

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Posts:
    1,148
    How about the collab original post has to contain a certain amount of images and a certain length of content?
     
  18. hippocoder

    hippocoder

    Digital Ape

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Posts:
    29,723
    I think everyone has rose tinted memories and forgets the non stop flamewars, repeat threads, bumping and general childishness.

    I don't recall a single finished good project that came of it.

    If you're so eager for an open collab forum, make one.
     
  19. Prion Games

    Prion Games

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,509
    My points of concern:

    1) Need more Mods to run the section

    2) Faster acceptance/denial time

    3) Allow posting (one of the biggest issues)

    4) If you ever get a thread accepted once, you should be able to have it auto accepted forever after, as you have shown you did what was asked of you and should understand thereafter the process

    5) Make 2 sub sections

    Planning

    Recruiting


    6) Any other concerns members come up with post below........................
     
  20. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Posts:
    3,424


    1: Maybe
    2: Depends on point one
    3: 100% yes
    4: No
    5: No

    Point 3 is important, defiantly.
     
  21. antenna-tree

    antenna-tree

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Posts:
    5,324
    Thread approval isn't based on the quality of the project. It's based on the amount of solid information provided. I think I've explained this about a dozen times now in various threads on this topic.

    Yes, I wish there was a way to automate this. At the moment the volume is simply too high to respond to every declined thread. All I can say is that 100% of threads make it through and if it doesn't show up within 72 hours it was not approved. I have been on vacation and sick recently so there has been a slight pile-up over the last couple weeks... should be back to normal soon.

    There is no mechanism to allow people to reply to the threads without the OP pointlessly bumping his own thread 4 times a day. This was a major problem of the old system.

    Keep the suggestions coming though. We know the current solution is far from perfect.
     
  22. Myhijim

    Myhijim

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Posts:
    1,148
    I like point 6
     
  23. Prion Games

    Prion Games

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,509
    Yes, you being sick is a prime example of needing more mods to cover for you, and others when things come up. As people individually get sick and take days off, the community as a whole will not.
     
  24. dtg108

    dtg108

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Posts:
    1,165
    I just REALLY think that if you've posted so many times and have posted a couple times on the collab section before, you should be able to auto-post. Maybe have 100 posts before you can start without approval. Or even two hundred-300. Maybe you could also have 3 posts in the collab section, then it will auto-post. Anything before 100-200 posts will have to be approved. Something needs to be done.

    Also, I agree that we need something about posting. Maybe have the OP have a post limit, then they have to PM if someone is interested.
     
  25. Uninity

    Uninity

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Posts:
    215
    Instead of going ahead and locking down the collaboration forum, talk to the community and have thier thoughts on what you're about to do for either positive or negative feedback. Instead of inventing these new idiotic (IMO) rules, why dont you come up with different solutions to maintain a stable collaboration forum.

    1. Make the minimum limit of a reply atleast 15 characters (for example).

    2. Make a maximum time of how many times you can post on a single thread (maybe like 5) in a day. Refreshes after a full day.

    3. Filter the word 'bump' so people cannot use it in replies.

    4. Active members in the community get rewarded for once! People with 300 posts + get auto approval and unlimited commenting because with 300 posts, you know they are trustworthy and reliable enough.

    5. Make a vote thread with a poll on this topic. NOW!
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  26. Prion Games

    Prion Games

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,509
    I agree something needs to be done.
     
  27. UnknownProfile

    UnknownProfile

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Posts:
    2,311
    Maybe something community volunteers only to help moderate Collab would work.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  28. antenna-tree

    antenna-tree

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Posts:
    5,324
    Do I have to remind you of the first time you tried to post in Collaboration? ;-)

    Good, honest, and mature volunteer moderators are hard to find. That's why we only have two of them right now.
     
  29. hafizmrozlan

    hafizmrozlan

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Posts:
    117
    I think we should make a system where the community itself can decide wether the project in the collaboration section worth it or not. Let say like a vote system, if the thread is ridiculously over ambitious, then we, the community can flag the thread, give it negative vote or something similar, so other will know how worthy is the project. Just my 2 cents.

    Let them have positive vote as well though.
     
  30. Myhijim

    Myhijim

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Posts:
    1,148
    2. That..... No, what if you are having a discussion?

    3. Then they will use dump, jump, lump or anything else
     
  31. dtg108

    dtg108

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Posts:
    1,165
    Besides, people say that the collab section was a mess with trolls, little kids, etc, but just look at the WIP forum, half of them don't ever include pics.
     
  32. dtg108

    dtg108

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Posts:
    1,165
    @ Antennae tree Oh yes. sorry about that again :D. I meant a couple approved posts :).
     
  33. TerrainCreator

    TerrainCreator

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Posts:
    161
  34. superpig

    superpig

    Drink more water! Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Posts:
    4,649
    How bad would it be if the present policy on what a thread requires were applied reactively/retrospectively, rather than how it is now? i.e. all threads are approved by default, but moderators review new threads when they can and delete ones that don't meet the requirements. The community can flag threads that don't fit the bill to help bring moderator attention to them faster.

    That way, threads don't get stuck in limbo when the moderators are unavailable.

    I think that's how we ended up doing things on Gamedev.net and it worked pretty well, especially once a clear pattern of 'how to post' has been established in the forum.
     
  35. UnknownProfile

    UnknownProfile

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Posts:
    2,311
    Also, about the auto-posting if a post has been accepted, maybe some kind of mark for a user that has finished a collaborative project can auto-post. having many posts in collaboration doesn't mean anything other than you have posted to collaboration many times. The same goes for general post number.
     
  36. dtg108

    dtg108

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Posts:
    1,165
    This. Gamedev.net doesn't have to approve posts, but it is very nice. Maybe you could have a filter with screenshots to show that they've done something. Otherwise, they can't post.

    Also, maybe you could have some kind of a badge that mods could give so people could post in the collab section without approval for when they need too. The badge could be taken away if needed.
     
  37. Prion Games

    Prion Games

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,509
    Is seems quite obvious by now that we can all agree, I think. That My #3 concern is a community concern. Allowing posts.
     
  38. UnknownProfile

    UnknownProfile

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Posts:
    2,311
    This can easily be fooled by somebody putting up pictures from other games of what they want their games to look like.


    Yes, but with a certain amount of restrictions.
     
  39. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Posts:
    3,424
    Antenna, I have personally witnessed several threads which, Just, baffle me as to why they are allowed in. There was this one guy who literally just posted saying 'Im a programmer, Looking for a team to make some games with'

    I just don't see how that kind of post is applicable for the collaboration section, I think it should be for posting projects you are wanting people for, if you are looking for a project, you don't need to post about it you just look for one.

    Is there no way to generate a plugin to do this? I'm not very web savvy, If there is just no technical way of doing so, then thats no problem, would have just been efficient thats all.

    Couldn't this be addressed by moderators? If it happens, the moderators do their role of stepping in and first of all saying 'please don't do this'. Further 'rule breaks' lead to removal of their thread.
     
  40. Myhijim

    Myhijim

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Posts:
    1,148
    Most certainly the most important point
     
  41. TerrainCreator

    TerrainCreator

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Posts:
    161
    True but true developers wouldn't do that...
     
  42. Prion Games

    Prion Games

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,509
    I feel strongly that as a whole the community can sort out a plan, but this time we need to have the whole community back it, not like the cut and dry plan that went to pass last time without any community backing. please keep the community 1st and foremost in any decisions. We use the forums everyday and as such we should be able to come together for a solid solution.
     
  43. khanstruct

    khanstruct

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Posts:
    2,869
    I can't even express how untrue that is.

    Anyway, yes, things should change. Granted, I have a fairly solid team, and I've made enough connections here that PMs work just fine, but I do miss the old Collab. I would often just throw out some GUI work to teams that needed it.

    We also have to remember though, that programming all this fancy, automated stuff into a forum isn't a simple task. I doubt they're looking to reprogram the forums. We should find a solution with the members and existing systems, not try to invent new ones.
     
  44. JohnnyA

    JohnnyA

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Posts:
    5,041
    It's not perfect but I tend to disagree with the sentiment being expressed here; the quality of the posts on collaboration has gone up quite a bit. Most projects have links and screenshots. Many have demos.

    Games generally takes months if not years to build so I don't think a 3-5 day wait is much to worry about.
     
  45. antenna-tree

    antenna-tree

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Posts:
    5,324
    This was the old system and it was a nightmare to moderate. Not to mention all the noise generated by "do-gooders" trying to police the section themselves with advice. That's where half the noise came from before.
     
  46. TerrainCreator

    TerrainCreator

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Posts:
    161
    You have a point but alot of people just want to find a team and get started and waiting 3-5 days makes the developers loose interest. If i was developing i don't want to sit around and wait for a post to be approved.
    And when it is accepted people don't really visit calibrations often as only a few posts are accepted.
    If you understand what i mean.
     
  47. Prion Games

    Prion Games

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,509
    Yah, we do not need Community Police, we just need civilians with common sense. :)
     
  48. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Posts:
    3,424
    Yeah I agree on this, Its the same now but with people thinking they know how people should make games. 'Don't make slender!' and all that jibba jabba.

    Far more complex to come up with a solution then it seems.
     
  49. antenna-tree

    antenna-tree

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Posts:
    5,324
    No offense, but you were one of the main policing "noise generators" in the old collaboration section ;-)

    People just can't help themselves from giving advice or opinions on every other collaboration thread. And that's where most of the noise came from... not the actual OP.
     
  50. UnknownProfile

    UnknownProfile

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Posts:
    2,311
    You haven't been here as long as I have ;)
    There have been quite a few threads that were completely plagiarized.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.