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Cinemachine v1.1

Discussion in 'Cinemachine' started by Adam_Myhill, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    This thread covers all discussions around Cinemachine Base Rig, which includes:
    • Composer
    • Transposer
    • Blender
    • Priority
    • Noise
     
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  2. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    The thread for all discussions regarding Cinemachine Game Rig, which includes:
    • Free-Look
    • Reactor
    • Collider
    • Cloud
     
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  3. mikew_unity

    mikew_unity

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  4. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    Here are some ideas on how to use Base Rig for in-game cameras.

    There's a really powerful idea where you ‘Marionette’ Cinemachine instead of using it 'directly'. Sure you can target a bone on the hero character with the Composer and that’s probably the perfect way to do your cinematic setups, but there’s a lot of other ways to use Composer and Transposer

    Say you want to target the center of a group of objects, perhaps you want to track the average position of all your enemies. Composer can only target one object but it's easy to extend that. Create a dummy object, say a small sphere and call it ‘Camera Target’. Have the game position this object via a script which positions it based on the average of all the objects you want to target.

    The sphere will now erratically bounce around based on the # enemies but that’s ok because the Composer has the dampening controls. You don't need to have the camera target script be that fancy at all because the Composer will smooth out any sharp motion.

    Blend between different cameras based on gameplay events and you can now zoom out when there’s more guys or zoom in when there’s less and you’ll have complete control of where you want them onscreen.

    Blending cameras with all the same properties except for zoom / Composer composition allows for easy to broadcast events to trigger cameras giving you exactly the control you want.

    This marionette idea works for Cinemachine Transposer too. It's easy to setup an object, let's say a cube, to follow your character and have it raise and lower depending on the number of enemies around it. Since Transposer has per-axis dampening, you can easily make the camera motion be very fluid and have the camera control objects - the sphere for the target (Composer) and the cube for the camera body (Transposer).

    Driving objects with scrips and using them to drive Cinemachine is an incredibly powerful way to do in-game cameras for top down, side scroller, 3rd person AA and many other examples where you want the camera to behave a certain way.

    We spent a long time getting the dampening and weight to feel right with Cinemachine. All that math has been fine tuned to feel like a weighted camera. You can feed in some pretty dirty motion and have Cinemachine smooth it all out.

    Please feel free to share your game scenario for suggestions on potential camera setups. I'm here to help and love doing this stuff!
     
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  5. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    So what's scripting with this like? I use rewired for all my input to ensure working cross-platform support and I'd hate to be tied down to the Unity input system.
     
  6. ahmidou

    ahmidou

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    Hi Adam,
    I was wondering if there is a way to change the 3 components (Composer, Transposer, and noise) evaluation order ?
    Let's say I'm adding a position noise on the camera but want it to always look at a specific object. Currently the noise seems to completely override the transposer.


    Thanks
     
  7. laurentlavigne

    laurentlavigne

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    Composing shots in camera space are you kidding me? You're going to put previs artist out of a job! ;)

    Love it off course. The fact that it's a dll make it easy to plug in, very nice, and using scriptable objects for settings is nice because we can tune them at run time! It would be nice to record a camera shot at runtime too, see the user input as a function of the composer's reaction to the subject - what the hell does this mean? instead of animating or capturing the camera's absolute params, record the params as function to the camera's relationship to the subject. Easy ;)

    Comments:

    In the custom blending example, when the shot moves from close to far the composition is good, the cube drifts in frame from center to upper quadrant as expected, but when moving from far to close the cube is moving up for no reason, why is that and how do I fix this?
    From what I'm seeing in the blend code, all you're doing is lerp the weight linearly and since framing is reactive it shouldn't behave like a reverse of time

    The noise isn't bad but it looks like it's shot in zero G, in real life we got gravity, muscle wear, too much sugar in the DP's coffee, at least add a bias parameter to account for gravity.
     
  8. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    ahmidou,

    That's a fantastic question. We are currently looking into further-modularizing the Cinemachine compoonents so order re-arrangement will be trivial - you can put noise after Transposer but before composer, etc. Arrange it however you want.

    That said, I believe you can achieve what you want right now. The Cinemachine noise has been designed to give that effect where the camera body receives noise but still looks at the target.

    If you want to just move the camera body and have it keep looking at the target, make sure the Composer has an active target object and just put positional noise on that shot. The camera will move and it will keep looking at the target. Voila.
     
  9. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    Ha thanks for the feedback and nice words. Cinemachine was made from love due to the lack of camera tools and a desire to try out crazy ideas without having to code everything. I'm happy you get the philosophy.

    Blends: Blends work in that if both the target and destination camera have the same components it will blend those components VS a straight positional lerp. Example if camera A has a Composer and camera B has a Composer than just the Composer settings blend - the composition blends - not anything else. If the same components can't be found then it lerps the position but it will always try to maintain the composition if there's a Composer on either camera.

    So basically, if you have a composer on either or both camreas, it's going to try to do its job VS lerp. Sometimes that can give strange effects but more often it gives a desired effect - composing your target.

    Did that help?

    As for noise, yes adding additional simulations (and sugary drinks) is interesting. The numbers take a lot of massaging but you can get there with straight-up per axis multichannel Perlin noise. I've shipped a lot of cameras with just this setup and it's been great, the main problem is polishing up the settings and saving your presets.

    I would love to further extend noise to take gravity and dampening and some other great ideas like you mentioned into consideration. It's on the roadmap for future releases For now, we're crushing hard on getting Game Rig done !
     
  10. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    We've worked to keep it as open as possible. Reactor has a game related hookups to our internal 'blackboard' system so you can expose whatever data streams you'd like to the input of Reactor and of course the rest of the camera.

    The documentation will fully explain how to hook all that up.

    As for visual scripting tools, that's a great question and one we're looking into. It would be great to pipe stuff from your scripting language into Reactor. I haven't used Rewired on a project yet so I'm not familiar with the details of it but it is something that I'll look into. It may already be possible.
     
  11. laurentlavigne

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    Note about the inspector GUI, you can combine top with bottom and left with right in a range slider, more compact, easier to understand relationships = more greatness.

    No ;) so I'll explain more in detail what I'm talking about.

    Take the example scene that's included in the package, "custom blending" click start blend, as it goes from CU to a wide the camera tilts up to try keep the cub frame center which is the expected behavior as the dampen zone is reacting to the cube tendency to leave frame up.
    Click the button again and as it goes from a wide to a CU the composer isn't trying to keep the cube frame center reactively, instead it's tilting down before the cube is starting to leave the frame in anticipation. This is the wrong.
     
  12. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    Got it, thank you for the excellent breakdown. We'll analyze this in the office. It looks like a bug for sure. Composer should be keeping the subject in the frame the whole time. I suspect this is a quick fix. I'll get back to you shortly, thanks for the excellent description.
     
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  13. Kolyasisan

    Kolyasisan

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    Is it going to be released under the Unity hood as the BaseRig? Will we be able to use it for free with Timeline?
     
  14. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    Cinemachine Base Rig and Game rig (coming soon) will be free Asset Store packages until we fully transition them internally. So yes, use it for free with Timeline !

    Note: It looks like Cinemachine will be upgraded in the process of doing the Timeline integration. All of your previous CM cameras will work just fine but you probably will have to create new Timeline-able Cinemachine cameras for Timeline once the Timeline/Cinemachine package comes out. Not a huge deal, just a heads up.
     
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  15. 00christian00

    00christian00

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    Hi,
    Finally managed to test it properly. Awesome job guys. It wasn't as difficult as I thought, after reading few lines of the docs :)
    By the way I have some issues to report:
    1-If you don't activate the transposer you can't move the camera without disabling cinemachine.
    2-Any way to lock on a target that move at high speed( something like Sonic the hedgehog) without having the target move too far from the camera and using both composer and transposer? If I make the soft area too small it produce jerkiness due to the high speed the character is moving.

    I had the same problem in my camera system and I had resorted to make the movements in local space of the target, which remove the jerkiness issue as everything is relative to it.
     
  16. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    Hi Christian,

    Transposer movement - are you moving the camera or changing the transposer offsets to the target object?

    Composer - trust me it's rock solid. We've shot things going 1km/second and it holds up. The issue isn't Composer or Transposer it's how your object is moving. We get this question all the time.

    Here is what most likely is happening:

    A. You have impulses in delta time causing large velocities followed by low velocities
    B. There is a rigid body not being set to interpolate
    C. There are sudden variances in the animation (much less common, since you can see that in the animation curves)

    Solution for A: Use the logger to validate impulses in dT. if it's very spiky then you need to smooth the framerate

    We've seen this on some really high-profile games where characters weren't moving smoothly and it freaked the cameras out. Unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it in Cinemachine, it's just reacting to tracking an object that is moving all crazy (even if it doesn't look that bad on screen...)

    Please let me know how it goes

    A
     
  17. 00christian00

    00christian00

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    I am using Transposer + Composer. The composer alone is smooth, but the combination of the two create jerkiness.
    I have a character that is moved at variable speed but that speed is already lerped and I verified already that the movement is smooth without spikes.
    The issues is this:
    I would like to keep the character in a specific position of the frame, so I give it a small window in Cinemachine.
    The character exit the window, so cinemachine reframe it in N frames.
    Then the character exit again and cinemachine reframe it again in N Frames.
    All this play of catch up create a jerkiness effect, like a cat and mouse play at high speed.
    Keep in mind it's not going in a straight line, but moving in all directions, performing loops and so on.
    If you give it a bigger window and dampening values it is more stable but it goes more far from the camera then I would like.

    By the way, the kind of jerkiness I am talking about is the same you can see on the GameRig video when moving the camera manually with the dinosaur at 2.34, you can see the image trembling.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  18. laurentlavigne

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    If you call the sequencer "timeline" you'll conflict with established naming in all 3d software and unity itself. Because Unity has so many free users it generates a lot of internet noise which google picks up, so people searching for general timeline concept will start seeing unity timeline. I know that from a pure PR standpoint it's clever but this is obfuscation common term, polluted google and this will piss people off. If you want to be a good internet citizen I'd suggest renaming it before it gains too much traction here.

    6a0134897dc259970c0154374624d1970c.jpg
    Screen Shot 2017-01-15 at 12.15.22 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2017-01-15 at 12.16.08 PM.png
     
  19. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    Hi laurentlavigne,

    A tremendous amount of thought goes into the names of things at Unity. Each 3d program has their own name for it and many have been copyrighted. Unitys straightforward name for the tool is not to get to the top of google searches or to obfuscate common terms, it's just calling something what it is. I think if people are looking to find tutorials in a specific 3d package, they'll search for that appropriate name. Unity calling their sequencer tool Timline won't clog those searches.
     
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  20. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    Thanks for the additional description.

    Questions:

    Do you have the Composer and Transposer both targeting the same object? What is the Transposer target set to - a fixed or moving object?

    How are you animating your object?

    Did you do use the logger to validate impulses in dT?

    The reason for the jerkiness in the Game Rig video at 2:34 is that I'm moving the camera while the game is running - via the mouse in the scene window!- which gives wacky updates. If you animate the objects properly, Cinemachine isn't jerky. I did almost an hour of cutscenes with Transposer on my last project and it was just fine, which makes me think that your impulses are maybe the issue.

    I want to get your issue sorted! So please use the logger to check your impulses in delta time and share that info.

    A
     
  21. XaneFeather

    XaneFeather

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    I'm eagerly anticipating the release of Game Rig with utmost interest. Is there any chance of getting our hands on a pre-release version? I'm well aware that some aspects of Game Rig might receive breakting changes over the course of its development up to the public release, but I would very much like to start designing our next camera concept around Game Rig's functionality.
     
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  22. Shizola

    Shizola

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    This looks so good. Smart investment by Unity, will raise the quality of so many games.
     
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  23. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    XaneFeather,

    Reach out to me: Adam.myhill@unity3d.com
     
  24. 00christian00

    00christian00

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    When you talk about logger you mean a simple Log or a there is a Logger specific for Cinemachine?
    Cause I haven't found it. I have a log tool which record the movement for each frame, but I never found it very useful to debug the camera cause that tool itself introduce a lot of spikes due to the fact that it need to save a ton of data every frame and I never found the time to write my own.
     
  25. C-Jenkins

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    I've had some time to work with Cinemachine game rig after you've sent it over. I'm curious if there's any documentation available for it? As it stands, I've just been trying to figure out how it works by inspecting the public members that aren't sealed, and the examples provided.

    Specifically, I'm trying to solve the issue of camera penetration into the walls of the environments. Our camera is configured to spin a pivot game object by user control, and the Cinemachine virtual camera is set to maintain it's local space position. By doing this, we can get a nice orbit, and zoom behavior. However, it seems that the collider component isn't working at all in this setup. It will simply jitter and vibrate or go through the walls completely.

    I've improved the behavior by ending user control when a feeler detects a collision. However it does not appear there's a way to detect which feeler is colliding. I want the user to be able to move away from a collision, but not towards it. Simply disabling input does not seem to be a viable solution because you're unable to move away after a collision has occurred. It seems the bool that checks any feeler is still returning true even after it has depenetrated.

    I've made my own feeler system to detect collisions with the intended movement direction and stop movement. However, I'm still having problems, as the "inertia" or damping of the camera under control of Cinemachine can still carry it into objects.Is there a way to manually stop the interpolation or tell Cinemachine to cancel or interrupt the current blend?

    Am I using the components incorrectly? Is there a better way to set things up?

    I'm curious about one thing though. Why is that Cinemachine is closed source, and sealed? I really love the camera system, but the lack of ability to extend and customize it has been a consistent issue for us.

    Finally, can you estimate when Game Rig is to be released?
     
  26. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    C-Jenkins, great questions.

    Documentation: We are working on it. Game Rig is an early beta release with zero documentation available at the moment. As soon as it's available I'll let you know.

    Camera going through walls: Try different dampening values. We are aware of this issue and it will be fixed for release but for now try different dampening values as that clears it up on our end. It's a bit touchy.

    Detect feeler when colliding: Yes that needs to be exposed. We will do so, that's great feedback.

    Manually stop Cinemachine blend: That could work but I feel it's a bit of a band-aid solution. The correct method is to have Collider work perfectly in this scenario so that's where we're going to spend time. Stopping Cinemachine during this scenario could cause other issues... so it's better for us to make it work as intended.

    As long as Collider is on any Cinemachine rig, it should work properly. That's the intended config for it. Collision systems have so many crazy edge cases and we are working to make improve this for the official Game Rig release.

    Why is CM closed source? Great question. The main reason why is because we used to be a small tech company which makes camera plug-ins for Unity. Years of work and thousands of lines of code for only $79. The math on some of the systems - especially Composer - is super sophisticated and it's our IP. Opening it up so everyone can see exactly how it works was scary for us and not necessary for most users. Now that Cinemachine is part of Unity, you'll be able to get the source code if you have a source code license (once CM is totally integrated. I totally get the desire to customize and extend it and am happy to discuss this further however, the goal is for each CM component to be small and modular enough that people aren't feeling the need to customize things but I realize that's not always going to be the situation

    When is Game Rig going to be released? ... it's been 'coming soon' for months now, I know I know, but I can say that we have double the staff now that it's a part of Unity and we are working on it. As you can see there's a lot in there and we want it to be in really good shape for its release. Feb-March.
     
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  27. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    In the Unity Profiler, watch for long frame times and see if that matches when your camera jitters. My guess is that it does because so far every 'cinemachine jitters' issue has been due to variances in dT.

    Crack open the Unity profiler and have a look.
     
  28. kmccullough

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    I'm not sure if this is the right thread to post in, but the Cinemachine asset pack from Unity worked great for all of 1 shot, then whenever I try to set up another one it completely freezes my camera at (0,0,0) when I link it to the AUTOGEN asset in the hierarchy. It hasn't done this before, anyone else experience this?
     
  29. C-Jenkins

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    Thanks, that's good to hear. I look forward to the improved release.

    In regards to dampening values, we've turned the damping up to the highest and that does seem to help. I'll keep experimenting with it.

    On the subject of closed source, I certainly understand the desire to protect your IP. I suppose the real issue is having access to as many data points and settings as possible. With the current setup a lot of things are private or sealed, and that prevents me from being able to adjust them as needed for our specific use case. I could do some crazy reflection shenanigans, but that's hardly a solution for a production release of a game.

    As some examples, being able to control maximum velocities of the camera, having the velocity of the virtual camera through space, so I can project the current path forward in time, and exposing data if a camera has a clear shot / no collisions before activating it.

    Thank you for your time, you've been quite helpful.
     
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  30. Micz84

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    I have one problem with cinemachine. I have quite big world and I need to move everything, and camera is also realigned, but cinemachine animates it from previous position. Is there a way around this issue?

    And another question is it possible to have to cameras on scene each using its own virtual cameras?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  31. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    Hi Micz84, could you give a little more information on the problem - You move the world and the camera together? How are you moving everything?
     
  32. Adam_Myhill

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    Hi kmccullough - no that's not desired behavior !

    You don't need to link subsequent cameras, just make as many virtual cameras as you want and turn them on/off based on whatever your game desires.

    The priority system will handle instances if your game may be triggering multiple cameras rapidly - like in an animation / camera state machine setup where you have different cameras for walk, run, sprint, combat, etc.,

    The AUTOGEN asset holds the blend information, the default is a smooth 2 second blend. That's also where you can setup custom blends between cameras - A to B is a 1 second blend, B to A is a cut, etc. There's also wildcards 'ANY camera to C is a 3 second blend' etc.

    Make a clean test project. Import Cinemachine, make a couple virtual cameras, position them differently, hit run and turn them on and off. You'll get smooth blends between them all.
     
  33. Adam_Myhill

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    C-Jenkins, those are some fantastic examples of why it should be more open. This is part of our discussions for sure, now that its a part of Unity I would like to open it up much more.
     
  34. luispedrofonseca

    luispedrofonseca

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    @Adam_Myhill Is it possible to get access to a pre-release version of the Game Rig? Would love to take a look.
     
  35. Adam_Myhill

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    We are very very close to releasing an updated Beta of Game Rig which uses an updated Cinemachine foundation. If you could wait a week then I'd much prefer you have something which isn't outdated basically straight away
     
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  36. luispedrofonseca

    luispedrofonseca

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  37. Micz84

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    I use latitude, longitude coordinates in double precision as main main coordinate system. My world is on sphere. When camera moves certain distance from the origin about 1500 m, I set origin at current camera position and adjust positions of other game objects according to theirs latitude longitude relative to current origin. Unfortunately camera stays at last position and flies back through entire scene to composer and transposer object.

    I need more cameras because my second and third camera are on their own displays or in Pip mode.
     
  38. OCASM

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    In the 2015 Unite talk there's mention of an "impulse" node. Is that something that is still in the works?
     
  39. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

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    Ok thanks I have a better understanding of this. We will discuss it here tomorrow and I'll get back to you ASAP.
     
  40. Adam_Myhill

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    Yes there is! Impulse is on the roadmap. It comes after we get Game Rig out the door and a few other things. It will be an additional module in the Game Rig universe. It won't be coming out any time in the short while though as we have a couple of other things to do right after Game Rig is done. Summer timeframe.
     
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  41. OCASM

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    How can I avoid the jittery movement when using damping in the Composer settings? I'm using the Third Person Controller found in the Standard Assets. It doesn't matter if I update the movement in Update(), LateUpdate() or FixedUpdate(). Same results with all of them.
     
  42. Adam_Myhill

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    Hi OCASM,

    Composer and camera controllers can fight. That's why we've made Free-Look which is coming out very soon!

    The problem is that Composer - all of Cinemachine - is updated at the very very end. It has to, cameras need to shoot what's happening which means everything needs to happen before the camera goes to shoot it.

    If Composer has damping on it then that Third Person Controller is just going to fight with it - you'll be moving into the 'squish' of the Composer soft limits. I realize that it seems like it should all just work but it needs to be handled in a very specific way. The best I can say for you now if you want to use the Unity Third Person Controller is to turn off the Composer damping.

    Good news though - we have just integrated Free-Look into the updated version of Cinemachine which works with the new Unity Timeline (and those two together are just awesome) and will be releasing them very very shortly. I hope to get them out next week. Free-Look has way more control and sophistication over Third Person Controller, so you'll be much happier.

    I'll make a post on the forum here once Free-Look is out.
     
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  43. 00christian00

    00christian00

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    Cinemachine is using OnGui even on the final build, please add some conditional compilation to use it only on the editor as OnGui generate a lot of garbage by allocating every frame.
     
  44. pixelsteam

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    @Adam_Myhill
    Any news on when Reactor will be coming? My flight sim is getting closer to needing it...thx
     
  45. Adam_Myhill

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    We only do allocations if the Cinemachine Debugger is on. Try turning that off - Preferences - >Cinemachine
     
  46. Adam_Myhill

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    Reactor is up next after Free-look (almost done!) and Cloud. It is a big one though, so it could easily be a few weeks out...
     
  47. pixelsteam

    pixelsteam

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    May 1, 2009
    Posts:
    924
    Thanks Adam, we are going to KIckstarter March 1, so we will roll in Reactor just before our KS release.
     
  48. 00christian00

    00christian00

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Posts:
    818
    It was already off. I am not saying you are allocating, you are using OnGUI and OnGui do allocate.
     
    laurentlavigne likes this.
  49. Adam_Myhill

    Adam_Myhill

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Posts:
    337
    Yes, got it and you're correct We will fix this in our next release - CM + Timeline + Free-Look, which is in final testing now, so 'coming very soon'
     
  50. AFrisby

    AFrisby

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Posts:
    213
    Hey @Adam_Myhill - is it safe for us to integrate this upcoming CM release into a developer toolchain?
     
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