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Buy Unity3d pro For $99

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by brendonvdm, Aug 29, 2011.

?

Would you buy unity3d if it coted only $99

  1. Definite Yes

    54.2%
  2. Definite No

    45.8%
Thread Status:
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  1. echologin

    echologin

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    What it boils down to, if you cant make a sellable game with the free version or iphone basic ( which has all you need really), a few extra features are not going to help you.

    I often thought i should be able to buy a castle for 99 dollars because i got a group of people on a forum to vote on it.

    cant someone lock this, so every gets back to work ? jeez calm down ppl
     
  2. MaliceA4Thought

    MaliceA4Thought

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    And that example is nothing to do with Micro Transactions. Micro Transactions is to do with Monetization as a service. It's a system that allows you to suck people in and then kill them to keep them there. It's a great model, but ultimately it costs a lot more doing Microtransactions than the once up payment.

    To cast a similarity with Micropayments, Unity would sell for $10 or maybe even $0.00. Then, you would be given 10 basic scripts and 20 basic prefabs (like a character controller) to play with, which would let you do some very basic but cool stuff.

    Then Micropayments would kick in..

    for any additional script you wanted to write.. $5.00
    for any script over 100 lines in length.. $5.00
    for any assett you wanted to add to the game... $2.00
    for any compilation of the game... $1.00


    THAT is a Micropayment model and generally gets a better revenue in some cases. That's why LOTRO has now moved to a Micropayment strategy along with D&D Online. Whilst the fixed revenue model achieved results, the Micropayment strategy far exceeds it for the userbase size of both games.

    Whilst each transaction may seem very small, the actual cost is some 20 - 30 times higherin the world of real dollars.. that's the whole point behind the model and why it works so well... most people don't understand Micropayments :)

    One thing you are right in is that the buisiness of middleware has changed significantly.. after all.. if the game or software costs $0 then there is no reason to pirate it.. although some will, but when you then have to pay on a Micropayment strategy, you could wind up paying 10 - 20 times that origional cost, if they have the strategy right... so that free Unity license with Micropayments actually costs you 15k for your first game and similar amounts for each one thereafter.

    Do you really want to set-up a card and a payment method before you even write code for your game, knowing every single line of code is going to cost you more? I don't think so.

    Regards

    Graham
     
  3. saymoo

    saymoo

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    That's A definition/strategy of doing successful business. (the quick score)
    However, having a very steady profit, but growing market penetration is another one (because of growing userbase).
    On the long run, i think the second option is better these days. (economic climate etc)
    People's will to spend on items (especial virtual ones), have changed.. and the market should follow this trend. (to keep steady).

    The art of selling is to sell ;) and have a growth in that. Is sales are not growing, this indicates something is wrong.
    But selling does not per definition means asking the highest price possible all the time. Competition is strong, and when the competition lowers their price on success product, people will shift to that product. (money is the crucial factor for end users.. why pay more if the competition with equal type of product does it for less?. E.g. bread.. you have bread that costs xxx and bread of the equal type but from brand Z cost less than xxx.. which one will you buy?)

    Likewise: Let's shake hands ;)
    I do like discussions, even heated ones :)
    And with you (and some other promintent members here), i feel subjects are being discussed indepth, that's healthy indeed.:)

    And yes, sometimes, we are nearing a real fight (or so it looks), but speaking for myself, it's simply part of that particular discussion (which can become quite heated and emotions rise hehe), but never really personal..

    Indeed, UT is very openminded towards subjects, and competing products being called into them. (that's another reason whyi'm so active here... the forum is great...)
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  4. MaliceA4Thought

    MaliceA4Thought

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    Based on how well they are doing, the studio names using it and the Capital funding they have just got, I would say they already found it at ohhhhh around $1500???

    Regards

    Graham
     
  5. saymoo

    saymoo

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    Depends on the strategy, Graham.. Capital funding, does not make the price right per definition. Nor some "partners" using it.
    The major audience using Unity are, small in terms of financial capabilities.

    Also, for your other comment:
    yes Microtransaction was not completely covering what i ment... i ment, low pricing and microtransactions..
    But i think my comment, made it clear enough (the examples), what i really ment ;)
    Many publishers are making games lower in price, from start.. with or without microtransaction build in.
    Because it boosts the sales significantly, thus their profit, as proofed by their quarter fiscal results after going that direction. (e.g. EA, Valve)
     
  6. kablammyman

    kablammyman

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    while i think that unity is a great value, i can see why people would want it free (or very cheap).

    However, what is cheaper in monetary value are books, coding practice, and even jr. college classes. Then taking this knowledge and coding your own game engine, or your own game. It may not be the fastest way to make a game, but dammit, it can be the most rewarding! Also, in the end, the knowledge you learn can be used in other ways/areas of programming. Its also a one time cost...a cost that can lend it self to getting you future work even if unity (and all its elk) would disappear one day (or if you get a job where they dont use unity)

    so if 1500 is too much for you, get a $60 book on C++ coding, another one for game programming, and be done with it.
     
  7. Redbeer

    Redbeer

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    I agree with this for the most part.

    However, I'm not convinced that $1500 (or $4500 for the full boat) is the magic number, when you consider the competition, as well as what that price represents to the average person. Odds are, based on the fact that there are, at last time I heard them mention it, over 200K total Unity users, I doubt very much that more than say 20% of that are Pro licenses (I suspect it's less), so the question is, is there a price/feature set, now that Unity has more exposure, that brings in more of the free user base, as paying customers?

    I'm not sure about you, but for MOST people (average salary in the US is 40K per person, which does NOT provide medical insurance, yet, we pay the premiums as does our employer), so after taxes that's roughly 30K.

    After deducting rent, food, car insurance, health insurance premiums, gasoline, utilities, etc., $4500 represents MORE than the disposable yearly income of the average person, and that's being conservative on how you spend your money. Plus, considering that the app store is a good benchmark for developer "success" at 1 billion payout for 225000 apps, that's an average income of 4400 per app (for which there could be 1 to however many developers). It seems to me that a $4500 price, or even a $1500 or $3000 price, is a significant chunk of that, so saying "well you can just by the upgrades before you sell your app and use integrate the added features", is quite a risk to take for any individual or team, who doesn't have a well established personal income already, or isn't "really" sure they'll pull in a good income with something sooner rather than later.

    Simply put, in my world, among the many hundreds of people I know, all of whom make well over 40K, $500 is a "really" expensive Christmas present, $1500 is extravagant where everyone chips in to by "little johnny" his college computer, and $4500 is more than any one person spends on any one thing, other than, a house (which they borrow to buy), a car, furniture, or a really expensive entertainment center. So barring people having the time to do side projects/jobs in addition to developing their own app, I doubt very much that the pricing is really in the "democritization" category just yet.
    I mean, here's something to consider, look how long it took to sell out the android Pro version when they were giving away FREE phones, many, many months. I wonder how many of those people made enough profit with their android license to justify the cost of the software?

    This brings up another point, in the longer term, how much ill will is generated, because this whole Indie/app store is still mostly in its infancy, when people buy the Pro versions and rapidly realize that "most" people aren't going to make their money back?
     
  8. mgear

    mgear

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    ps. did anyone noticed there is currently 20% discount on unity pro? (ends in few days, the coupon code arrived on email)
    For those thinking about buying, its time to grab it : )
     
  9. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I already had a discount of 20% before the sale. That comes from asking them nicely. It's interesting when you have a company that can be open to suggestion. I suggest people take them up on it, while they can still give it to you, or need to give it to you.

    But onto the subject matter of:
    If you're buying pro, you're pretty convinced you'll make that 1500 back, or you need pro for the profiler, or effects or any other number of features.

    I'm not sure how that equates to ill-will. You know exactly what you are buying and why you are buying it. I'm not sure of your meaning. The indie/appstore business is now 3 and a half years old, and growing faster than it's ever done.

    Unity themselves don't base their entire business model on the sales of pro. They've got 12 million cash investment from an investor, the military, plus broad licensing from EA, 30% from asset store, 20% from union and other deals that I don't know of. That puts them in a strong sustainable position where they don't actually need our money to stay in business, but do need our money for passive growth, and of course, having more developers. Over time, I would expect I'll be giving unity something like 50-100,000 in total cash, depending on how many years I choose to remain with them, how successful my own growth is and so on. Thats one guy. And in the software business its always about money over time.

    An interesting thread with intelligent discussion has been born from a completely retarded poll. Thats why I love these forums.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  10. janpec

    janpec

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    100 dollars for Pro version is for sure too low. Ability to release unlimited ammount of games with that type of licence deserves better price.
    But there is one thing to consider. There are few competitors rising in horizon which could force Unity later to change price. One of them is Shiva3d engine. For 200 dollars you can create full IOS game or PC game which is way less than Unity engine. For now UT can be happy for some major lacks on Shiva engine, otherwise they would be already in troubles. But it is really hard to say what would be fair or better price for Pro licence. Anything in range 1000-500 wouldnt make that much of difference to sales. Most of users who do not have licence right now would not purchase it if price would be 600 dollars becouse they just cant afford it. The real problem i dont see actually in Pro licence at all, but rather in IOS licence. paying over 3000 dollars for IOS licence is huge, it means that without some serious marketing and team you are forced to make several games to pay it back (assuming some avarage sale rate for game), which leads that in that time you could develop one decent PC game and gain 20 times of this cash ammount. In my opinion IOS licencing strategy is not good at least not for hobbyst or small indie developers.
     
  11. Ntero

    Ntero

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    Geeze this post is moving fast.

    I think they did choose a number based on all that, and it was $1500.
     
  12. UnknownProfile

    UnknownProfile

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    Somebody lock this thread. There's nowhere to go but down.
     
  13. adaman

    adaman

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    Unity Pro is not an HP Touchpad.
     
  14. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Why are you asking for a thread lock when there's interesting (and on topic, no less) discussion? nobody is making attacks or anything. If anything, there is even information here that unity likes to read. Forums are great for looking at shifting user attitude. Anyway janpec says:

    But lord is it a bad engine. It runs like crap and developing in shiva is a bug ridden experience at best. Good luck with creating shadowgun in that bad boy. Brings me back to the prime rib vs big mac argument.

    While I'd love to use umbra, beast, shaders with wicked fallback paths, a profiler to dominate performance, have verts handled on other cores or processors like neon, and everything else unity can do for $200 in shiva, its not going to remotely happen. If it did, I'm sure everyone would use shiva.

    But here you are, on the unity forums.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  15. BrUnO-XaVIeR

    BrUnO-XaVIeR

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    WHAAT???
    Yeah right... I just couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this topic. -.-"
     
  16. QFS

    QFS

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    When I first bought Unity, it was literally the best engine out there. There were either the very/ultra expensive "AAA" engines (which no indie had a chance to get their hands on) or cheap really crappy engines (in terms of performance, or graphics, or workflow). So Unity stood out as filling the gap and bringing the best of both worlds.

    Unity is still great, but as time goes on, and as competitors like UDK, CryEngine, etc, start making more available for low initial starting costs (talking about short term fees, not long term) then its going to be harder to justify upgrading each new major version, unless Unity brings something to the table that the competitors dont have. I really like Unity, but if the next major version 4.xx doesnt really have anything that competitors dont have or does something better/easier than they do, then I personally wont be upgrading it. Because when it comes to per seat costs, Unity's initial starting costs are higher than their competitors.
     
  17. echologin

    echologin

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    So unity should eat the cost of someones lack of skill or lack of pay ? thats so ridiculous

    maybe they should sell $10,000 guitars for 99 bucks so everyone has a chance to become a rockstar

    anything, ANYTHING in entertainment only 1 in a 1000 ( if not 100's of thousands ) is successful, if you want to try its YOUR RISK not the company selling a product that saves your well more then 3000 dollars
    in time like Unity.
     
  18. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    This is simple, guyz!

    If you're serious 1.5k is not that much! If you're not... use free version!
     
  19. UnknownProfile

    UnknownProfile

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    Everybody is arguing with one another, even though they're fighting the same side of the argument.
     
  20. rockysam888

    rockysam888

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    If unity cost $99, who is responsible to pay wages of employees, license fee of 3rd party tool (eg. substance, umbra, etc.), debugging, documentation, product support?
     
  21. zine92

    zine92

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    Agreed. And i think Unity free is already very good. Why still make Pro any cheaper. Use free then. And making it cheaper might only make others think that it's not good enough therefore it's selling cheap. And thats not how quality apps work. Unity Rules. :D
     
  22. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    Hey Brendonvdm, How about you work for me for FREE?
    As a matter of fact, let's put up a poll and demand Brandonvdm to work for us for FREE. If all of us demand him to work for us for free, I am sure he will submit to our request right?

    Another "wish Unity to be free" thread.
    What is with people these days? What is this "wish its free" mentality???? A sense of entitlement?!
    I felt this is one of the thing that's wrong with this generation of young people these day.. a sense of entitlement for things they didn't even WORK FOR IT. So you just "want" free lunch and people will give it to you without you putting in any effort? Why can't you go GET A JOB CLEANING FLOOR and SAVE UP $1500 DOLLARS TO BUY UNITY PRO LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE DO?

    This mentality is pretty widespread too, almost every few days there would be people DEMANDING PRO features to be on Unity Free. The endless "Why can't we have Umbra to be free", "Why can't we have Beast to be free", "Why can't we have shadow or image effects to be free"...AND NOW, They want Unity Pro to be $99 dollars! HOW ABOUT FREE? I know you really just want it to be free.

    This is another reason why I agree with many other Unity Pro users Unity should make a forum for the NON-PAYING CUSTOMERS and put all of them there! I just can't stand the incessant whining and demands for Unity Pro/Asset server/Pro Features to be free anymore. Its driving the quality of the forum down to abysmal infantile level.
     
  23. mgear

    mgear

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    One more idea to consider, "Dare To Share" (like what messiah studio did),
    people paid fixed amount and if enough buyers did the same within limited time, you got the software at that price.
    (if there hadnt been not enough people, you would had been refunded)
     
  24. DanielQuick

    DanielQuick

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    @I am da Bawss

    I don't think anyone took him seriously, the conversation turned into something useful instead of whining.

    If they made a pro only forum, I would finally buy Unity. I haven't felt the need to upgrade yet, the free version is completely fine for me, it has everything I need (except the profiler, if I do upgrade that would be the reason). Thats right, I said it. Unity should take more away from the free version :p

    I haven't purchased it because I'm saving up for college, not because its too expensive. Once I have enough saved up, I'll gladly give Unity the money the deserve.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  25. Don-Gray

    Don-Gray

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    I'm sure Unity's not going to go for the $99 thing, well, of course, that's my assuption,
    but if they did, what would they tell their present Pro owners?
    Would they get a lifetime free upgrade?
    If you are adding up the amount of money Unity would get by lowering the price you'd have to exclude the present Pro owners
    payments, since I'm sure UT would feel the need to assuage their higher paying cutomers in some way.
     
  26. 2Dsprite.com

    2Dsprite.com

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    Honestly, I would like the forums to be a little more professional than this. Can we please get a mod lock on this thread?

    A dropdown from $1500 to $99? What a joke. At least make it feasible, such as a drop from $1500 to $500, or $400, or a request for a $200 android/ios basic version, or idk...something realistic.

    If you want things done, you have to be pragmatic and reasonable. Demanding something ridiculous is a surefire way of

    1) Not getting what you want. Not even close.
    2) Having no bartering room in any way to change things, being ignored entirely because of the ridiculous request.
    3) Be seen as a child, opening yourself up to be mocked, disrespected, and laughed at.

    Instead, even if you want it to be extreme, you have to be REASONABLE. A drop from $1500 to $500 is EXTREME..but it's not entirely unreasonable. Also remember Unity has to make money to survive. I don't care about "It's a business!" because that is a stupid excuse people use to ignore productive change in society, and is merely a fool's way of thinking. Yet Unity is a game engine, and that requires workers, which require money to run. Without this money, Unity will downgrade in quality significantly. I hope it is NOT a business and is instead merely a Game Engine, with the focus on bringing this beautiful tool to all sorts of clients. However, I certainly don't want them to go bankrupt.

    Fund that which is good, hide your money from that which is wrong, and if you want change...BE REASONABLE!
    Unity3D is a wonderful company, and one of the good ones. (Regardless of the people who run it or their motivations which I am unaware of, the actual product is VERY good for society). They deserve what they charge, which I'm sure is not unreasonable.
     
  27. 2Dsprite.com

    2Dsprite.com

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    They should certainly NOT take more away from the free version. Power to the people is indeed a very great thing.

    They certainly SHOULD, however, make a Pro-only forum for those who have given Unity3D some serious money (Anything that costs, either a mobile basic version or a PRO version of any kind).

    I believe a quality forum should be a necessity of Unity, and the only way to do that is a Pro-only section. Because honestly, although it's wonderful to have a free product-- there sure is a lot of people here who won't ever release a working game.

    With that said however, there are plenty of wonderful free users here who are mature and serious. They should not be shunned due to the inability or refusal to pay.
    IMO, a pro-section wouldn't really be any better. The people are still the same (some good, some nasty) but there would be less "freebie spam".
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  28. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    Seems to be a thing running with the Linux users - they are just cheap and prefer not to pay for anything right? :D

    So what can you expect getting out of Linux market anyway if majority are like you who just doesn't want to pay a fair price for the software? (Oh and don't bring me that argument about the Humble Indie Bundle - a few rich Linux die hard doesn't make majority of Linux user base (as insignificant as it is ... at less than 2% currently) a viable option.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  29. 2Dsprite.com

    2Dsprite.com

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    There is nothing wrong with wanting something to be free. It's not a sense of entitlement to desire everything to be free, and arguably that could be a great world. Some day, if Robotic A.I. is developed no one will ever have to work and the world might enter a utopia state (before iRobot or Terminator begins, of course!)

    I really don't know why people even respond to the young people who demand Unity Pro be free. They are entirely incapable of using any pro functions, or even the free version. How many 15 year olds do you see with fully released games (even crappy ones)? Exactly.

    If we were any better than they, we would just not reply to a single post, and simply request moderators to close the thread. After all, a mod closing a demanding child's thread won't really disrupt anything except future sales which most likely won't ever occur anyway.

    The fact this forum has a "Gossip" section is the reason the quality of the forum is down to an abysmal infantile level. It's not just the free users, it's the fact this is a pretty useless section, don't you think?
     
  30. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    NO. It would not be a great world. It will be THE END OF THE WORLD.
    If everything is free, it encourage waste, greed, and gluttony. And that is not sustainable.
    This is simply because in this world, this universe, there is no such thing as "free" as in free energy. Ever seen perpetual motion in action? You can't take something out if you don't put something in. That's the fundamental law of this universe.


    There is a prefectly good reason why Unity charge what they charge. It is pretty simple - it is not a "magic number" that UT just thought up like many posters think UT picked with a dart on a dart board. UT did market analysis, they calculated their annual operating cost, salary, cost of living, size of the team, perceived market size, how much loan/external investment they can get, how much risk they can take, all that was weighed and factored into the price of Unity.

    Leadwerks, C4, were all run by a 1 man team. That's why they can charge what they charge. Even now they are raising their price as their operating costs are increasing. Leadwerks was $100 dollars when I bought it, C4 was the same back few years ago. But living cost has risen dramatically past few years, a long with the size of their teams so even they are raising the price too now - C4 is now charging $350 for standard edition and $1200 for Professional edition; while Leadwerks charge $199 (up 200%) and may move the price up as Josh's team continue to grow (along with feature sets). They simply cannot continue to charge at those price when they are no longer 1 man company and can live in their mom's garage rent free. They now have to pay for salary, and that alone will force them to increase their price.

    And it is the same with CryEngine and UDK - the premium they charge, is directly correlate to their operating cost. You can't expect Crytek and Epic to start pricing their engine to Unity's level, because it would be financially unfeasible for them to do so. Their team size are just too large, so unless they start firing people and cut their salary, their price point is NOT going to change.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  31. Tiles

    Tiles

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    It`s insane that every time this issue comes up the holy army of self called Admins and Unity defeaters appears to knock everybody down. Oooh, do not harm teh holy Unity!!!! 1111!

    What is it? The feeling to have the longer cock because you were able to buy the Pro? Congrats. Are you aware that you do bigger damage to Unity than any enemy could ever do with your bashing? Noticed that the initial poster has deleted his postings already because he became aware to what kind of guys he is talking to here? What about listening to arguments and answer to them instead of whining that the forum degenerates and the cry to lock the threads all the time? That`s for me the most degenerated and pretty useless part here.

    Fact is, Hobbyists will nearly never make money from their games. So there is no money in sight that could pay the Pro. You even name it. Hobbyists can be lucky when they are able to finish a game at all, regardless of the features of the engine.

    The hobbyists fraction is the bigger userbase compared to the professional Unity users here though. And from that angle of view 1500 bucks is ways out of reach. To ignore this part of the userbase, to provide a price that just professionals can pay is shortsighted from more than one point of view.

    Unity knows that already. Unity`s success story started when the Indie version became free. Before that point it was just one of many engines. Which shows that the right pricing strategy can do a miracle, and that even FREE can bring you a big business. When Unity would have listened to the fanboy fraction then it would still be one of many engines, with not enough money to do even a fraction of the current development. The next logical step from my angle of view is to lower the price of the Pro so that even hobbyists can buy it. Then Unity would earn the maximum.

    Here a quick math exercise. Let`s say you have 100 people. 10 people can afford to pay 1500 bucks. 90 people can just afford to pay 500 bucks though. With which pricing strategy would you earn more? All professionals here, selling their games for 1000 bucks i guess ... :rolleyes:
     
  32. Tiles

    Tiles

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    The internet out there is big enough. What about opening your hot needed Pro Only Forum by yourself? Maybe you even get 10 or 20 users :)
     
  33. c-Row

    c-Row

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    Of course I would buy it if it was $99 only. It wouldn't make much sense to the devs to do so, but that wasn't the question. ;)
     
  34. Phil W

    Phil W

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    The only people who are in a position to informatively decide price points are Unity.

    I'm sure if they thought a lower price point would yield greater returns, they'd go for it.

    It's their business, nobody else's, and they're not idiots.

    As for this whole "have and have nots" anti-Pro-Owners nonsense, most of the people who've paid for Pro and Adanced mobile licenses have worked damn hard to get where they are today. If you want $1500 worth of software, get off your backside and make some money. I'm sick of today's generation wanting everything handed to them on a plate. Seriously, grow up and stop trying to bully the world into making your dinner for you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  35. jackshiels

    jackshiels

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    Amen to that.
     
  36. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    its a shame those who cannot argue a point in a mature manner are calling for a thread lock. It is exactly the same as insults being the last refuge of someone who has no comeback discussion or argument.

    I don't know about you but until recently we were discussing the relative merits of $99 vs $1500 in a peaceful and reasoned manner. But then the younger teens came in, spoiled my hopes of a decent discussion and indeed pushed the thread towards a lock with aggressive arguments and calls for thread locks.

    Plato and Socrates argued with passion, not with violence, knowing the difference will make a discussion enjoyable. In any case I have said what I needed to say, I am busy putting the final touches to my unity game, which would have been just as good in unity free, albeit lacking a few nicer touches. I am 100% certain it will sell just as good with or without pro.

    It's not how big it is, its what you do with it :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  37. jackshiels

    jackshiels

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    These threads inevitably descend into flame-wars. We had a very long version of this a few months ago.
     
  38. galent

    galent

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    Business 1001:
    Micro and Macro economics
    B2C vs B2B

    People, as in general market consumer, are trending in most North American and European market towards micro transactions online, lead in large part by the proven viability of that model from Asian markets as well as Russia.

    Business consumers still trend in all markets toward strong products built by stable, long term viable companies. When compared with upper 6 figure base prices associated with "AAA" game engines, Unity is nearly free. The price is quite a supportive gesture from Unity to lower the entry price of industry standard quality within financial reach of the "indie" game developers (not general consumers). Game development is not at the place where the general population can easily engage in development (no more than any other software development). Business to Business is a solid financial base, where deals tend to land in the 6+ figures regularly and 7+ is by no means uncommon.

    Lowering the price of Unity will have a tangible effect on Business buyers, around the kind of price related questions raised above. $99 draws into question the quality of the product and the long term viability of the company (which is only important in terms of service/support.. you will notice that some of the larger business customers still negotiate (large cost) Unity source code deals (just in case).

    Yes, I would buy Unity at $99, but not at the cost of the momentum they have today.

    I find it ironic that Unity has made a royalty free, free as in beer, general consumer product available with all if not more of the features of the $99 products people are quoting as examples, arguing that they need the Professional version. Why? On the iOS or Android, I'll give you the API stripping has a general game dev use with real impact on deployed game. In Unity standard tools, what Pro features are you held up by? The main use of those tools is performance at larger scale and eye candy. Nothing that stops you from doing all but last minute touch up level work, you can build any game with the "free" version, and if $1500 is still eat'n at you, get a publisher or investor to spring for it. $1500 is a no brainer after a complete game is ready for final touchups and release!!

    Cheers,

    Galen
     
  39. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    First, if you are hobbyist, there are other perfectly good hobbyist alternatives you can use, like Blender game engine for example. And Unity Free is perfect for hobbyist too. But if you demand for Pro features, you better have the money to pay for it. There is a reason Unity Pro is called Unity Pro because its not for hobbyist. It requires serious commitment (be it that you work to clean floors and toilets just to save up to buy it or wash cars or flip burgers for a year) and I believe that charging for $1500 bucks make it a serious enough commitment (and not so expensive that's unreachable) for anyone who wants to get on the game development path. If you can't be serious enough to commit to a measly $1500 dollars or work for a year to save up, you are not serious enough and will never make it in the game business anyway, and will never "need" these professional features from Unity Pro.

    Unity Technologies



    Secondly, because Unity is a business that has almost 100 employees (count them) who depends on the success of Unity to support their families, Unity's growth and stability will largely derive from the long term commitment of professional indie developers, NOT hobbyists who are not committed to anything who will be here today and not tomorrow.

    Let's do a simple math - if average salary of a Unity employee (from receptionist to accountant to junior entry programmer and senior software engineer right up to CEO) are $50,000 USD (I am being very very conservative) - the annual cost for salary for 100 UT employee is already $5 million dollars, and operating cost for an office of 100 employees would be around $2 million (conservative estimate, and from my personal experience), the total annual minimum operating cost is already $7 million (there are probably more I am not factor in like insurance, healthcare benefit...etc etc) - that's $7 million constant moving goal post /risk/pressure for UT to meet.

    For Unity Technologies, it needs to sell 4667 copies of Unity Pro/iOS Pro/Android Pro every year just to break even. If it sells Unity Pro at the ridicules $99 price point, it needs to sell 70,707 copies every year to break even. At $500, it needs to sell 14,000 copies every year just to break even.

    And UT doesn't just want to break even, it wants to have growth, and it has investment obligations to meet too. So the number is far higher than my conservative estimate. If it cannot meet those estimate, it will have to start laying off employees, decreasing UT's productivity and thus future feature sets and scopes to the customers, and in a ever competitive middleware market, that will be the death of UT if it has to result on cutting cost and features just to compete.

    So, I am pretty sure that lowering the barrier down to $500 so its affordable for "hobbyists" will be a pretty bad idea. These "hobbyists" (13/14/15 yr olds with attention span of a fly! YES YOU, THE ONE WHO WANTS TO MAKE MMO) are not what UT want for long term growth. They evaporate like the snow in summer sun as soon as market condition change or next best / greatest thing comes along. UT will not be able to survive on that, and it is way too much risk for them to put their livelihood on the line to depend on these non-committed financially insecure group as income source.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  40. Redbeer

    Redbeer

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    Not at all. I'm just saying, based on what seems to be their business model, which is to entice people to use the product with a FREE version the "next step" in pricing is beyond the capabilities of "most" people. Call it what you will, but averages exist for a reason. I mean, I make well more than the average, but how many people here make less than I do, particularly when you consider the world as a whole? My average was just for the USA, what about all the developing nations with a talent pool that can theoretically produce a game, are they ever in a position to become a paying customer?

    That's the point. Unity, like any business, wants paying customers. So what I question is, is $1500, $3000, or $4500 "really" the price that will convert people to paying customers? Keeping in mind that all those "potential" paying customers, in fact most of them, are NOT established businesses, freelancers, consultants, because they just gave the basic product away for free.

    We seem to constantly throw around two diverging points. "Look at the massive user base! Unity is dominating!", then, "Any professional worth his salt can easily make up for a $1500 cost". When the reality is, that "large user base" isn't necessarily made up of well paid professionals who make their purchases intelligently, based purely on what they need for tools, where the purchaser can see the direct line to profit after purchase.

    Unity is in much more of a Prosumer item at this point, which is very much a mixed bag of all ends of the spectrum. At the high end, $1500 is laughable, in the middle $1500 is a risk, on the low end, it's not even appropriate. So really it comes down to what percentages fall into each category and how much of the user base do they expect to convert. If the intent is that they only convert users who produce a shipped and profitable game, then that's Unity taking on the risk, and probably won't lead to that many yearly Pro licenses.
     
  41. n0mad

    n0mad

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    Cheaper is not necessarly better. Value defines price, but price also defines value.
    99$ is ridiculous for such a tool.

    Plus, you have a game engine market to respect, this would completely wreck it.
    If one is willing to go Pro, i.e "Professional", he will have to act like a professional and reserve a defined budget.

    Hell, the single fact that even a starting indie can afford Pro is sufficient to prove that it's not expensive. Unless the indie is below 18 y.o, but it means he's not allowed to work, which means he's not supposed to be pro.
     
  42. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    The point is, if you price it at $99 for Unity Pro, every kid in the block will be here asking "I WANT TO MAKE DA BESTEST MMO LIKE WORLD OF WARCRAFT! PLEASE TEACH ME HOW ! WHY UNITY NOT HAVE MAKE MMO BUTTON??? WHY???" UNITY SUCKS ASS! I HATE IT ! BYE!"

    Just as quickly there is a large number of teenage wannabes with $99 (who will probably incessantly demand Unity Pro to be free every chance they get) at their disposal and buy Unity IF UT ever decides to lower to that price point, it will be just as quickly they will disappear when they discover making an MMO IS HARD WORK AND COMPLETELY OUT OF THEIR LEAGUE. UT cannot depends their growth and income on these people.
     
  43. ivanzu

    ivanzu

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    I think that there is no need to reduce the price tp 99$.Why?Because unity community has some genius peoples that are making unity free more and more powerful almost every month like the guy that made real time shadows for unity free.
     
  44. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    Amen brother!
     
  45. c-Row

    c-Row

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    As distinct from the current situation?
     
  46. Tiles

    Tiles

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    Luckily you are NOT the one that decides who is allowed to use Unity or not. Hey, it`s those kids that grows up and may make the next Farcry.

    Honestly YOU are the kind of guy where i would forbid the useage, if even. I would say grow up a bit, learn a bit more tolerance, maybe even have children. This will definitely change your way of thinking ;)

    Not every hobbyist wants to make an MMO. And not every hobbyist is inexperienced. It`s a very very VERY small fraction of inexperienced and dreaming kids. It`s bullshit to set hobbyists equal to MMO kids. Unity has over 500.000 users/downloaders nowadays (Would be interesting to know how much of them own a Pro license). Honestly i wonder why there are not more MMO threads. That`s for me the sign that all is good ;)

    Have a look at 3D Gamestudio, at Blitzmax, at Darkbasic, at Gamemaker, at XNA, Torque ... the number of hobbyists goes into millions and millions and millions. A very big market, ten times bigger than the professional market. Which gets ignored by the pricing strategy of Unity. Unity attracts them with the free version, but doesn`t have a strategy to get their money then. That`s the whole point. Unity will not earn a cent at me. Not because i am not willing to pay, but because i cannot afford it. The price is too high. That simple.

    And that`s the reason why i am pretty sure that lowering the barrier down to $500 so its affordable for "hobbyists" would be the most excellent idea ever.

    Unity itself already gave the number one example that you are totally wrong. Who of you would have thought that a FREE version of Unity would blow it to the top of the market?
     
  47. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    A perfectly good example is Torque game engine - currently selling for $99 and is a pile of stinking poo!

    It attracts all the wrong crowds - teenagers mostly, and GarageGames never made enough money to employ talents to fix it. It is sold as a pile of garbage for years for anyone who are stupid enough to get into it. And now they are mostly out of business.

    If Unity lowers Unity Pro down to $99, you don't need magic crystal ball to know what will happen. Just look at Garage Games and its outcome.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  48. saymoo

    saymoo

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    what email? never got any?
     
  49. c-Row

    c-Row

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    That's not a fair comparison. Unity already is in a state - both feature-wise and in stability - Torque never got even remotely close to.

    I think $499 would be a good compromise here. I've paid the same for several pro DAW packages in the past. There are enough people out there using those tools, they are developed by huge companies, and like Unity, the only limits are one's imagination, talent and passion. Did I have fun with them? Definitely! Would I have bought them if they had been $1,500 each? Definitely not.
     
  50. taumel

    taumel

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    Lowering the price always adds more consumers. The question is, if you're interested in maximum profit, where the climax is. I could imagine that lowering the price in a reasonable way could increase the income but i have no idea where this pricetag exactly would be. From a feeling i would say $1000 sounds a lot more reasonable than $100, and please spare me these stupid .99 prices.

    But in the end i'm fine with the price of Unity as it is. What bothers me more is that a) the licence isn't really up to the task so that you can use it in a flexible way, b) Unity's customer support also sucked in this respect, c) adding additional platforms can become quite costy and isn't friendly for small projects or trying out stuff and d) same with seat licences and updates. These more hidden costs are the ones which can make Unity quite expensive.

    But this is a general problem many applications which are higher priced are having, they don't consider that you might just use a tool not every day but for a few projects only.

    All this again might be irrelevant to a certain degree to Unity because they might have better incomes meanwhile than the usual pro user there was some years ago. Dunno, in the end you would need to know the exact numbers to say something reasonable about it. Without them i suspect the iOS users are those which are driving the business to a large degree, beside of some special deals.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
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