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Blizzard is going to publish games for Linux

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Zenodox, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. Zenodox

    Zenodox

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    They're joining Valve's new strategy apparently. Probably a new game but possibly WoW, possibly Diablo III both of which they already have running internally on Linux.

    Just wanted to say: Unity4 + Linux: thank you Unity Technologies.

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  2. Starsman Games

    Starsman Games

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    Ponder how the Linux community will take to Diablo III, a game who's Always-Online-DRM is so strict it goes against everything Linux stands for.
     
  3. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    The fundamentalists won't like it, but they don't seem to like anything that makes any kind of concession for the sake of practicality. The growing Ubuntu audience might be into it, though.

    Also, I know that it's trendy to spin Diablo 3's nature as "DRM", but I don't really see it that way. Blizzard are in the business of making online games, and Diablo 3 is designed around the online experience from the ground up even if many of us aren't too interested in that part of the experience.
     
  4. MarigoldFleur

    MarigoldFleur

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    Blizzard makes ONE exclusively online game and Diablo 3's multiplayer is entirely incomplete. Not only that, but Blizzard has outright admitted that most people don't make use of the online components of the game.
     
  5. Zenodox

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    I don't think those particular games are important. What is signifact is that Blizzard, like Value, is acknowledging that 1. Windows 8 is turning into a failure and so 2. Canonical expects mainstream Ubuntu usage to grow to 5% and 3. Microsoft will try to kill Steam with windows 8 which will stimulate many gamers to dual boot.

    So it's validation that games on Linux are getting more mainstream.
     
  6. MarigoldFleur

    MarigoldFleur

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    1. They're acknowledging that other markets have a growth rate that merits financial and product investment, not saying that Windows 8 is a failure.
    2. Canonical has been saying that for about five years now.
    3. This is ridiculous on its face as the Windows Store only provides Metro apps, not desktop apps like Steam.
     
  7. Zenodox

    Zenodox

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  8. MarigoldFleur

    MarigoldFleur

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  9. Zenodox

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    So maybe Gabe was just in a bad mood that morning and decided to hold a press conference slamming Microsoft for no reason?

    Well maybe, but Notch too is worried.
     
  10. MarigoldFleur

    MarigoldFleur

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    Gabe Newell not liking Microsoft having a dedicated storefront in their own operating system does not mean Microsoft is "trying to kill Steam."
     
  11. Paradigm-SW

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    Linux is becoming quite the platform.
     
  12. Zenodox

    Zenodox

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    So why is Notch worried? Why does Blizzard also care? Maybe you are right and they are wrong. Maybe what Microsoft did to Netscape was an accident too.

    But whatever is going on, there will obviously be growth in Linux gamers this year and I for one am infinitely glad Unity builds to that platform.
     
  13. Sslaxx

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    Phoronix? Well, the only reason it was right on Steam for Linux is the same principle as a broken clock being right twice a day.

    IF there's any truth to this, I wonder what's pushing Activision to (maybe) publish some of it's Blizzard label titles under Linux. And if this means more than just Diablo 3 or WoW.
     
  14. Devilbox-Games

    Devilbox-Games

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    Notch is "worried" because integrating with the tile features of Windows 8 requires 1) being an approved developer like iOS, WP, BlackBerry, etc. etc. etc. 2) distribution through the store 3) working in a sandbox environment like aforementioned platforms. However it does not effect standard windows in any shape or form.

    From both a developer and user perspective, Windows 8 as a platform is still as open as it ever has been and there is no sign of that changing, it is just the tile sub-platform which is closed. Complaining about it being closed is like complaining that the Steam platform is closed and highly regulated by Valve: Why can't a free game I distribute on my own integrate fully with Valve's services and Steam's features entirely for free without having to go through the song and dance to get Valve's approval? The answer should be obvious.
     
  15. DallonF

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    I like Windows 8, but I think it's not going to do too well in the market because it requires re-learning the interface. I don't understand what that has to do with Linux, though... does Blizzard/Valve/Notch actually think that people are going to move from Windows 8 to Ubuntu... because Windows 8 is hard to learn? If anything, Apple is going to gain some marketshare out of the whole fiasco, not Linux.
     
  16. Zenodox

    Zenodox

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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  17. MarigoldFleur

    MarigoldFleur

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    Except, once again, you didn't bother to do any actual research on your own. What that refers to is "secure boot", a validation system built in to UEFI 2.2. Microsoft isn't pushing manufacturers to do anything other than enable secure boot because it adds a layer of security to the operating system. It's also something you can disable as a user on most hardware.
     
  18. Zenodox

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    Except that the UEFI nonsense is just thinly veiled Microsoft marketing mumbo jumbo. Just as "Next Generation Secure Computing Base" was mumbo jumbo for DRM ten years ago.

    But do tell me, as someone who has done the research, exactly which malware threat does this "security" prevent?

    The obvious intent and effect is to prevent what happened to Vista i.e. users "downgrading" to XP. In this case it is to prevent reverting to Windows7 or trying Ubuntu. Extremely sophisticated users that happen to have hardware with the right kind of BIOS might be able to work around it. But that is not "most"

    At any rate, it's an implicit admission by Microsoft that they are (at least a little bit) annoyed by Linux.
     
  19. MarigoldFleur

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    No it isn't. UEFI is an extension of EFI and was designed to replace BIOS, a severely aged system that has no place in modern computers. Macs have been using a version of EFI for years.

    And no, the intent isn't anything like what your paranoid fantasies imply either. Did you know that Ubuntu has a secure boot validation token? Lots of Linux distros do, in fact! What it does is prevent things like illicit driver loading, which plagued XP for the longest time as fake audio driver injection was a key virus entry vector. It allows a software vendor to have a greater deal of security and control at a hardware level. It isn't "marketing mumbo jumbo" and isn't even a product designed by Microsoft.

    It's not an implicit admission of anything.
     
  20. Starsman Games

    Starsman Games

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    Love the hyperbole in the piece... "If Microsoft decides to lock down Windows 8, it would be very, very bad for Indie games and competition in general"

    You know what is bad for Indie games? A world where Steam is the dominant source of game distribution and everything else is untrusted. Trying to get into Steam as an indie developer is now as stupid as trying to win a Reality TV Talent Show, bit worse actually, and that's actually an improvement from the old model. The Windows Store is way more indie friendly than Steam has ever been. I dare anyone that has actually shipped a game to say with a straight face that the iOS App Store has actually gotten in the way.

    We know by now very well MS is not preventing anyone from selling apps via their own websites, worst case scenario is simply that users will only trust the Windows App Store, and that is, again, not a problem because MS is nowhere near as indie-unfriendly as Steam.

    The only reason Valve/Steam is afraid is the byproduct of the change, they simply know they will lose relevance but indie devs are the last group in the world that should care. Mind you, there is also the fact that they won’t be able to sell at all to the RT tablet market (just like they cant sell to the iOS market, PlayStation market or XBox market,) we known for a long time Valve been pissy about not being able to sell games directly to console owners.

    Given how much software I would have to replace, I find that's not a cheap thing at all.

    Cheapest thing if you don't like windows 8 is to try one of these Start Menu replacements. My favorite is Start8, costs 5 bucks but there are other free alternatives in the list.


    The average Joe is going to just deal with it before installing Linux. The techier Joe will actually find the link I provided above. The Linux hardcore will keep dreaming.

    Although MS DID try to kill Netscape, they were not able to because Netscape beat them to it themselves. Netscape bloated like crazy with later versions, they broke standards even worse than Microsoft, all in hope they would force web developers to tailor pages to their browser instead of web standards. Worse: Microsoft actually was faster at implementing these "standard deviations" into IE than Netscape was at actually improving their browser.

    All MS did to "kill" Netscape was making the world think that web browsers should be free, but browser sales were never the bulk of Netscape's revenue. The bulk of their revenue was from advertisement in their web portal and server side technology sales and support.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  21. Devilbox-Games

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    When MS doesn't take action to tighten security and make Windows safe: They're deliberately trying to ruin it for everyone.
    When MS does take action to tighten security and make Windows safe: They're deliberately trying to ruin it for everyone.

    The stuff they've done with Win8 which has got so much flak is either stuff the same people have been giving them flak for not doing for years or stuff the same people giving them flak were happy when Apple did similar with OSX. MS are in a no-win situation because whatever they do they will be "evil" and trying to ruin it for everyone, which is a huge shame because Windows 8 is by far the best version of Windows released to date. The improvements over Windows 7 are incredible and the improvements over XP are uncountable. There are some major changes to how it works but most are for the better and the once which aren't can be easily ignored.

    Also, I was under the impression it's user uptake was going even faster than than Windows 7 and storming ahead of Vista. It has only been out a couple of months.
     
  22. Aiursrage2k

    Aiursrage2k

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    I remember TB was speculating in one of his videos saying its not windows 8 they are worried about but the direction windows is going, so it would be windows 9 -- where you have to buy everything from there store which would obviously kill steam.
     
  23. Starsman Games

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    It would also kill Windows. You think some one like Adobe will pay MS 30% to sell Photoshop? Nah, there is no way MS will ever be able to force everyone to only install software from the Win8 app store in Intel compatible hardware.
     
  24. Zenodox

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    @MarigoldFleur
    When did I say they invented EFI? I point out that their sudden adoption of UEFI is conspicuously disingenuous. If I may be blunt, I believe the citation from zdnet is more reliable than your opinion to the contrary.

    @Devilbox Games
    Here is the "increased" security.
    And here is the rate of uptake.

    Anyway, whether we like win8 or not is irrelevant. I'm just pointing out that several large players are pushing games on Linux. Use that information as you like.
     
  25. MarigoldFleur

    MarigoldFleur

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    No, you're pushing a paranoid agenda and saying things like "Microsoft is trying to kill Steam" when multiple people have pointed out to you how preposterous your ideas are on their face. If a company makes games for Windows but also makes a Mac port, they typically do not stop making the Windows version. They simply see that there is a market that they can profit from and are trying to exploit it.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
     
  26. Zenodox

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    The effective world PC software monopoly forces a free version of a competitors product on every consumer but this has nothing to do with their competitor's bankruptcy. No, the competitor coincidentally just happens to go broke at the same time owing to feature creep.

    Dude, I want what drugs you're on :p
     
  27. Devilbox-Games

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    Uhh, you seem to be confusing hardware sales at retail with rate of adoption. NPD has no figures based on sales of upgrades through the web, especially not upgrade sales direct from MS's Windows website which has had very strong sales since it's release.

    As for the rootkit, it's a computer, there's always vulnerabilities. Even Linux has such vulnerabilities. I never said it was 100% devoid of vulnerabilities, just that it was much more secure than previous versions. The Register always blows these things out of proportion and even they stated the work follows on from a similar exploit infecting OSX, a so called "virus free" OS as many fanboys ignorantly say, through nearly identical means. It's not a Windows problem, it's a U/EFI vulnerability. The article even points out that SecureBoot, which you were complaining about, eliminates this problem entirely by making only signed bootloaders execute. Like I said, they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't in some people's eyes.
     
  28. Zenodox

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    Gabe Newell is saying things like "Microsoft is trying to kill Steam" which I find interesting (and possibly accurate). But you have not pointed out "how preposterous the idea is", two people have expressed their opinions with no citations. Opinions to the effect that it is "impossible" for a company with 230B market cap (Microsoft) to supplant a company with 12B market cap (Activision). And you may belive that if you wish.

    But yes you caught me, it's a paranoid agenda driven plot that The New York Times, zdnet, Gabe Newell, Markus Persson and I worked out last night.
     
  29. Starsman Games

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    They never went broke. They got bought out by AoL (at their prime, mind you), who lost interest in them after THEIR closed internet model failed (although before that happened people no longer cared for the sluggish and buggy browser.)

    If I recall correctly, Netscape’s browser sales consisted of about 15% or less of their total revenue, again, almost all of it came from server side software and portal ad revenue.

    Mature...
     
  30. KyleStaves

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    To be fair, that's not really a relevant comparison. Workhorse software is very, very far from moving over to the closed ecosystem. Microsoft has shown no indication that they have any remotely immediate plans to push power-user level software into a closed ecosystem.

    What they have shown, however, with Windows 8 is that they absolutely do have immediate plans to funnel as much casual use into a closed ecosystem as possible. This model isn't a threat to Valve because it makes it impossible for users to install Steam on their computer to buy and play games together; it's a threat to Valve because it makes casual users less likely to do so - since Windows now comes bundled with it's own, similar service.

    They're not afraid of Windows going the way of iOS - they're afraid of it going the way of Android. Sure, every Android user can go ahead and install all sorts of extra market place apps and completely circumvent the Google Play store - but how many do? Currently Steam is the de facto king of the hill when it comes to single-point marketplaces for entertainment software on Windows machines. A threat isn't making that impossible, it's funneling users away from third party marketplaces in favor of the new first party solution.

    Valve right now is at critical mass, they basically get to be the only game in town - which carries all sorts of massive advantages. They aren't afraid of Windows killing Steam this year, or next year, or in the next four years; however, the long term strategy Microsoft has laid out is absolutely a strategy of siphoning as many Steam users as possible. Not necessarily existing Steam users either, but potential new PC gamers entering the market every year. Five years from now where is the kid who just got his first real gaming PC going to go to buy some games via digital distribution? Are they going to find a third party market place that sometimes has better sales, or are they going to use the marketplace that their computer came bundled with that integrates perfectly with their Xbox Live account? When that number becomes significant, how will that impact Valves ability to negotiate content contracts?

    It's not where Microsoft is today, it's where they're going. To be fair, they don't really have a choice though - they're not trying to kill Steam directly, the general public has just shown that they absolutely love easy, seamless app stores. Mac has one, Windows needed one if they wanted to stay relevant as a desktop operating system. There will be collateral damage, and it will impact Valve considerably. It's also why the Steam Box is such a brilliant strategy for them; they won't be able to dominate the Windows based desktop PC that ships without Steam marketplace to the extent that they do today, but they can try to create a compelling product that does ship as part of a Steam gaming ecosystem.
     
  31. Starsman Games

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    I entirely agree with this. But few nitpicks:

    Valve is actually spreading FUD about MS truly locking down Windows (I bet they know it won’t happen, but they are doing their best to spread the FUD.)

    Just like you say, this is not MS intentionally killing Steam, its MS trying to keep up with the times. The App economy in OSX has changed drastically thanks to the built-in app store, and people are starting to expect that kind of feature on any computing device they touch.

    Don’t take me wrong, I think Steam has to fear the progress, but they are coming out a bit childish with all their fear mongering.
     
  32. Mr.T

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    True. If Microsoft didn't have their Xbox gaming arm, Valve would have no reason to be scared. Microsoft+Xbox baggage+Windows App Store is what terrifies companies like Valve. Me personally, am skeptical whether its already too late for valve now and whether they have enough financial muscle to successfully pull off their Steam Linux gaming console move, but they certainly have no other choice at this point. Do or Die time
     
  33. kenaochreous

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    I'm confused is windows 8 really that big of a flop or is it just over-hyped? It seems to me that people are treating this like a doomsday scenario.
     
  34. Starsman Games

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    Windows 8 seems to be selling at a slightly faster pace than Windows 7 sold per month, that hints at OEM sales plus about a 50% extra units going to upgraders.

    That's both, great and bad. I am sure MS expected way higher volume than that, but the numbers are still rather impressive.
     
  35. ChaosMax

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    I'd just like to add to the secure boot discussion mentioned above I bought an Asus laptop a few months back when Win8 just came out and was unable to disable secure boot in the bios and get Linux installed. I ended up taking the laptop back to the store. (I'm a pretty advanced user too, built and fixed many a computer)
     
  36. MarigoldFleur

    MarigoldFleur

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    Except you didn't work anything out. You completely misinterpreted what people said and went so far as to completely change what they were saying entirely. I don't need to point out how the idea is preposterous, you need to point out how it's sane.
     
  37. Zenodox

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    @MarigoldFleur
    Rather than attacking me personally (because no one is interested in your or my opinion after all) just read the article.
     
  38. MarigoldFleur

    MarigoldFleur

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    I've read it. Where does it say "Microsoft is trying to kill Steam"?

    Nowhere.

    Because it doesn't.

    There is no grand conspiracy to jump ship to Linux. They are simply entering another market.

    Also it's pretty funny that you keep citing articles from before everyone found out that the only thing the Windows 8 store would deal in was Metro apps.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  39. Starsman Games

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    That article does two things:

    1) It quotes opinions (quotes of opinions are meaningless unless your goal is to put someone in the frying pan for their statements)
    2) Basically lie.

    Where did it lie? Here:

    First, OS X is not a closed platform. It's still accessible to all. In fact, the same fears mongering was going around when Apple announced the Mac App Store. So far, it's been just pure win for most developers (for the exception of certain Utility makers that can't sandbox their apps, and those never lost anything, they still selling the way they were selling before.)

    Anyways, another hilarious statement by Gabe Newell: “I think that we’re going to lose some of the top-tier PC [original equipment manufacturers]. They’ll exit the market."

    The funny bit of this statement is that many "top-tier PC manufacturers" are going to exit the market with or without windows 8. The PC market is suffering a lot, mostly due to the OEM's own race to the bottom, getting users used to sub-$400 computers. Now they find it hard to compete with minuscule margins, and even harder to keep up with the advancements in technology. So, yea, OEMs will exit the market, but it will have nothing to do with Win8. That's why I find it funny, it’s like knowing a flood is coming, and then, post knoledge, start preaching the Mayan calendar indicates the end of the world and that should a flood hit, the Mayan will be proven right.
     
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