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Chrome Blocking NPAPI

Discussion in 'Editor & General Support' started by wynwar, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. wynwar

    wynwar

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  2. Graham-Dunnett

    Graham-Dunnett

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    It won't affect any developer for probably the next 12-14 months. After that time, our current NPAPI plugin will stop working in Chrome. By that time Unity should have a solution. :)
     
  3. andyz

    andyz

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  4. root8888

    root8888

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    Has any progress been made on this? I would like to pitch a project at work that would take about 12-14 months to develop. I'm a little nervous.
     
  5. Schubkraft

    Schubkraft

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    As soon as we are ready to there'll be a blog about our plans.

    And as you can imagine we have a big interest in keeping our games running on the web but I can not give you any advice on how to assess the risk for your project under these circumstances.
     
  6. korinVR

    korinVR

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    Apparently Chrome 32 is already blocking Unity Web Player.

    I know it's very difficult to migrating to WebGL or PPAPI, and don't like the way browser vendors are doing, but looks like we don't have enough time. If possible, I'd like to hear your future plans and risks a bit.

    I feel Unity should not have dropped Flash Player export, but (probably) it's too late to say.
     
  7. jcarpay

    jcarpay

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    Is seems Chrome V32 is asking for permission to run the Unity webplayer on a per site basis.
    In my opinion Unity HQ has dropped the ball here. Phasing out Flash prematurely, being vague about the (webplayer) future plans.
    I REALLY would like have some more info about the path and timeline Unity HQ has planned regarding solving this huge issue.

    Edit:
    Chrome NPAPI deprecation guide: http://www.chromium.org/developers/npapi-deprecation
    It seems that from mid 2014 the NPAPI blocking will be more aggressive with complete removal of NPAPI support by the end of 2014. The fun part is that the Chrome built in Flash plugin is unaffected...
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  8. Graham-Dunnett

    Graham-Dunnett

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    We are obviously working on a fix and will announce our solution when we are ready.
     
  9. jcarpay

    jcarpay

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    With all due respect, your response is pretty much meaningless and doesn't help dealing with the current situation.

    There has been talk about an alternative webplayer since the "Sunsetting Flash" blog:
    "Work is also underway behind the scenes on an exciting new Unity web publishing initiative that we can’t wait to tell you about. We’ll be providing more details of this soon."

    Please take note of the word "soon". That blog has been published 8 months ago! I think it's absolutely reasonable to provide us with more info, especially now with Chrome moving fast.
     
  10. Graham-Dunnett

    Graham-Dunnett

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    Sorry jcarpay. I won't contribute here and annoy you again.
     
  11. korinVR

    korinVR

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    I don't have any critical projects at the moment, but I can observe some major companies are preparing browser games made with Unity (e.g. http://www.4gamer.net/games/242/G024279/20131220043/ (Japanese)). Without disclosing information, I worry their business might crash.

    Again, I understand how difficult the current situation is because I'm also struggling with migration to HTML5. I know very well WebGL, Web Audio, Emscripten, asm.js and so on are far from ready for games.

    But I must say I feel Unity should disclose something ASAP.
     
  12. jonmalave_

    jonmalave_

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    +1 to this! PLEASE UNITY... you guys can't keep us in the dark like this...

    I just posted about this in Gossip asking for an update:
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/222999-Any-News-on-Unity-Webplayer

    but i did a search after for and found this thread, I really hope we can get a heads up as to the possible working solution soon. I am highly affected by this... :mad:
     
  13. jonmalave_

    jonmalave_

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    Won't be affected for the next 12-14 ??? you sure about that??

    Chrome is already blocking Unity!!

    https://support.google.com/chrome/an...ed_plugin&rd=1

    What happen to the damn White-listing? So much for that... Unity the clock is ticking what are you guys doing about this?
     
  14. bluescrn

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    My guess would be that Unity will eventually support HTML5.

    But I'd also predict that it'll come with more problems and less performance than the old Flash exporter... (At least Flash behaves pretty across all supported between browsers...)

    Maybe by the time it happens, HTML5 will be a fair bit more mature - but it's still going to mean that the engine is running in some form of Javascript, rather than nice fast native code...

    Alternatively, maybe PNaCl will take off. But it seems like HTML5 has far more momentum, despite it's fundamental flaws that make it a poor choice for high-performance games.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  15. jonmalave_

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    But what will HTML5 do for us as far as 3D is concerned? HTML5 Great for 2D Games sure, but what about 3D? Maybe you were also referring to WebGL as Part of HTML5 not sure, either way WebGL so damn slooooow! I feel like we are going backwards here instead of forward...

    my greatest hope is that Unity Webplayer would become a standard, and run Native on all Browsers, but I have no clue if that's even possible and or what it would take to achieve that.

    but in this momemnt what i really wish is that Unity stop ignoring threads likes these and at least give us loyal customers and slight hint as to whether or not they will have a solution for us or not. Their lack of response is really costing me tons of time and money right now... trying to determine if i should invest in taking my current project to Desktop Platform instead of the Browser which i intended to do exclusively, but now I have no clue what to do... I am sure I am not the only one, and if there are other out there i wish you'd all speak up on this thread and make some noise! because we need some answers ASAP!
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  16. jcarpay

    jcarpay

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    Totally agree.
    Obviously, Graham Dunnett has been instructed from higher levels to remain silent regarding this issue. The lack of info just keeps me thinking they're still a long way from providing a solution. I hope they realize this is an unfortunate situation they've created themselves and find a way to inform us properly.
     
  17. gryff

    gryff

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    A couple of days ago I downloaded and installed the "Nightly Build" of Firefox***. It checked to see what plugins I had installed in my current version of Firefox (26) to see if there are any incompatibilties - and I have the Unity plugin installed which the "Nightly Build" recognised. However, when I try to view a Unity containing web page, I have to go through a two step process to activate it the Unity plugin - see the image below.

    Now, as I said it knows that I have the Unity plugin installed in my regular version of Firefox, how much more complicated does it get if you have to install the plugin as well?

    When I checked my plugins, apart from the Shockwave plugin, all the plugins are disabled with a dropdown box saying "Ask to Activate".

    The "Nightly Build" has the "Australis" interface - see the way the tabs are displayed and the arrangement of icons. From what I can gather this is likely to be released in March 2014

    I would suggest it is not going to be just a Chrome problem

    cheers, gryff :)

    *** I downloaded the "Nightly Build" of FireFox to try an run the Unreal/Mozzilla HTML5 demo of Epic: Citadel - which I still cannot get to work :(
     

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  18. aiab_animech

    aiab_animech

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    At my company, the whole deal with Chrome dropping NPAPI support has been the major hot topic for discussion the last months. We build business applications using Unity, and in a large majority of the cases this means our applications are integrated into a web environment somehow. For example a product configurator with a visualizer created in Unity. One-to-One communication and integration with the web page is thus a requirement for us being able to use Unity.

    I've been trying to "guess" what Unity is planning to do, and one of my greatest fears is that they will soon announce the "Unity App Store", as an extension of the Unity Asset Store. Think something similar to Steam, Origin or Uplay; and when Unity-links are clicked on the web they use URL protocols (something like "unityapp:company.application.version") to download/open the Unity-application as an app inside the "Unity App Store".

    I really hope this isn't the approach they are taking, because this approach would mean that Unity is no longer an option for B2B-cases, where such a background application would never be allowed or accepted, and also not being able to fully integrate Unity applications into web environments would drastically reduce the usefulness of Unity.
     
  19. jcarpay

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    Hopefully your guess won't meet reality. That would be devastating indeed.
     
  20. Graham-Dunnett

    Graham-Dunnett

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    Not at all. Unity isn't hierarchical in that way. I'm pretty well connected with lots of areas of the company, and, as of right now, there's nothing to tell you guys. But I know that'll only p*** you off, so sorry about that. (And, I think it was you encouraged me to say nothing.)
     
  21. Dantus

    Dantus

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    For others like me, it is already extremely helpful to know that Unity is still working on a solution. Of course it would be nice to have more information, but I understand that Unity doesn't share them anymore. Knowing that Unity won't drop it is already helpful. So, thanks for that information!
     
  22. jcarpay

    jcarpay

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    I think there's a lot to tell. What about the new web initiatives David Helgason was talking about 8 months ago? He said we would be provided with details soon. Still waiting for those details. Are you telling during those 8 months nothing has happened that's worth talking about?
    Also, I'm not sure I what way I encouraged you to say nothing. As a customer I simply asked for more info, what's wrong with that?
     
  23. Dantus

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    Unity had some bad experience in the past when they shared more information. They published a roadmap once and clearly stated that this is what they would like to achieve, but they could not promise anything. As certain goals they had could not be reached in time, many of the community kind of freak out here in the forum. It was really a bad experience for Unity. There were many really loud complainers. Unity never officially stated that this is the reason why they don't publish roadmaps anymore as far as I know, but I am pretty sure this is the cause.
    Now you just hear some vague information from time to time like the one from David Helgason you stated. They only share information when certain new features will enter alpha pretty soon, but sometimes not even that.

    I don't like that kind of communication, because it sucks. But unfortunately I understand why they are doing it and if I were in that situation I would probably do the same.
     
  24. idunlop_oefun

    idunlop_oefun

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    You have customers that have paid money and expect the software to run in the Chrome web browser (myself being one of them). You have also stated that Unity is working on fix. You've also stated that you are "well connected with lots of areas of the company", so please post the following information and hopefully we can come closer to some sort of resolution on this topic.

    1. What is the current progress on the fix?
    2. What is your ETA for the fix being completed.

    This is reasonable information to request and *very* reasonable information to expect. It would help *a lot* with future planning and expectations.
     
  25. soloneer

    soloneer

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    I can understand that from a future feature point of view but this at the moment is more about simply making it work at all with the current Chrome browser. Not a new feature as such but a genuine bug fix or workaround. Something that used to work that now no longer does, doesn't need to be related to their future roadmap, just help us know it's going to be fixed. All our projects for customers are web based so this is a pretty big thing to get sorted as far as I can see.
     
  26. Dantus

    Dantus

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    I heavily depend on the web player as well, be it the actual web player or (P)NaCl for Chrome. Even if I am pretty sure that something is coming, it is a huge insecurity from a commercial point of view. It was just my intention give other people a little more background why Unity isn't that open anymore.
    It is absolutely critical for me to get more information on that topic, too! Especially now that this huge blocking took place. But I strongly believe it is not helpful for anyone to revolt here in the forum. As it just became a really hot topic, I agree with you that it is not anymore about future development, but a critical commercial topic for many!
    At least we know Unity is working on a solution. It would certainly be better to have more valuable information. Especially because working on a solution doesn't actually mean it can be realized and is practically relevant.
     
  27. jcarpay

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    Of course people are upset. It's not reasonable to expect you can satisfy, especially when things are start breaking down, your customers just by saying "we are working a fix", without giving any details whatsoever.

    Remember this web thing is not a recent event. David Helgason told us 8 months ago that he couldn't wait providing us with more details about the new web initiative they're working on.

    No matter the background, this - keeping silent - strategy is pretty poor to say at the least. It would be nice if David could step in here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  28. aiab_animech

    aiab_animech

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    It actually seems like we are going to lose a really big deal we have been trying to land the last 6 months. The application is a big project, and the plan was to have it finished around sept/oct this year. But the customer just isn't comfortable going with our solution (that uses Unity) at the current state. They have no guarantees that this application (which will be integrated deeply with their website / web commerce) will even work for half their customer base a couple of months after the release.

    This total silence and lack of any kind of information is truly bad style.
     
  29. jonmalave_

    jonmalave_

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    I feel your pain Horp1, I'm currently working on two major projects (my own projects) one that should be published to Unity Asset Store and a Browser Game meant to help me earn some revenue in the coming months, but now it seems I'll need to hold back on one the Unity Asset Project to Invest more Time and Money into Preparing my Game to be Multi-Platform, while this may be a blessing in disguise that forced me to go Multi-Platform, I now need to invest more of my own money to secure my initial investment from failing all together because it was meant to be an exclusive Browser based Game. Without any further information from Unity on their upcoming plans or potential solution to address this issue, it's costing me a hell of alot more than I expected or budgeted for...
     
  30. NLSC-E-MS

    NLSC-E-MS

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    I'm in a similar position but slightly more lucky.

    We're producing eLearning courses and our current LMS doesn't support Chrome so the problem is in the LMS camp. But as soon as they fix it I'm at the mercy of Unity/Google... this is not good.

    I'm certain they are working as hard as they can, maybe even going the Pepper route (which is a huge undertaking) but it would be good to know seeing we are now less than 10 months before "End of Support".

    They need to understand that even if they have a solution implemented in 6 months, WE as an organisation, won't be able to implement it before the deadline. Trust towards Unity's enterprise-level support will definitely be affected.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
  31. jcarpay

    jcarpay

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    I'm not sure if effective on the latest stable releases already, but Firefox will likely follow the same route:
    https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2013/09/24/plugin-activation-in-firefox/
     
  32. NLSC-E-MS

    NLSC-E-MS

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    A click-to-activate solution isn't a problem, as long as the plugins can still exist in the browser. What worries me about the blog post is the ending, they are definitely thinking of following Chrome. The good news is that Mozilla is... slower... to do unilateral changes to their browser and piss of their 'remaining' customers than Google is presently. I see them supporting NPAPI long enough to give Unity time to develop a solution, much longer than Google.

    Also, because Mozilla doesn't want anything to do with Pepper, they have yet to present valid alternative to more complex plugins. I really don't care that you can read PDF files with JS and vectorial animations with HTML5... woopidoda big deal. It's like comparing notepad capabilities to the entire Adobe CS line of product, it's not even in the same ballpark or planet.
     
  33. jonmalave_

    jonmalave_

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    ++1
     
  34. kaz2057

    kaz2057

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    Any new releated to this issue?
     
  35. BooBi

    BooBi

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    Any input from Unity? I'm in the same situation, two majors webplayer based projects to be started/released and the clients aren't really enthusiastic about these webplayer issues.
    I'm sure that the Unity guys are working hard on this, but any input on the progress or any wide time scale?

    Thanks a lot for your hard work!
     
  36. andyz

    andyz

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    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  37. jonmalave_

    jonmalave_

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    Nope we are still left in the dark about this issue, and it does not help one bit that web player doesn't even load currently if someone visits your web player page from an external link, and Google has done nothing about it...

    Unity, come on guys! Seriously... we need some update on this already at least give us some hope about what is potentially coming to help us all!

    PLEASE!!!! Honestly as your Customers and Users of your Engine we should not be kept in the dark like this for so long, it's really starting to get ridiculous at this point...

    Just saying that Unity working on something doesn't help us prepare for whats to come.... do we just drop all our projects aimed at the Browser Now? should we just give up hope on Unity Engine being able to Support us in Browser anymore? COME ON GIVE US SOME ANSWERS! This is just ridiculous at this point...
     
  38. dle5751

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  39. jonmalave_

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    thanks dle5751 but I find it so odd that someone over at Unity couldn't even take a minute to come on to the forums, or maybe write blog post and confirm with us all that have concerns that they would be sharing some details about Unity on the Web at GDC. Although I did get a hint from Graham in a PM that maybe Unity would have some info for us then, but it would be really nice if there was a public official announcement about this.

    But anyway, i'm glad to see this link dle5751

    my question now is... how soon will Unity provide the rest of us who can't make it to GDC with some video footage, or the presentation of Deploying Unity to the Web, Now and Future? or will their be a Live Streaming at all?
     
  40. NLSC-E-MS

    NLSC-E-MS

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    Good find dle5751,

    At least we now have a date for the announcement. Can't wait to see how it develops.

    Normally, the slides for GDC presentations get leaked pretty fast after the event. At the very least they will now be able to talk freely about it on the forums.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  41. jonmalave_

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  42. kintz_09

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    So is WebGL Unity's solution to web browser abandonment of NPAPI? Do you think the WebGL add on will work with all the features of Unity 4 now? It'd be a shame to think the WebGl add on is our solution to our plugin issues and then find out the WebGL early access add-on doesn't support a feature that our project requires.
     
  43. Augality

    Augality

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    Hi Graham

    So is WebGL the answer to the NPAPI problem for Chrome? Or are they still working on a solution to make Unity Webplayer work? And will this be available when Chrome fully stops support of NPAPI?
     
  44. JJ_Glyph

    JJ_Glyph

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    Is there any news on what Unity will be doing for this? \\

    Our business is actually struggling with the same thing, except for Java applets. We've been thinking about developing our product in NaCl but that is a pretty big undertaking for us.

    I can understand why Chrome is doing it. NPAPI is an absolutely horrible piece of tech lingering around since the 90's.
     
  45. jonmalave_

    jonmalave_

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    Unity has already released WebGL Support as part of Unity 5 found here:
    http://unity3d.com/unity/beta/5.0?utm_source=unity3d&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=unity_5_beta

    But you can only Download and Use it if you are a Pre-Order Customer of Unity 5 PRO I believe.
     
    Graham-Dunnett likes this.