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Can't Find Dedicated People to Help With My Game. Need to Vent For a Sec.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by gamemaster-468, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. gamemaster-468

    gamemaster-468

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    For about a year now, I've been working on a prototype for a 3D Platformer game. This is a project that I've put alot of thought, and effort into. The only problem? Nobody seems to want to help me bring it to life. Let me get the obvious out of the way. I am not a programmer. I'm someone who's more into the actual DESIGN aspect of game development. I've created several animations for this game. I've written out scripts and descriptions on how I feel the levels should play out. But of course, none of that really matters without coding. It's just a bunch of words, and animation files sitting on a computer.

    Back when this project first began, I was lucky enough to find a talented group of people, who were able to give it the jump start that it needed. Together, we were able to create a basic prototype with only a fraction of the basic gameplay mechanics implemented, which you can see here if you're curious.



    Almost all of those team members have become inactive, and ever since I've been unable to find dedicated people to fill their positions. ESPECIALLY on the programming front. This is how the cycle would play out. I'd post a forum post, asking for new members to come on board. Someone would reply within a few hours to a few days. I add them on Skype, get them all set up with the game's files, then after I tell them which feature I'd like them to implement first, they remove me from their contacts, and quit the project a few days later, usually without saying a word. This cycle has repeated with almost every single programmer I've come across, and I have no idea why. No matter what I do, or what I try, this always happens. I know it's hard to find people who will do this type of thing for free, but the fact that the exact same thing has happened with nearly all of these programmers in LITERALLY the exact same way is concerning to me. It makes me think that I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what.

    Basically, I'm completely stuck right now. Like I said, I've put alot of thought into this project. The story, the characters, the levels, all of it. I would absolutely LOVE to get into designing some levels for the game, and see this project truly come to life. But I can't actually DO that, until all of the necessary assets and mechanics that I need have been programmed, and it seems like no one out there wants to truly help me with that. At this point, I'm highly considering possibly moving the project to UE4, since that's more of a visual game creation tool, and relies less on needing to know programming. I'd have to redo alot of stuff from scratch, but at this point, it seems like the only person I can trust to get this project done is myself. But I dunno. Maybe I'm being to harsh. I'm just tired of this project sitting at a stand still with nothing happening. I want to see this project go somewhere. Will that ever actually happen? I guess that's for the future to decide.

    Anyways, I kinda just wanted to vent about that for a little bit. What do you guys think? Am I alone in thinking this? Or maybe I really AM doing something wrong? Who knows? I kinda just wanted to give my two cents on this pesky cycle that I can't seem to break out of. Maybe I'll try a simpiler game project that I've been thinking about doing recently. One that I could mainly do myself. Or maybe I could try joining another game project, and gain some experience that way. Regardless of what I decide to do, thanks for reading this big wall of text that is my thoughts. I hope you got atleast SOME enjoyment out of reading this. XD See you later everyone. :)
     
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  2. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    1. You need to HIRE people, PAY them and preferably cover the whole thing with a contract agreement. Even if you're talking about lunch-money level payment, that'll weed off plenty of candidates.
    2. Before giving someone access to your project, and before paying them, you should request some demo from them, CV/portfolio or something similar. This should be done to weed out overconfident incompetent wannabees.

    UE4 still have steeper learning curve, doesn't have working animation retargeting.... and is less suitable for cartoon rendering. If you feel this way, sure, give UE4 a whirl, but don't put too much faith into it.

    -------

    I think the best idea in your case would be to make a design document, get sketches for characters/locations and start saving up for hiring a proper developer. I'm not 100% sure that this is the right way to do it, that's just my opinion. I don't exactly put much faith into unpaid volunteer-based teams.
     
  3. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    Because you aren't throwing money at them.

    Because you aren't throwing money at them.

    Because you aren't throwing money at them.

    Yes, you aren't spending any money on professionals to build the project you've spent years working on - which is a going to be a complete waste of your time if you aren't going to commit to it or do it all yourself.
     
  4. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    How much are you paying? If you can't hold on to good employees, chances are you aren't paying enough.

    There will still be turnover based on work conditions and life events. But money will reduce those to a manageable level.
     
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  5. Ostwind

    Ostwind

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    Most of your free coders are probably the ones that switch projects every other week when they get bored and finally end up creating threads about looking for a team or starting one for a zombie survival mmo rpg game with GTA 5 style graphics.
     
  6. BIG-BUG

    BIG-BUG

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    I disagree. Judging by your video, the basic mechanics are already there. What I'm missing is a nice map, textures and a background.
    I don't think anyone is willing to invest the time to build the code for a complete game voluntarily without seeing the other parts (e.g. graphics, levels, animation, sound, music) grow as well.
    It is your turn now to build some stuff and show others that you mean business.
     
  7. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Maybe part of the issue is you talk about it being your game filled with your design.

    These others you bring in don't have any part in it really. They are basically just helping you to complete your game. From that angle you have to think what are they getting out of it?

    For that matter would you put your project on hold and volunteer your time to help build someone else's game?

    Odds are many of the people replying are just curious. Maybe they want to see how the game is structured because they want to make a similar game for themselves. That is one possibility.
     
  8. gian-reto-alig

    gian-reto-alig

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    Did you have reflected on how you treat your potential new team members?

    As others have said it, if you want someone to help you build a game, you need to make sure its also THEIR project, not just YOURS.
    And you should not give them ORDERS, but try to give them incentives to work on something. You need substitute the motivation of getting money for following orders with something else.

    First thing to do is soften the orders to suggestions (which you probably already do)... don't tell the programmer "You MUST do things this way!"... instead, tell them how you think the mechanic should work, ask them for their opinion, honestly reflect on it, and find a good compromise (chances are if you add your idea and his idea together, the result is more than the sum of its parts!).

    Then make sure to treat them well. They are the most important part of your project because 1) it is rare to find somebody joining a project for free and actually doing ANY work on it, 2) they have a skillset you obviously lack and are in dire need of, 3) they are not paid to put up with S***.
    Does that mean you put up with everything from them? No. But you should make sure that as long as they do SOME work and contribute, you are expressing your gratitude for it and make them feel good about helping out.

    Last thing about making it also their project: Everyone has ideas. Most of these ideas are not that great. Still, we all rather work on our own ideas than help bring someone elses ideas to life.
    If you want somebody to help you building a project, make sure to include their ideas too. That can sometimes run you into conflicts as some ideas might not go well with others. Fight that fight when it occurs, and make sure to be fair in such cases (it might be that YOUR idea sucks, not the others ideas).
    Also, make sure to make your ideas shine. If you want people to help you build something, you need to sell the project to them first. Yes, you need to do some marketing targeted at potential co-workers. That is exactly what good bosses do when they start a new project with a team. They need to make the team buy into the project first before they can expect them to work on that project with all their energy. In your case, that is even more important. If your potential new programmer is not sold on the project, he will come into it looking for reasons to leave again. And he will find them. There are tons of those in EVERY project on the world. Its only that if you sold the project well to him, he might disregard those reasons to leave immidiatly because he believes that the project is great and can be a success no matter what things could go wrong along the way.


    TL; DR: They are doing something that mostly benefits you in the end. Make sure it is worth their time, and that you are thankful for it!
     
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  9. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    You either need to bring other people in, as equals to you in all aspects, which generally works best with people you somewhat know, or you need to be able to pay people, even if it's lunch money level payments as @neginfinity says. No other way around it.
     
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  10. moonjump

    moonjump

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    Practically everyone I have worked with in video game development has their own ideas. If they making someone else's idea, they want paying. The only exception in likely to be if you have a strong professional track record that is enough to make the chances very good for a big financial success that they will share in.
     
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  11. DanHedges

    DanHedges

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    I think there are several issues you will find on a forum like this if it is where you are trying to find programmers to work on your game.

    The first is that a lot of programmers looking for teams are looking to gain experience, that is why they think they are prepared to work for free.

    this leads to the second issue... they are NOT prepared to work for free. They just did not realise it was an unpaid job until they actually started. They see it as part of their game development hobby, and when it is a hobby interest comes and goes, which does not matter... unless other people are relying on you.

    Thirdly, generally speaking experienced developers expect paying, why wouldn't they? Their skills have a market value. The only time this is not the case is when working on personal "passion projects".

    Personally I have a bit of experience to how this works (as I imagine do some others on here). As someone who codes for a living I know what my skills are worth. For that money I write software, manage a team of developers and deal with deadlines, planning, managing expectations of the business I work for etc.

    When I get home I like to make games, well, perhaps tinker with unity with the aim of completing a game one day is a better way of putting it. BUT the difference is some days I get home and I don't want to write another line of c#, or figure out why something is not behaving how I think it should. The last thing I want is the pressure of deadlines or working on someone else's software for free (and games are just another type of software).

    I guess what I am getting at in a round about way is that unless you have an idea that someone with the required skills feels just as passionately about working on as you do then to get decent programmers you are probably going to have to pay them!

    Or you could just learn to code... ;-)
     
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  12. gian-reto-alig

    gian-reto-alig

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    As much as artists or designers hate this answer... this is one of the best advices an artist or designer working as an Indie without a budget could get.

    Yes, we know its not everyones cup of tea. Yes, it is kinda tough to learn. Yes, it might not be what you are interested in.
    But really, if you are passionate about a project, and have no money to pay a programmer, learning some beginners coding skills might be the best investment in time you have done in a long while.

    As long as you are not trying to create a fully procedurally generated world, or complex combat mechanics, you should be able to limp along with beginners skills. And at some point those beginner skills might be getting more advanced.
     
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  13. moonjump

    moonjump

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    Very true, I was a game designer with years of professional experience at developers large and small. Designing is the part I enjoy, but it is liberating to be able to implement my own ideas.
     
  14. Teila

    Teila

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    Yeah, I once volunteered as a writer for a game that I was really excited about. I was hired as a "community volunteer". That was fine, I had a busy life with 4 kids at home. The team would get these assignments...go research this, come up with some ideas and submit in a week. Then I would get an email..the art team wants it now so it has to be in tonight.

    I also realized everyone else on the team was not called a community volunteer but were actually team members. LOL Yet, I was getting the same assignments and the same deadlines. I wanted to help out when I could, not have a real job with no pay. I could have gotten one of those if I had wanted one. I don't at all fault the developers since I was the one who volunteered, but I guess I just didn't feel valued, whether or not that was true or not. They were all very nice and liked my work.

    So I left...and then realized I was not passionate about their game as I was my own so better to make my own game. :)

    Volunteers have the best of intentions I think, just like I did. But often the fun little project becomes a job and if those volunteers have experience or have had similar paid jobs in the past, they begin to realize that the time invested is not worth it. If they have no experience, then they get bored and move on.

    So if you need experienced people, pay them or offer them a share of the profits or at the very least, make the game "ours" and let them share ideas.

    If you only enjoy the ideas, you won't get far. I am an idea person too...but I learned to model and level design, and do environmental art, write lore, network with others, deal with business management.....because I had to do so. I am fortunate to have programmers and artists on our team. Our team..it is our game, not mine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  15. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

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    As a rookie indie (one who has not finished a game YET) you can't be just "the designer". At minimum you have to be the designer and something else, artist, audio engineer, programmer. Something else that just 'the designer'.
    You mention A LOT you have put a lot of thought and effort into this project - however the people you are bringing on and seeing what you have so far - are looking at 'the design' and saying "OK so what has he done - how is he contributing". Beyond design you need to contribute more - as an indie. I'm guessing - they are seeing you as 'the idea guy' without anything else to contribute.

    Yep - you have 2 options - Buy a visual scripting language (like Playmaker) and use it to overcome your inability to code while developing (or purchasing) assets to populate the world.
    OR learn to code - and create assets, or purchase assets, or pay someone to create unique assets.

    My own opinion as a non-coding artist - Playmaker gives you pretty instant forward progress - although depending upon your grand vision - you may need to de-scope to be able to complete the game. Playmaker won't be the choke point for creating the entire game you want to make - you will be, because of your limited knowledge and experience with the tool.
    On the other hand - learning to code will take longer to get to a competent enough knowledge/skill level to progress with your game, however you will not be limited in ability to create the game you want to create so you won't need to reduce the scope, although you probably should, because it sounds like you've designed a game that requires multiple members to complete. As a one man band it will take much longer to complete. And you will want to scope properly based on time and effort consideration of only you.

    And then there is still the assets that need to be created. Again either learn how to create art, hire someone to do it for you, or purchase assets that can populate the game.
     
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  16. Quingu

    Quingu

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    Telling a designer guy to become a programmer is like telling a sued guy to become a lawyer. It doesn't work.

    @OP:
    I have an idea. In addition to being "The Lead Designer" you should also become "The CEO". It goes like this:

    1. You design the game. (The Lead Designer)
    2. Some little people make it. (Developers)
    3. You sell the game and take all the money. (The CEO)

    Sounds good? ;)
     
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  17. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Learning enough scripting to create the game (or prototype) you want isn't at all the same as becoming a programmer.

    A CEO without the funds to hire staff to manager isn't much of a CEO.
     
  18. moonjump

    moonjump

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    A designer doesn't just come up with a game idea. They have to create logical systems that work together to create gameplay. Programming is putting that into code form. There is more of a crossover of capabilities than is commonly thought.

    Being able to do enough programming to create some compelling gameplay is entirely possible. Don't aim for highly-optimised ninja-level code. Instead, try to make something that works.
     
  19. Quingu

    Quingu

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    Most people who want to be pure designers have very low skills and very high ambition. Most of them don't even have any real designing skills. They only have lots of "cool ideas" which are in fact not so cool at all. They want to tell people what to do like kings when they have really nothing to offer.

    Very few designers are good "system designers". System designers need similar skills to programmers but most guys who want to purely design have absolutely no idea how to build a good system.
     
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  20. Aiursrage2k

    Aiursrage2k

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    Ultimately if its your idea, the other person really isnt going to be that invested in it as you. If your a programmer your best bet is to simply hire an artist and do all the coding yourself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
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  21. Mwsc

    Mwsc

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    This is a semantics argument, but I'll bite.

    If you want to make a clean cut between game design and programming, then programming has to be understood as far more than just typing in code. Programming is designing, factoring, and coding every aspect of the implementation. The game design is everything that is not implementation. For example, the Design of doom is the idea to have a first person shooter, in a given setting, with certain levels and creatures, a certain artistic style, the need to collect keys to open doors, the way deathmatch works, and the nature of the boss fights. Programming for Doom involves engine design and implementation, as well as that for gameplay, AI, and networking.
     
  22. Teila

    Teila

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    I don't code and I am a designer. The difference is that I have the resources to make a game because I have dependable people to code and do art. I also spend at least 8 hours a day working on the game myself, learning to do new things...but not coding.

    So...no matter the idea, until you have a team with at least an artist and a coder, or you hire them, or you learn to use Playmaker and buy art from the asset store....there is no great game, only a vague idea for a game.

    When motivated, we can do amazing things. ;)
     
  23. moonjump

    moonjump

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    Firstly game design is not everything that is not implementation. It is far more than that, just as programming is far more than typing in code. It involves creating and populating levels and implementing many other things. You think the designers of Doom didn't get involved in building those levels, setting values for the creatures, tweaking how deathmatch works, setting up boss fights, etc.?

    But my original point stands. They design logical systems that work together. The requirement for a logical mind in both designing and programming means that the capabilities required for learning to program are likely to be present.
     
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  24. Teila

    Teila

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    I think you are right. I understand code....took a Fortran class way back when...lol. I can read it and understand the flow and the logic. This did not happen overnight, but from hours and hours of pouring over code with my programmers. So while I can't code, I get it enough to make suggestions regarding what I want something to do. The more I am exposed, the better I get.

    My son says I could code if I wanted to do so. And I tell him that I am doing everything else and don't want to ALSO code. lol He can code for me...but he can't do what I do. :)
     
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  25. iamthwee

    iamthwee

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    I just checked some of your youtube videos and was going to say, you're an inspiration, especially those with disabilities.

    I think the mechanics are good, not great, but good. And yes you don't need textures maps if you're just demoing gameplay.

    How much of the project did you do yourself?
     
  26. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    I've worked with some good designers. They are worth their weight in gold.

    Trouble is most people with game ideas are not good designers. Especially if they do not code or draw themselves.

    I used to do volunteer projects. But I've since stopped as I can get paid to do the same stuff.

    One of the biggest reasons for leaving a volunteer project was scope. One notable project went like this.

    "Hi, you are the seventh programmer we've brought on, nobody is committed to this project, we don't know why." - Warning bell one, management is out of touch with workers.

    "We are making an MMORPG. We want seven different races and 52 different character classes. That will take you a couple of days right?" - Warning bell two, management is out of touch with scope.

    "We want anything to be possible. Players can craft any item. Be any class. Go anywhere. Do anything." - Warning bell three, management is out of touch with game design principles.

    What followed was a seven page discussion on should the lizard men use Egyptian or Greeko-Roman architecture.

    Not saying these are issues with the OPs project. But it's worth finding out why people are leaving.
     
  27. gamemaster-468

    gamemaster-468

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    My roles in this project are the animator, writer, and level designer. I try to contribute just as much as everyone else on the team. Being just "the idea guy" is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

    I may look into that. I've had a bit of experience with visual scripting before in UE4, and I actually kinda enjoyed it. There something kinda....relaxing about it. :p I'm aware that it can't create the whole game though, but that's okay. My main goal atm is to get all the basic platforming mechanics implemented into the game, so that I can begin designing some levels. The more complicated parts of the game will come later. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  28. gamemaster-468

    gamemaster-468

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    Well, I'm writing the game's story, which is currently 76 pages long. So there's that. :p I also rigged the character featured in the video, and created every single one of the animations. The rig isn't GREAT, as I'm not that good at it, but it gets the job done. :p I also have some experience in level design, so I would like to contribute to that aswell once all the main mechanics are programmed. Basically, I wanna try to contribute as much to this project as I possibly can. :)
     
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  29. KnightsHouseGames

    KnightsHouseGames

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    That is....possibly one of the worst analogies I've ever seen

    First off, you can sue lawyers, being a defendant and a lawyer are not mutually exclusive roles. But this is far beside the point

    Secondly, if you want to call yourself a designer, but don't know how to do any part of the process yourself, you aren't a designer, you are an "Idea guy", AKA someone who comes on here and has an idea for a "great game" and wants someone to make that game for them without them doing any work themselves.

    A generally good philosphy for being in the position of designer, or any real position of leadership is to never ask someone to do something that you couldn't do yourself. And if you are in a position to be a game designer, that means you need to have at least a basic understanding of every part of the process of making a game, that way you know what kind of work you are asking someone to do when you ask them to do something, and know how to speak their language basically.

    You don't need to be an expert, just have a well rounded knowledge. You don't have to be the expert programmer, just know how to write enough code yourself, so you know how much work goes into writing good code, and so that you can talk to your programmer in terms they understand. You should also probably know how to do art, 2D and 3D yourself, and sound design, so you can be the link between all of these disciplines and bring them all together so you can make a finished product. And if you can get pretty good at all of those things, you can even step in and do those roles yourself when nessessary. And if you get REALLY good, you can do them all yourself Eric Chahi style. But most importantly, your team will respect you, because you'll have an understanding and respect for what they do, and you'll know not to ask them to do anything unreasonable.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  30. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    That's the spirit! Honestly, if you can figure out how to do animations yourself, I think learning a bit of programming should be quite manageable. Also there's visual scripting stuff for Unity too if you really prefer that.


    As to why people leave your projects - volunteering to do unpaid work for someone else would be the first red flag to me. Usually people who are capable and reliable either have projects of their own, or expect to get paid for their work. If someone joins only because they are incredibly bored right that moment they'll be gone as soon as they aren't bored anymore.
    You might have as well posed the question "how do I get random strangers from the internet to work for me for free?", and the answer is "you don't".

    Good luck with your game, I'm sure you can pull this off alone if you set your mind to it.
     
  31. Teila

    Teila

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    Yep, been there, done that. I worked for many years on a project where the scope was way out of whack compared to the resources available. I learned a lot but wouldn't want to experience that again.
     
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  32. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I still think the best idea in your case would be to just hire someone to make mechanics for you.
     
  33. tiggus

    tiggus

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    I had an issue finding a good team too, then Martin_H gave the really good advice that is now my signature. Do what you can yourself, and hire professionals to polish, it is so much more satisfying.
     
  34. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Do you really want to make a game, or would a novel be better?

    Most games don't need that much story. Not games you can do on your own anyway.
     
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  35. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Alternatively, a graphic novel or a comic.

    When you mentioned issue of "lizardmen and their architectural preferences" earlier, I thought that something like that could be more suitable for a book/graphic novel format.
     
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  36. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    The best format for that project was sitting around a table going 'wouldn't it be cool if...' ;)

    Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with games having intricate lore and back story. Its just often becomes cart before the horse stuff with new designers. There is typically no need to worry about the fine details of a civilisation if you don't have the broad strokes together in a prototype.
     
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  37. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

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    This is good. If I may suggest - consider expanding your animator role to be asset developer, concept, modeling, texturing, rigging and animating, in addition to designer.
    This will show others who might be interested you will be contributing 100% effort. Not diminishing animator and design work, but we have to wear multiple hats as indie. Usually artist encompasses the gamut of the asset development process - from concept thru animation into engine setup.
    Yeah 76 pages is beyond what is needed for prototype and demo. If you stopped at 5-10 pages you could have been working on the game for the amount of time it took to detail those other 66 pages. Re-prioritize your efforts. You will find the game starts progressing if you are not compartmentalizing like a AAA studio. You are indie - you gotta do it all - until you can convince someone else to help out. And for that....
    Stop writing and Game Design Doc creating and create a demo (vertical slice). This can be a very good tool to attract other people to the project. They will see it - maybe even play it and some may even say - this is a cool idea - maybe I'll help out.
    But ultimately - you are the only one you can count on until you are in a position to pay people (with a contract in place) to do work for the project. Until then - you are indie. Gotta get fitted for a lot of hats. :)
     
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  38. Aiursrage2k

    Aiursrage2k

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    if story is your forte, if you can write a mean monologue then its a matter of hiring a VA with some basic platforming.
     
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  39. Rombie

    Rombie

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    Have you looked around the assetstore for templates to just reskin with your own animations and art? This might be a better approach if you are having troubles finding someone to develop the mechanics for you.

    Here's a decent solution which might work for your project:

    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/53959
     
  40. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Since you asked? Yeah, you are doing something wrong - operating based on an unrealistic set of expectations. You're working from a fundamental expectation that it's up to someone else to come along and do a bunch of work for you so that you can then do the bits you like. It's not the end of the world, but you do need to re-calibrate your expectations and then plan accordingly.

    Put yourself in the other person's shoes: if you were a programmer who had spent years honing their skill and someone told you about their awesome idea with 76 pages of story already written, would you step in and do programming for them? Consider how many projects people probably want them to "help" with, and the fact that if they're genuinely good at programming then there's a good chance it's also how they pay their bills.

    The same applies to all of the other skills required to make a game, by the way. If you're an artist able to make commercial quality game art, or an experienced composer, or an interactive designer... those skills take a lot of investment to build up. Projects take a long time to complete, so when you're involved in one you want it to be something you're personally invested in or something that's paying your bills.
     
  41. voltage

    voltage

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    If you want it bad enough, you'll do it yourself. You're stunting your own growth.
     
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  42. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    While it's true that playable work has orders of magnitude better chances of attracting help than hopes and dreams have, there's no game that could ever be so cool to make me think "I want to donate hundreds of hours of unpaid and mostly tedious work to this". I think there's no point in getting OP's hopes up that the situation will ever fundamentally change. Imho the best one could hope for is getting crowdfunding which can be exchanged for hired work. But based on what I currently see in the video linked in the first post, I'd estimate the chances of that happening at 0%. If he wants that game to happen, he needs to make it himself, I see no way around that except hiring people.

    Somehow you made me think of a squirrel having Max Payne 3 style monologues.
     
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  43. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

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    Although I know what you mean - there are hundreds of individuals on (small) teams who go without pay initially to develop a concept further - to possibly get funding, or to push to a finished product in the hopes that it will generate a revenue stream.
    And - there are ALL kinds out there who have different tastes.
    I once participated - for a very short time - on an experience (hard to explain) that was a - animal mmo, with no combat. I really didn't get it, the concept or the logic behind why someone thought this was even a good idea, but apparently there was a large following behind a previous game - similar in concept - to drive the desire to recreate a similar game.
    I didn't stick around long, just long enough to complete the tasks outlined - and I wasn't working for free, however from interacting with other team members - it seemed most were not getting paid.

    My suggestion was a little undermining - because going through the process outlined - imo I think OP would reach an important goal as an indie - realizing he is the one who will be performing most/all of the work towards a finished product.
     
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  44. Teila

    Teila

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    Sometimes the story drives the design.

    Nothing wrong with writing the story first. The problem is if you can't move on from there. :)
     
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  45. wccrawford

    wccrawford

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    Reading through the first post, the thought that occurred to me was, "I bet the code is horrifyingly bad." That's what would cause me to act like all the new programmers.

    I'm fine with taking orders, and I'm fine with not setting the features... But bad code is a no-go. My first task would be to fix all the existing code before I could consider starting to write new code. And if it was bad enough, I'd just give up and walk away.

    If I were being paid, it would be a different story, of course. But for free? I'm not likely to put myself through that kind of stress.

    My second thought was that maybe the direction of the game sucked, and I wouldn't want to argue about it. Seeing the demo video, I might have 1 idea of what it's going to be when I signed on, and upon getting the rest of the information, I might realize that it was a losing proposition.

    And finally, the idea of doing tons of work for no pay while others get paid would drive me nuts, and I'd just avoid that. So if I signed on and you said you were going to earn money but I'd get 1% or something, I'd just walk away.

    There are probably other reasons that didn't jump to my mind immediately, but my point is that there is probably something you're saying or doing to demotivate every single one of them before they've coded anything at all. If I were you, I'd turn a hard look on my own stuff before blaming *all* of them.
     
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  46. DanHedges

    DanHedges

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    +1 to this!
     
  47. gamemaster-468

    gamemaster-468

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    The script is for the actual full game. Not the prototype. :p I don't see the prototype version being that complex. At most, I can imagine it having atleast ONE cutscene in it, but other than that, the prototype will mostly serve to show the basic gameplay mechanics, and level designs. The script has remained at 76 pages for a good few months now, since I wanna wait until further gameplay mechanics have been added, or expanded upon before I go any further with the script. After all, anything can change when designing a game. :p
     
  48. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Badly written code, badly documented code, and lack of a version control system for me.
     
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