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Chargebacks, way to steal assets or a way to steal money?

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by Ravel, Jun 11, 2015.

  1. Ravel

    Ravel

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    First of all, why are there chargebacks??? And why can customers, who get their money back, get access to the products for free? Do they actually get the money back or does unity asset store steal the money from us???
     
  2. Ravel

    Ravel

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    Just got confirmed, that a client has not got his money back. From his side everything is ok, so as far as I can see money just "vanishes" from us who encounter "chargebacks". Sounds pretty suspicious and I think we all deserve to know the truth behind "chargebacks" why does such a dubious feature even exist?

    The sellers rights are far from protected, when somebody can just take money when he/she decides to do so and hide it with a "chargeback" which does not even sound as a legal term...

    I know the asset store can do what they want with its content, but this is just plain rude in all ways possible!
    I'm waiting for the Staff to respond publicly ASAP!
     
  3. Tiny-Tree

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    well asset store exist since many years lot of people including me had refund and the process was all smooth, so maybe before claiming things like these, do some researches, if it never happen its maybe that you missed a point like it takes few day for customer to get money back after your request, money takes time to travel as its not an automated process.
     
  4. Ravel

    Ravel

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    Thats definitely not the case, because everything I have googled is telling another story. And I have been waiting for a month now. I am pretty frustrated on things like this. The customer itself has sent me a document showing that the purchase was successful and he has access to the product. I am the one who sees that there is a chargeback and this is what a Employe of Unity has said about chargebacks in another thread:

    Just to clarify, a chargeback is a result of a financial institution reporting that the transaction cant be processed because of a fraudulent source (i.e. someone purchased your asset with a stolen credit card). However, these take some time to be registered which is why you are just now getting a chargeback from before you changed your price.
    This is not my case because the customer confirmed that everything is ok in his side and he has done other purchases aswell without a problem. Now I'm the one who has to act to get my money back from the so called "chargeback". If this is a problem of the system, then I'm sure its recommended to rewrite the system or disable the "chargebacks". Its unfair in sellers perspective! It's my hard work.
     
  5. Archania

    Archania

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    How about emailing the asset store asking what is going on instead of a rant? Since you said it has been a month and all you have done is make this post and do a google search.
    If this is resolved and it was an easy mistake then this whole thread is a wash.
     
  6. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

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    May not be truthful. Sometimes people who steal also lie. The only reason for a chargeback is because fraud is detected.
     
  7. rosor

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    Chargebacks are processed differently that refund. A chargeback is processed if the purchased was made with a stolen credit card or if the purchase was made twice. Refunds cannot happen without prior approval from the publisher and usually need to be handled within 15 days after purchase. If the asset has never been downloaded ( you can check that out on your back end) then the customer is totally entitled to a refund since he never used the asset.
    Also, regarding chargebacks, then are not processed on a daily basis, means sometimes you can have suddenly 3 or 4 chargebacks in the month...
    Some publishers, had so many, that they were negative...
     
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  8. KarelA

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    Not true in this case. I am the customer and since i was the only one who bought the asset at that month the chargeback has to be tied with my purchase. I hope it gets resolved soon. Not a good situation to be in.
     
  9. opsive

    opsive

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    Chargebacks aren't necessarily applied the same month that the customer purchased it. I've had chargebacks occur a couple of months after the original sale (I know this because the chargeback was for the price of the asset back then).
     
  10. KarelA

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    Good to know. Thank you for your input.
     
  11. IanStanbridge

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    I am confused KarelA what are you saying happened ? Did you simply ask your bank for a chargeback. Or did you ask either the publisher or unity for a refund and then they instigated it as a chargeback ?

    Chargebacks are only meant to be used to refund money in the case of stolen credit cards or if a company made an automated charge to a credit card by mistake or an unwantted auto payment . Banks also usually charge a fee on top of the transaction to the seller to instigate a chargeback.

    Technically it's fraud if you receive the product and then just issue a chargeback on a product you knowingly purchased.

    Is that what you are saying happened or did you contact unity and they instigated it on your behalf ?

    As someone who both purchases assets and is thinking of selling some on the store I would like to know how the refund process works ?

    Can you for example still download that asset from the asset store or has it been removed from your account ? Who pays the chargeback fee ? Is it unity , the seller or the customer ?
     
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  12. KarelA

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    I did not ask for anything back. In fact i am very happy with the product. Currently the best car physics out there in my opinion.

    I bought the asset. 3 weeks later the asset seller contacted me (we know each other personally and he was aware that i made the purchase) and told that Unity has initiated the chargeback. Since i was the only one who bought that asset at that month we thought that the chargeback has to be connected with my purchase. Googling about the issue addded even more confusion because everyone is telling that chargeback == fraud. And i am not a thief. The card was my own and i have been using it for years to purchase stuff from the assetstore. I contacted the support and they promised to investigate this.

    But like opsive already mentioned before that this chargeback may not apply to the same month. So my purchase and the chargeback at the same month could have been a nasty coincidence.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention. I can still download the asset. As far as asset store is concerned i legally own the license for that asset.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
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  13. theANMATOR2b

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    Sounds like the chargeback was from a previous month purchase.
    Hope this gets worked out for the asset publisher and thanks KarelA for clarifying on the legit purchaser side.
    Please update when Unity clears up the confusion.
     
  14. Ravel

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    Seems like there is a black hole in Unity's "finance department" Because me and my client are getting really confusing feedback from the support. Now they are telling that the chargebacks are controleld by the bank... Things are getting really fishy. I will update this thread when I get some more information.
     
  15. outtoplay

    outtoplay

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    The most fun thing about charge backs is the full 100% is charged back... yet, UT keeps it's 30%. So the seller ends up getting charged 30% more than he earned. Awesome...:D
     
  16. Ravel

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    I think we have to unite and do something about these chargebacks, for me it seems like there are frauds in the finance department, who will just take some money from their own little bank, the asset store it is.

    I do really hope that this is not the case, it would be a shame if such a great product has ... I don't know even how to express myself anymore...
    Let's wait and see.
     
  17. nasos_333

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    Is this true ? How do they keep 30% when there is nothing sold ?

    I have not noticed this, i must check it out in my chargebacks.
     
  18. Ravel

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    I have to let you guys know, that nothing has changed, Unity's support is quiet and they don't do anything about it. I'd suggest other publishers to sell assets outside of asset store, to avoid those nasty chargebacks that actually dont have a legal background as we now can clearly see. The chargebacks are obviously related directly to the finance department of Unity. If anyone from unity's support has something to say, then I'd love to see what they have to say about this. As would all the other publishers like to know, what the heck is going on behind the magical curtains of the Asset Store.
     
  19. LaneFox

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    While I am curious and think this merits an official answer, angrily ranting with bold, underlined text does not make you appear more professional or serious.
     
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  20. Ravel

    Ravel

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    You're, right, but put yourself in my position. I doubt you'd be very happy loosing funds, and the only thing you can do is to express yourself somehow, at least this is how I see things. It's not about being professional, it's about proving the point. I'm angry and I have a reason to be so.
     
  21. Dharma_raj

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    Can anyone explain what this means?
    chargeback.jpg
    Unity states that
    "Failure to provide adequate support for Provider's Assets may result in low Asset ratings, less prominent Asset exposure, low sales and billing disputes. In the event of disputes for Assets sold for less than 50 USD, Unity may at Provider's expense decide that the full purchase price shall be refunded to the Customer and charged back in full to the Provider, in addition to any handling fees charged by the Payment Processor. Chargeback requests for Assets sold at 50 USD or more will be handled in accordance with the Payment Processor's standard policy."
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  22. theANMATOR2b

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    Sounds to me like this is the same as when someone writes a bad check. The bank usually charges a bad check fee - on top of the place of business that charges a bad check fee.

    Everything else is self explanatory.
     
  23. Devision4

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    I demanded a charge back from a asset which contains stolen intellect property. I purchased the asset since it stated that it could use in commercial products. Later I found out that the asset contains mostly stolen stuff from other companies. Therefore I could not use the asset as I wanted and I demanded the 80 USD back.

    Unity first did not comply which my charge back. I had to go via paypal and escalate a case. After 1 month I got the money back and deleted the asset.
     
  24. nbg_yalta

    nbg_yalta

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    Got 7 chargebacks in this month and almost all of them appeared today at one time... Lost my 60 bucks, this is really disappointing and not funny!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  25. rosor

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    Got a few as well. Whats annoying is that there is not possibility to know if thsee specific packages have been downloaded. People can do that, download real quick and then back up the files on their HDD... as a result unity didn't lose anything, but we, publishers have someone potentially using our assets illegally...
    Would love to know if the packages have been downloaded and the date of purchase...
     
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  26. nasos_333

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    Indeed, extra clarity would be great in this matter
     
  27. pzUH

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    Lost something about $300 today. XD
    I've experience with chargebacks/fraud purchases at another marketplaces. But this one is the massive one, and happened in a single day.
     
  28. Kubold

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    Got 5 today, that's - $310.

    If this is because of someone bought them with illegal means, then I'm ok with giving the money back and "cancelling" the purchase.

    What I'm not really ok with, is that Unity charges me full price, and not just 70%. In plain words, what happened is, we (Unity and I) took stolen money. We split it 30/70. But when fraud was detected, Unity kept their 30% of stolen money, and charged me 30% extra. That is just wrong.

    Also, I already paid taxes for this fraud purchases, so I loose even more. In pure theory, if I sold just 1 package for $100, I would have:

    Net: $70
    After taxes: $56

    And then 3 months later I get a chargeback, so -$100.

    I end up with:

    -$44.

    Unity still ends up with +$30. Or am I wrong? Does negative account balance still get divided 70/30?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
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  29. nasos_333

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    I got a chargeback today for $90 and got $0 in gross after that. The modifier is on the gross, so if for example i had a -90$ from the previous month, this would be cancelled with a new $90 sale i think, so would not be a loss.

    The taxes is another matter of course, but if you pay these annually it will still be subtracted from the overall amount earned which would have the previous amount subtracted as well, so you would not declare the summation of the two and be taxed only on the actual earnings.

    At least i hope it is that way on both the two above accounts :)
     
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  30. Trinary

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    According to the screenshot posted above refunds are taken out of gross earnings (i.e. earnings before the 70/30 split), and it is the same amount that was added to gross earnings earlier. So the same amount is subtracted as was added. Unity does not come out ahead. Indeed, if there are any fees associated with the chargeback then it seems that Unity does not pass those on to the seller, so it is quite possible that Unity loses money for chargebacks while sellers break even.

    As for taxes, chargebacks and refunds should be deducted from gross income (like above). Just like with the asset store split above, you should only be paying taxes on money you receive. If you use "gross income" and "net income" properly then anything that was billed and then charged back shouldn't even appear on the gross balance that you report for taxes.
     
  31. Player7

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    so let me get this right..

    1.Customer buys asset from Unity Asset Store, money handled by Unity accounts.
    2.Unity takes 30% cut
    3.Asset Dev gets sent 70% from Unity (directly after sale? or some time period after?)
    4.Customer(or Bank) does a Chargeback to Unity for whatever reason
    5.Unity remove asset from Customer account, and do Chargeback to Asset Dev for 100% of store price at time of customer purchase? or just the 70% of it?

    I think banks can initiate a chargeback as far back as 3-6 months from a purchase (then again its banks they do whatever the F*** they want anyway, barely follow their 'own rules' and make new ones that suit themselves), and its always the seller that gets screwed I mean fined, unless selling under a business account where you might get protection against chargeback fees. The kind of business accounts Unity probably have for the payment processing?

    Surely Unity should be protecting sellers from this, even if it means delaying payment to Asset Seller incase Unity get a chargeback, they aren't just doing the same to the Asset Seller?
     
  32. Trinary

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    P7, I think your confusion is coming from the fact that Unity doesn't actually take 30% off at the moment of sale. They total up the full balance of all sales and then deposit 70% of that total balance in your paypal account once per month.

    So when an asset is purchased then 100% of the sale cost of the asset is added to your account, and when there's a chargeback then 100% gets deducted. So it all works out, you don't lose money from chargebacks.
     
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  33. Kubold

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    But let's assume, in theory, that in my whole sales history i sold 1 (ONE) pack for $100. I got my $70 and paid $14 taxes (I run a 1 man firm, so I pay taxes every month, not once a year). Now I have $56. I never sold anything again.

    And now, it's 3 months later and I get a chargeback. So my account is -$100 Gross. So is negative balance a -$70 Net?

    Another question - what about the tax I paid? I can't pay negative tax. If my earnings this month are actually -$70, then the tax is still $0. So I loose money.

    In pure theory, if I sell 10 packs for $1000, and it turns out they are all chargebacks, then I'm down not only all the money I earned, but also $140 I paid for taxes. So the guys that bought my packs with stolen credit card, not only now have my assets, but also basically robbed me from real money.
     
  34. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    It's probably stolen credit cards, sometimes these things happen in bursts because, well, stuff got stolen and handed to some idiot who thinks piracy is a crusade of justice, while using a stolen credit card.

    Btw, chargebacks unless you have fraud protection (which incurs a fee if you're charged back or not), you will always lose money from them. The issue here AFAICT is that the transaction is between you and the customer with unity as your agent. Best check up carefully though.

    In the old days when credit card numbers could be generated successfully, it was quite a nightmare for indie developers.
     
  35. Trinary

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    Well that sounds like a question for an accountant.

    My experience as a business owner myself is that you can either file a correction on your previous payments or you can just do it the easy way and continue without filling out extra forms and pay taxes only on money received.

    So to use your numbers, if your account is at $-100 then you will receive $0 and pay taxes on $0. I don't think the asset store will actually take money out of your account, I expect they just won't pay out until there is something to pay. Next month if you make a single $100 sale you will then receive $0 for that month as well and pay $0 in taxes on it, but that will bring your account current, and your taxes will be correct.
     
  36. Kubold

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    Hmm... but this is a guess, that Unity would let my -$100 just be? What if it's -$1000?

    Btw. I just want to say that this is purely hypothetical discussion, the chargebacks are relatively rare and, though unpleasant, it's maybe 1-2% of all sales. So not that bad.