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Can Game Titles Be a Problem?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by alexanderameye, Aug 5, 2017.

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  1. alexanderameye

    alexanderameye

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    Moderator note
    Thread created from moving posts from another work in progress thread. If anyone wishes to continue discussions it's a general matter. The context is: Can game titles be a problem ?

    ----------------------- snip --------------------------

    Changing your language to please someone is something entirely different than changing your language to not hurt someone.

    I am not saying whether or not he should change the name of the game. He's the creator, it's up to him. If he has chosen a name, he should indeed go for it.

    In this particular context, sure, but don't apply this rule to every aspect of your life.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2017
  2. AlanGameDev

    AlanGameDev

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    I don't care about political correctness, I care about my (potential) customers, and they are always right.

    That name is certainly going to alienate some of your customers and it's hard enough to sell indie games even with everything perfect, let alone with a game that will reduce your potential customer base on the first glance at its name.

    I personally would never click on a link pointing to a game with that name, not because I'm offended or something, but because it sounds like a name a silly teen would come up with, so I wouldn't expect a great game.
     
  3. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I am a retard, and everyone on these forums are retards. We aren't a bright species. Is everyone happy with that? If not, why not?

    From what I can tell with politics and the state of the world, very few people aren't retarded in some form or other. Retard is indeed just a word.

    It's a mark of a retarded species that would fear a word, and even more so knowing that the word is merely data stored on a hard drive, somewhere on the internet, long before you read this post.

    Therefore if you are less retarded, you would not be offended at comments about retards. Much Ado About Nothing.
     
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  4. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I am sympathetic, I'm just pointing out that words really are words and it's quite exhausting trying to encourage mankind to move beyond tribal cat calling being important whatsoever. I'm not bright or good enough to do it, but someday it has to happen for us to progress without metaphysical rules that exist just because someone wishes to inject control via perceived reasoning.
     
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  5. Teila

    Teila

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    The word retard is painful for a reason. At one time disabled people were called retard. It was the word to use to degrade and make them feel less than human. Using that in your game is like using the N word in your game title to people who have loved ones who are disabled.

    Use it if you want but as someone who grew up with a loving cognitively disabled uncle, it hurts me to the core when I see this word. It hurts...nothing to do with politics.

    It really hurts when I see people I respect say it is okay to use that word. Regardless, there are many who will not play your game because of this word.

    Words hurt...and if one thinks it is okay to use words that they know hurt, then it says something about that person. It is like deciding to walk away from a fight rather than to punch someone in the face because you disagree. So easy to do, no skin off your back, and it makes people feel better.
     
  6. Teila

    Teila

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    Ugh...now this really hurts. I think that says more about you than about me....sighs.
     
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  7. AlanGameDev

    AlanGameDev

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    Words shouldn't hurt, what should hurt is the intention behind the words. I assume the word 'retard' here is not meant to offend people, some will get offended nevertheless, but words are just sounds coming out of our mouths (or characters on a computer screen).

    That being said I think people should always strive to be polite and respectful on one side, while people on the other side should not take offense so easily by words spoken in a playful manner with no disrespectful intention whatsoever.

    PS: I'm not saying people who get offended are wrong, we are humans, we attach feelings to things, that's why as a society we need to work around these 'open wounds' (as the N word) until they heal or until we overcome that.
     
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  8. Teila

    Teila

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    Retard is like N to people who have had to deal with the hatred and demeaning attitudes of that word. Originally, many years ago, it was used to define people who had a low IQ. Now it is used against anyone disabled, even those who are physically disabled. It is used to make fun of them, to make them feel inferior.

    Empathy is a huge thing lacking in some people. Words do hurt. As a former foster parent, I can tell you that kids who are physically abused often heal eventually, but kids that are emotionally abused by people using words, often never heal. The impact of words is huge.

    As a teen, I remember hanging out with my uncle who was one year older than me. He loved me and enjoyed showing me off to his friends. Of course, they threw the word 'retard' at him constantly, among other hateful things. He would smile...he was unable to speak, but I would see a sadness in his face. It hurt me too. Someone I loved and horrible people who thought words did not hurt were thoughtlessly treating him like an animal, believing that he did not understand or feel the pain.

    And it never left me either. My mother changed her vote due to such an action by a politician. Words do hurt...and to say they should not is very naive. Dismissing those of us who do feel empathy, and do hurt for others, and ourselves, is unbelievable to me, honestly. It is like saying that our feelings do not matter as much as your right to use a word that hurts others.

    There are so many other words that can be used instead. Is this word really being used to be silly? Or is it for shock value?
     
  9. alexanderameye

    alexanderameye

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    Words do hurt, whether they should or should not is a useless thing to argue about. If you hurt someone with words, and then you say 'but hey, I didn't intend to hurt you', that defense is pretty worthless because the damage is already done. Especially in the context of the internet.

    I'm wondering, what do you think that we should do with the word 'N***'? What exactly do you mean by to work-around words like that? Things like these are just so complex and to be honest I don't have the slightest clue about what we should do about them and I'd love to know your thoughts about this.
     
  10. AlanGameDev

    AlanGameDev

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    I agree with you guys, I was just pointing out that sometimes you also hear nice words that are full of bad intentions behind them, as well as words considered 'bad' used in a playful manner. I'm not saying it's OK to do that, but ultimately the intention is what counts, especially because there are different people and different cultures out there.

    Some Finnish people cuss every other word, and they get along perfectly well in their home country, however, they have problems with other cultures where they're deemed disrespectful because of that. Can you say the Finnish person is wrong since his only 'crime' was being raised in a culture where words don't hold as much meaning as in others? Maybe; but I'd also expect a civilized society to understand that a bit better, as well as I'd expect the Finnish person to make an effort to fit in.
    That is an excellent point, and that's why those words ideally shouldn't be used to communicate with a general audience, your intentions are never clear. I'm not saying it's OK to use the word whatever the answer to that question is, but there's a difference in my opinion.
    The work around is tolerance on both sides... don't threaten to kill somebody when the word slipped out unintentionally, and on the other side try not to use the word since it holds to much emotional value and cause so much impact.

    The 'N' word is a good example on how the same word may offend people profoundly, and may be used colloquially with no disrespectful intention by the very same people, as I'm pretty sure you've witnessed in your daily lives.

    In my opinion we should be concerned about people using words to backup their bad intentions, there are plenty of people like that. We shouldn't spend so much effort with some random stranger who is possibly a good citizen who happened to let a word we consider bad slip out unintentionally or due silliness. Call this later a jerk or idiot, but don't go much beyond that, because using a word with no intention doesn't give you the right to overreact with plenty of bad intentions.

    Regarding this specific thread, I just assume the OP was raised in a culture/family where that word doesn't bear any bad connotation, can you blame them? The problem here is that the OP should use a different language/terminology to communicate with the general public. Not that they are trying to be a jerk or offend people (I assume).
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
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  11. alexanderameye

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    We're ruining OP's thread about his game, but regarding the N-word, the man (the dad) in this video made some very interesting points I think. I like the son a lot and I'd like to share this video with you guys.

     
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  12. Teila

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    No, do not threaten to kill anyone for using words or having a different opinion. :) I think that is pretty much a given. But....I can refuse to buy their game with that title. I can start discussions on blogs, game forums, and twitter to talk about using appropriate words. I can post here and let people know how words do hurt and hope that at least some will will be like you and try to understand, (although won't do so because it might actually draw attention)..

    I do not think the intention of the OP was to offend. But as we always say, ignorance is no excuse. An early response in this thread was to point out the fact that they might want to change the title.

    After that, we got all these "no one can tell me what to do" people who responded. I did not see any understanding in those people's responses that showed me that they really understood the impact of that word. Like them, I have issues with many of the political correctness that has filled our world. But sometimes, it is not just about using the right word for he/she or whether African American should be used instead of black, but about whether a hateful derogatory term with a very shameful history should be used in a game/book/movie title.
     
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  13. hippocoder

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    Humans are trained these days that words can cause harm or will cause harm. The problem with this pervasive ignorance is that it's the same problem in the animal kingdom. It's possible to ruffle feathers and make calls to mislead others in order to further one's own gain.

    The difference is that as a species we need to learn to move beyond that before any concept of world peace is anything more than a fond yearning.

    I do have a turbulent past. So yes, I have been abused. Which makes me an unlikely proponent for the stance I have: "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

    Questions like "am I dying from this?" and "does it have the effect or do I create the effect?" are real questions. And the damage is always caused by those responding. As the words will never stop.

    You can create safe places forever and still there will be pointless teenage deaths through hanging themselves or poisoning themselves or whatever grisly imagining you can muster. They die because we agree that words like retard and N*** matter. They die because we fail to arm them with the alternative from a young age: that words are shapes and sounds to be examined, to be seen as a symptom not a cause.

    Instead they take words SO seriously, that they kill themselves. Because well-meaning people teach them that words matter. That safe spaces are everything. That's not empowerment. That's purposeful regression.

    I guess I'm not so good at explaining things. I must be retarded.
     
  14. Teila

    Teila

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    Again, dismissing other's feelings as "trained".

    I am disappointed and saddened. People kill themselves for many reasons, and most of us have other ways to deal with pain and sadness. To make it simplistic is harmful to many. Suicide is not something to just throw out there as a reason why we should "harden up". My cousin killed himself because the county delayed his medication refills. Many teenage deaths are due to bullying, which is a lot more than words. Or maybe you think those kids are just sissies.

    The wonderful thing about this world is that we have people are beautifully sensitive and those who are empathetic and those who can put their emotions aside to do their job.

    We have teachers, therapists, poets, writers, etc., because people allow themselves to feel and respect the feelings of others.

    I give up on you, sorry. I think that you do not even understand what I am saying. Instead you use shock...yeah right, the word N*** and Retard make people die....sheesh. Using hyberbole to make your point? Instead it looks like justification.

    It is not the word that makes people die. It is constant harassment, constant degradation, chemical disorders, the lack of empathy from others, the constant telling others that their feelings are unimportant. It is the actual dismissing of the pain that sensitive folks or those with cognitive disorders go through by people who think that they should just "be retrained". Ignoring them is what makes them give up. Making them feel like they do not matter.
     
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  15. AlanGameDev

    AlanGameDev

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    And you'd be absolutely right in refusing to buy their game, and starting a civilized and constructive discussion is a great way of contributing to a better society!

    People project their emotions onto others (and even animals), but we should always stop for a second to consider that some people may not see the world as we see. Trying to achieve a compromise here is what's called diplomacy. You have to go with a common denominator what is generally far from your personal view of the world.

    Ignorance is no excuse. However, I'm against 'forbidding' the OP from using whatever words they want to express themselves. Do I agree with them? Absolutely not! But the best we can do is try to convince them, and if we fail at that, as long as they're not hurting anyone, just let them be, some people are irremediable and we have to learn to get along with people we don't agree with.

    That's exactly what I was talking about!

    There's a famous saying that goes like:
    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

    A wise man once said that should actually go like this:
    Do unto others as they would have you do unto them
    And I couldn't agree more.

    I personally wouldn't get offended if a friend came to me and said in a playful manner 'come over here, you retard', but I don't say that to my friends because I don't know if they'd react the same way.

    @Teila I'm sorry for your loss.
     
  16. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    You did not understand anything I wrote, not a single line. I'm sorry for my failure. Or maybe you find it easier to project?

    Regardless, I've said what I feel to be a logical and impartial appraisal - that we're all flawed and that the root cause of the harm won't go away unless we're educated to view things objectively.

    I'll bow out of the thread now. Never intended any distress to anyone.
     
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  17. wetcircuit

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    Maybe if as much effort was spent in learning how not to be a dick as lecturing people about how THEY should think, one wouldn't need to turn around and apologize in their next post? That might save some time.

    In fact, I'd suggest a more apropos name for this game and thread might be "Am I a Dick?" as that seems to be the actual question that is being begged.
     
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  18. Teila

    Teila

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    I do not thing he should be forbidden. :)

    My beef in the majority of my posts are not with the OP. He really did not respond to the post after a couple of initial posts. My guess is he never even thought about the name as it seems he took it from elsewhere.

    My concern is with the rest of the thread.

    To the point, exactly. I admire your way with words. :)
     
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  19. QFSW

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    I'm of a similar opinion of hippo tbh. I feel that words like N*** for example, only have the power they do because we give them it. If nobody made a deal when you say N*** then it would lose its power, it'd just be a meaningless word. It's the intentions behind. If two black people call each other 'nigga's, no feathers are rustled cos the intention is pretty obvious, and it's the intention that counts. If someone called me retarded I wouldn't care, however if someone I knew who was actually disabled in some form I would be very unokay with someone calling them retarded.

    Having said all this, I'd still never use any words like that in a game title. For one thing, as it stands now, the words do have power and do hurt, whether they should or not is a different matter. Secondly, it's just unprofessional
     
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  20. FrankenCreations

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    I got called fat as a child. It was just as demoralizing as when they called me retard or gringo. Was it the word... nope. It was the intent of it. The way it was used not the word itsself. Fat is a pretty common word. It gets used non offensively everyday. "Hey that line is too fat, looks out of place. Skinny it up a bit." Same goes for the word retard. "It's missing slightly I think your timing is off retard the spark a bit" no harm in that. Its not the word that hurts its the insult. You can take any tame word and hurt someone with it. Be a white kid in a black school and snowflake becomes severely derogatory. So the word retard is just a word and in its own right not foul. The way it gets frequently used is offensive.

    As for the game name. That is an offensive use of the word and will alienate potential customers. Is there anything wrong with that is the question. No there's not. Some people enjoy offensive things. I personally really like the most offensive hurtful humor I can find. No wrong in that. As a developer you must know that a large portion will not take it well though. Target your target, if you are going for offensive keep it. If you want to keep from running off a large potential customer base find something less offensive.
     
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  21. Dustin-Horne

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    I haven't read all of the replies, but here is my take. I am generally against the oversensitive politically correct culture, however I think there are exceptions. Some words do carry a really heavy negative connotation. I think if you want to use them, that is your choice but be prepared for the blow back which could be devastating and even career ending.

    Given the specific example, using the word "retard", I think it's a really bad idea. While generally not PC, I would take great offense personally to the use of this word. I think it goes beyond the issue of oversensitivity. Personally, people could call me whatever they wanted because I have a thick skin and I can shrug it off. However, this specific word is used as an insult and in reference to people who have a diminished mental capacity. Often times, and this would be the majority of cases, the people it targets do not have the capacity to understand all of the nuances or to shrug it off. It can be extremely hurtful to those who lack the ability to defend against it because they can't fully comprehend it, other than understanding that it is meant to hurt them.

    So, for that very reason, while I think PC in general has gone too far, this is one of those cases where if I saw the word in a game title, I would not only never purchase it, but I'd actively avoid ever purchasing anything from anyone involved in its making.
     
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  22. neginfinity

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    Yes, if you call your game a "retard simulator", it will definitely negatively affect your sales.

    Once upon a time Rockstar released a game called "Bully". The game is pretty much a school-boy simulator, with a few minigames, some unarmed combat, etc. It is fairly light in tone as well.

    However, because of the title quite a lot of people were angry about the game and roasted it without even playing it. They decided that the game is about bullying and that the protagonist is supposed to bully other kids. Which made them angry.

    With that in mind it makes sense to use your brain and not to go out of your way to piss off maximum number of people possible. People as a whole are not exactly the brightest bunch, the get angry and feel strongly about different things, and even though you can't please everybody, not trying to enrage the people with the game title makes sense.

    If the game contains offensive/controversial content, this probably can boost game sales, especially if said content appears past the point where people can make a refund ("I can't believe they did that thing on level 6! -- I need to check it out"). However an offensive title does not really generate a sale. At least that's the way I see it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  23. FrankenCreations

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    Yes. Unless its your goal to be offensive in the first place. There is room in this world for being offensive just to be offensive. People, not all obviously, do like that. My favorite comedians are in no way suitable for mixed company unless they dont mind offensive things. If I ran across a game called "retard simulator" I would immediately download it.
     
  24. N1warhead

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    My opinion, idc who this offends. But people today, are just plainly too soft and emotional. I mean literally, you got guys who cry because a tree got chopped down, you got females that cry because they couldn't get their hair did. Or you got the people who have sex with Nature (yes really - not a joke), they screw Trees, the dirt, etc.

    stereotype's aren't invented for no reason at all, there's a reason they exist and they exist because the majority of a type of people are exactly what the stereotype is.

    I think it's just me, but I really hardly ever complain about anything whatsoever.... I've lost a child, didn't complain - I was mad and sad (of course), but I didn't complain. Because I realize that things can ALWAYS be worse. I lost one child, but there's people who've lost 3 kids, a husband/wife a mom and dad at the same exact time. There's people who get their heads chopped off, they are real problems that need to be addressed. When you realize these problems exist it makes you finally see that pressing 1 on the phone for English isn't so bad, or that a baker doesn't want to make you a cake because you're gay isn't that bad, I mean who freaking cares, because there's people today that get their families massacred because they decide to leave N. Korea and get caught.

    I really wished people wouldn't complain and be offended by everything, because it's only going to raise a generation of weak individuals who can't think for them selves... When I was a kid, teachers would smack me across the face and I learned not to do whatever it was again and got over it, it didn't make me some weak individual, it made me stronger and appreciate what I have, not a victim.
     
  25. neginfinity

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    I think that's not the issue.
    I think there are a lot of people who LOVE being offended, complaining, bitching about something and having their opinion heard. That's normally called being spoiled.

    As far as a "offending goes", I think as long as you took reasonable amount of care not to purposely enrage the other person, your job is done. If they still find a reason to get angry/upset, that's probably not even your problem anymore.
     
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  26. N1warhead

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    That is true man, didn't even think of that one, thanks for the correction.

    Yeah I tried not too, but at the same time just laid the words out lol.
     
  27. FrankenCreations

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    There are also those of us who cannot be offended and LOVE offensive material. Isn't it just as much our right to hear offensive things as it is others right to hear tolerant soft empathetic feel good chicken soup for the soul drivel.
     
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  28. Dustin-Horne

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    Here's what it boils down to:
    Whether it offends you or doesn't offend you is irrelevant. You have to think and behave differently as a business owner, and if a significant enough portion of your customer base disagrees with your stance or will be offended, you need to account for that. Either decide it's worth the risk or fold to the pressure. Keep in mind that in addition to those who are offended, there are hoards more that are willing to jump onto whatever social justice bandwagon is going around, so you'll get as many "haters" that just want the attention by being part of the cause than you will those who are fighting their own case.
     
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  29. N1warhead

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    @Dustin-Horne : But at the same time, you can use that to your advantage lol... COD Modern Warfare 2 did that... They created a controversial scene where you slaughter everyone in an Airport.. Granted the scene was skippable. But nevertheless it caused some headlines - which resulted in free marketing.
     
  30. EternalAmbiguity

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    I was about to make a post with all of my opinions, but

    Basically this. As a business, you move kind of past morality. Now artistic endeavors like games or books or music obviously have some personal, moral component to them, but one should be able to assess it objectively and determine where they want their product to stand on the curve of "offensiveness" for whatever return that gets.

    Worth pointing out, though, that while yes there are some people ("social justice warriors") who honestly don't care at all about the issue presented and merely use it to stir up drama, there's also a sizable portion of individuals who deliberately attach themselves to offensive things (like the people who blindly praised the Witcher game series when it first came out, calling it "mature") to be "anti-PC."
     
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  31. LaneFox

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    Naming your game 'retard' something something would be retarded.
     
  32. FrankenCreations

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    I would pay good money to own a hard copy of a game called "The Misadventures of Freddy Fat Ass the TurboTard". Even if the art and gameplay was awful it would have to be good for a laugh. I know I keep sayin it but I cant be the only sociopath in the room that finds over the top offensive content hilarious.
     
  33. HolBol

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    I don't personally find it a problem. I don't find it interesting either. That said, many other people will find it a problem, and you should probably consider what you're trying to achieve with that name. Nobody can stop you from keeping the name, but I doubt many would call it a sensible idea.
     
  34. Soul-Challenger

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    Why are people afraid of words?

     
  35. Ryiah

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    We're not. We're afraid of the punches that often follow some of them. :p
     
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  36. Martin_H

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    @Teila & @hippocoder: This is one of the strange situations where I see two people strongly disagree, yet I think both are right in a way. Imho both are needed, more empathy and a different mindset to react to words. They complement each other to converge towards a more harmonic coexistence, whereas the opposite creates a never-ending circle of trolls and offended people.


    For sure!
    http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-to-stay-sane-in-era-non-stop-outrage/


    ...And a ban of the US/UK version of the game in Germany. It's my favorite COD game on the xBox, and I would have bought it again for PC, if I could get a version with english voiceover, but I can only buy the German dubbed version (activation of the US/UK versions require a VPN which is against the TOS of steam). But the German voiceover sounds - as usual for such games - super out of place and cringy to me. So in my case it's a lost sale (albeit only at Steam-sale-price) for them on the bottom line.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
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  37. dogzerx2

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    A word's degree of offense is kind of an intangible thing, subjective. Like a room temperature, is it too hot? Is it cold? It's a matter of coexistence, like an office with a dozen people deciding on how to set the a/c. You're lucky if you can keep everyone happy.

    Regarding PC ... don't like any deal in which others tell what's right or wrong. I like to decide for myself, reserve the right to change my mind, or simply no choosing a side. Sides make people radical, and radical people need others to choose a side, because their heads explode otherwise. It's a terrible thing.

    That's why I'm not into religion, political allegiance, cults in general, and PC. Not because PC is always wrong, just not always right.
     
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  38. mysticfall

    mysticfall

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    I haven't yet read all the other comments in this thread, so please excuse me if I'm just repeating what others have said already.

    Firstly, I agree with those who said that the problem is in an intention, not in a word itself. Although it is true that there are some derogatory terms that were specifically coined to be offensive to certain groups of people, in most other cases, the meaning and connotation of a word changes over time, because a language is after all, a social convention.

    Even such a word like 'Negro' once could be used without any intention of offending African American people. <Guess Who's Coming to Dinner>, for example, is a movie shot in the 1960s which conveys a very strong message against racism. And at the end of the movie, Spencer Tracy - who is a white man, in case you don't know the actor - delivers a touching speech about why people should not be forbidden to love each other, simply because one of them is a 'Negro' while the other is not. Actually, 'black' was considered a more offensive term by many African American people at that time, if I'm not mistaken.

    The same can be said of the term 'retard' also, because the etymology of the word clearly shows that the original usage simply meant something slow. It's only through conventions, and what can be called as 'euphemism treadmill'
    that the word became associated with offensive connotations - actually, 'retard' was once considered a more polite variant for such medical terms like 'moron', 'idiot', and 'imbecile' (and yes, psychologists used such terms once.)

    If someone decides to create a video game called a 'Retard Simulator', it can be justly criticized as being offensive to the people with such a mental condition, not because the word 'retard' is an offensive word regardless of the context, but because it is highly probable that a game with such a title would be depicting those who suffer a cognitive problem as an object of ridicule. And it wouldn't make it any less offensive if the game was called a 'Cognitive Disorder Simulator' instead, as long as the intention is to make fun of the way people with the disorder behave.

    Personally, I try to avoid using such words that can be regarded as offensive to certain group of people. Even if I don't have any intention of being offensive to anyone, I cannot ignore the contemporary evolutions of such words and how they become associated with derogatory connotations that they didn't have originally. So I just try to be on the safe side, and try not to use such terms that are widely considered offensive.

    That being said, I'm quite critical about the trend that people became excessively sensitive about usage of words so that they keep replacing one euphemism with another.

    In my opinion, it only serves to create an illusion that by using a different word, one could actually make a problem less severe. And in that regard, I don't think I can be any more eloquent than George Carlin in one of his comedy sessions which deals with the problem of euphemism. So I'll end this post with a video of that show:

     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
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  39. Teila

    Teila

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    And I am very sad about the trend to use whatever words one wants without any care in the world about how it affects other people.

    Sadly, that trend is really apparent on the internet, where one can remain mostly anonymous. I remember going to a game developer conference last year where one of the speakers told us a story of a talented programmer who went on Twitter and used words that were not at all professional. He used his name. And after that, he had trouble getting any jobs in the industry.

    Oddly enough I have not heard the word 'retard' coming out of the mouth of any person I have been in direct contact over the age of 13.

    So...in person, people do not use these words nearly as much as on the internet. That says something.

    And as for the person who does like anyone telling him what to do...no one is telling you what to do. All that is being done is asking people to be sensitive to others.

    Threads like this just make me sad. I have no need to change people, just make them aware. If they choose to not care, then fine. But...I will always wonder why it is so hard to put a little bit compassion in your hearts for those less fortunate.
     
  40. mysticfall

    mysticfall

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    I believe that is actually the most important thing in this matter, to have compassion for others. If you truly care for the feelings of those who suffer cognitive disorder, for instance, you'd probably be aware that many of whom would feel offended when they heard the word 'retard'.

    So, as I have said above, personally I try not to use such a word, in case it is obvious that it is widely accepted as a derogatory term.

    However, the problem with euphemisms should be considered a separate issue from the matter of having compassion for other people. If, for instance, people begin to use the word 'cat' as a derogatory slur in future for whatever reason, I would probably follow others to avoid uttering the word altogether.

    But that does not mean that I should agree that such a change of meaning is a good thing. I can be sensitive about the issue and feel compassionate for those people who are often offended by the word 'cat', but it does not mean that I cannot also question why in the world we became suddenly compelled to call that lovely creatures as 'felines' rather than as 'cats' as we used to do in the past.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
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  41. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    Goes without saying, there's no absolute truth, rather different recipes for different scenarios as not everyone responds the same way.
    But I would like to add, often there's more than one way to be compassionate. Say you have a friend with some disability, you can treat him differently, be extra-nice extra-careful just so he doesn't have to cope with more than he already does, or treat him like any other of your friends, with the same honest tough-love.

    This has nothing to do with being explicitly mean. We're not talking making fire of the fallen tree. Or team up to isolate and degrade someone.

    But the other side of the coin is, if you treat someone like he's weak, you risk just making that person feel week, and different. You risk mixing up compassion, with pity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  42. Hikiko66

    Hikiko66

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    "Idiot" and "Moron" were initially technical terms related to various severity levels of mental retardation.

    "Idiot" referred to a person with mental retardation that rendered their mind to be the equivalent of an average 3 yr old or less.

    Those terms were used so casually towards people without any mental retardation that their definitions changed.

    Retard, up until fairly recently, was starting to get used quite casually in the same context.
    If this new crack down reduces usage, it will also inject more potency into the word.
     
  43. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    We are ying and yang, male and female. Don't need to agree on something to both have good intentions.

    As a stronger narrative, this is a problem with being left or right politically. Neither understand that's OK to disagree. The google fiasco proves as much. Someone says something and is fired, yet he did nothing but make some text questioning. Sounds sadly familiar, historically. It doesn't matter that we disagree, only that our intentions are progressive and rooted in common sense.

    IMHO words and actions are separate things, and the sooner people are educated on the differences, the better. Because I would rather it not devolve into actions of violence which is surely inevitable as history teaches us. The silenced only have one option remaining.
     
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  44. The-Britain

    The-Britain

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    I'm a constitutionalist, you have the RIGHT to offend people. When you start claiming that some language "hurts" some people, you are on a slippery path to "This language is harmful and should be restricted."

    If you agree, that someone should choose whatever title they want regardless of public opinion, then you would need to append your statement with "someone is something entirely different than changing your language to not hurt someone." You are stating, directly, that some language is harmful, therefore is assault, because that's what intentional harm is, setting a precedent that free speech should be restricted.

    Justice Samuel Alito:

    '[The idea that the government may restrict] speech expressing ideas that offend … strikes at the heart of the First Amendment. Speech that demeans on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, age, disability, or any other similar ground is hateful; but the proudest boast of our free speech jurisprudence is that we protect the freedom to express “the thought that we hate.”'

    If you say there is harmful speech, then you're arguing against this, you're arguing against free speech. If you agree, then there is no harmful speech.

    Wise words.
     
  45. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    This thread has been so far de-railed I cant even tell what it was originally about.

    Lock moderator? @hippocoder
     
  46. The-Britain

    The-Britain

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    "Moderator note
    Thread created from moving posts from another work in progress thread. If anyone wishes to continue discussions it's a general matter. The context is: Can game titles be a problem ?"

    Looks like this is the right thread for this kind of discussion.
     
  47. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    My bad :)
     
  48. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    (yeah sorry about that, it's just I locked someone's wip thread due to discussion that popped up and then unlocked it and moved the discussion to general as to be fair on everyone).
     
  49. RockoDyne

    RockoDyne

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    Do people typically cuss around you? If not, then it's quite likely that people always maintain polite conversation with you. It says more about how people act around you, than it does about how people act normally. Around my normal company retard is pretty common to hear, but so are racist jokes up to and including the use of N***. Hell, retard is hardly an insult these days. If you really want to get at people, just call them autistic.


    At this point you either take everything personally or you take nothing personally. If you start worrying that everything you do will offend someone, you might as well build a compound to cloister yourself from the rest of the world... but then this means you financially impact so many other people who depend on you're involvement with the economy. Ultimately, there is nothing you can do to avoid impacting others, so the best course of action, much like with CO2 and climate change, is simply to kill yourself because your very existence brings about someone else's ruination. Cheerio.

    There's a difference between empathy and sympathy. It's one thing to understand a person with Down's syndrome being called a retard, but it's another to mentally role play a person with Down's syndrome every time you're even in proximity to someone saying retarded. The lack of empathy means the person is either autistic or a monster, while the overabundance of sympathy means you wouldn't be able to get a pilot's license because the instructor would say to retard the throttle.
     
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  50. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    "Now, slowly retard the throttle"
    "I don't think you should call it that!"
    "You do as I say or I will abort this lesson right now"
    "I'll have you know I'm pro-life"
    "Just pull from that damned black control lever, or we're going to die!"
    "I didn't know I was flying with the KKK"
    *crashes*

    The real mood or intention behind the words matters more than the words themselves. That's why it is possible to be passive aggressive.
     
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