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[BETA RELEASE] Amplify Impostors

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by Amplify_Ricardo, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. kloogens

    kloogens

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    ImpostorComparison2.jpg ImpostorComparison.jpg

    Sure mate. Here is the screenshot. This issue is uniform, it does it for all objects I've made an impostor for thus far.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  2. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    That's odd, should be pretty close. Can you send us that asset for additional tests? (model, material, textures, impostors asset and textures)

    We're available privately via support@amplify.pt
     
  3. kloogens

    kloogens

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    Yeah, I'm happy to send you a model, but perhaps it is something else like a project setting or something? I say that because it is doing this with all the models I impostor, different models created by different publishers if that helps.


    Edit: Okay I created the package but I get tons of errors when I import it into a new project and it doesn't work.

    The original project is huge so I can't send that.

    Electric Bagaloo Edit 2: Okay I got the package working. Sent to address above. Email will be from kloogens@.....
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  4. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Thanks for sending it over, we just got back to you. Feel free to continue the conversation via email, I'm just going to share this here for reference.

    upload_2021-3-8_11-4-41.png
    (Impostor on the left)

    From our very simple test it seems to be working as expected. This would hint that something on the actual scene configuration/lighting, or post processing, could be affecting the impostor. This does not of course exclude the possibility that the issue in on the Impostors side, but we're going to need additional details, as requested via email.

    Thanks!
     
  5. Image3d

    Image3d

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    HI Ricardo...I need a Terrain vegetation tutorial...
     
  6. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Hi, that's a bit broad, can you be more specific?

    There are no special requirements, you basically create your trees and use them on the terrain.
     
  7. modernator24

    modernator24

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    Is this not work for vertex lit shader and mobile shaders? I purchased this to optimize meshes in my mobile game, however, baked impostors look terrible, regardless its size. Each object in my scene has a large number of vertices and causes massive performance impact in some devices. I really wish to use this in my mobile project.
     
  8. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Hey there!

    As mentioned in the product description and wiki, Amplify Impostors requires a Deferred shader for baking; this is usually the problem most users encounter. The alternative here is to use a compatible shader for baking, such as the Standard Unity shader. Alternatively, if you're experienced with shader development, you can also look into creating a Custom Bake and Runtime shader with our editor; this is an advanced topic, I don't recommend it unless you have previous shader development experience.

    What shader do your assets currently use?

    Please feel free to reach out to us at sales@amplify.pt if you feel that Amplify Impostors is not right for your project.
     
    PutridEx likes this.
  9. gamemakerdre

    gamemakerdre

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    Hello, im using this with the Cscape City system but my imposters are coming out white like in the following images.






    Any assistance is greatly appreciated. I dont know if the links are working but the iumages are attached as well.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Hi, probably the issue I just mentioned above. Is it using custom shaders?
     
  11. gamemakerdre

    gamemakerdre

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    Yes I believe it is.
     
  12. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Probably not compatible; try using the Standard Unity shader/material.​
     
  13. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Spring Sale is upon us!

    50% OFF all our products, bundle or individually. Be sure to use code SPRING2021 for an additional 5-10% OFF on purchases over $100. (for all assets on sale, not just ours)

    Learn more: Asset Store
     
  14. colin_young

    colin_young

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    I've had a slightly crazy thought: I am building an environment that has a lot of very large trees. I don't need the ability for the player to get up into the canopy, so the viewpoint is always going to be > 10m for the leaf canopy, but I do want the trunk and major branches to be fairly detailed, at least not obviously cubes or octagons or billboards. Is there some way that trees could be constructed so that up close they were a detailed trunk mesh + a bunch of imposters representing the leaf canopy, and as you got farther away they turned into more traditional imposters/billboards, i.e. a single imposter for the entire tree?

    Specifically I'm trying to model a large number of Southern Live Oaks (large open understory with a crown spanning 25m and 15m tall) and slash pine (18-30m tall), so from any vantage point most of the tree will be far enough away that there is no need to use full geometry. Things would be easy if I could create a fully detailed model in Blender and then bake parts of it to imposters (e.g. sections of the oak canopy, or branch clusters with fully detailed pine needles for the slash pine) but I understand there are certain limitations on the shaders, and I don't know if that level of details (potentially 10s of millions of vertices) is compatible with wind, etc. in Unity (and am I going to lose the wind when I convert to an imposter?). Essentially treat a tree as a trunk and branch structure with full 3d bushes stuck all over it. I realize that's kind of what many tree generators do (e.g. M-Tree uses a quad structure to represent a complex, albeit, flat, branch structure), but I'd like to take advantage of the improved visuals of imposters to boost the appearance of my tree canopy.

    Has anyone tried anything like this? It seems that for trees it's an all-or-nothing proposition with imposters, at least for out of the box solutions. One thought is literally doing the trunk and bush thing -- don't create a single tree, but instead create several detailed "bushes", and then stick those all over the trunk structure, but it's less automated than using a tree generator (M-Tree, SpeedTree, etc) or Blender particle systems, although I suppose that might allow the LOD system to kick in at a sub-tree level.

    Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm probably going to give it a try in the next few weeks if nobody says "that's not going to work/get you the results you're hoping for and this is specifically why" under my usual modus operandi of "too dumb to know I can't do that."

    Thanks!
     
  15. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Hey there!

    Sounds like a good use for Impostors, it just really depends on how close do you need them as the effect starts to breakdown when you're too close.

    In any case, it's fully compatible with Unity's LOD system, you can think of impostors as regular meshes. You could very well have a Master LOD group(mesh and main impostors) with other sub-lods to swap between sub-meshes and their impostors.

    Really up to your requirements, just be sure that you're using a compatible shader such as the Unity standard or speedtree.
     
  16. colin_young

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    I'm assuming the Vegetation Engine shaders are also okay (I bought that add-on).
     
  17. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Right you are, my bad, should have mentioned that as well; I was listing only what you get on Vanilla Unity.

    Vegetation Engine and the Impostor Add-on are by far the most reliable solution give that it's fully compatible with our custom shader requirements.
     
    PutridEx and colin_young like this.
  18. colin_young

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    And to think I only bought TVE because I'm lazy and didn't want to bother having to figure out 15 different vegetation shader systems :)

    On a related note, have you seen Jason Booth's new Better Lit Shader? Will it be compatible with Amplify Imposters?
     
  19. jjejj87

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    Just bought this but it seems like it is not working on HDRP11 is this the intended behavior?

    All shaders are pink. Or am I doing something wrong?
     
  20. Amplify_Ricardo

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    That's an interesting question, possibly; however we've not tested it with Amplify Impostors yet. (soon)

    Not the intended behavior, assuming you opened the HDRP samples.

    Did you import the HDRP package? http://wiki.amplify.pt/index.php?ti...y_Impostors/Manual#Scriptable_Render_Pipeline
    ( AmplifyImpostors\Plugins\EditorResources\RenderPipelinePackages )
     
  21. Jumpovertheage

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  22. Amplify_Ricardo

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    Hey there, I don't think that's going to work. Currently, standard baking is only supported if the shader exposes a Deferred path, such as Unity Standard shaders, as described in the project page and wiki; most custom lighting solutions for toon rendering are forward only.
     
  23. Jumpovertheage

    Jumpovertheage

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    Ok, thanks for the quick reply. I think I was too eager to jump on what looked like a perfect solution!

    Is this something likely to change in future, or is this a fundamental issue with the way the impostors work?
     
  24. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Hey no problem, be sure to contact sales@amplify.pt if you find that it does not fit your requirements.

    I don't think this will change in the near future, it's currently tied to the way the bakes are done on our end.
     
  25. colin_young

    colin_young

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    A data point: apparently trying to bake an imposter from a mesh with 20 million + vertices can crash your system (MacOS, 16GB RAM).

    I should probably check my mesh sizes before trying to bake. Whoops.
     
  26. Amplify_Ricardo

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    That's very relative, you can bake several millions of polygon. What can be an issue is memory when baking textures over 4k. 20 Million shouldn't be a problem, which resolution did you use? Is it a single mesh or multiple objects and materials?

    In any case, please elaborate, we'll run similar tests.
     
  27. colin_young

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    Interesting. I just assumed I was trying to do something unreasonable. I do know I missed a few steps in importing the TVE shaders (initially I didn't use the TVE shaders in the baking, and then when I figured that out I forgot to import the URP shaders), and I left things mostly at default settings. I was trying to bake a single mesh (the leaves) only. I realize that's probably not the best approach for visual reasons, but I wanted to do a quick and dirty test of the imposters, and I had misread my statistics in Blender and underestimated the number of vertices involved by at least an order of magnitude.

    My system isn't exactly a powerhouse: 2019 16" MacBook Pro 8 core i9 w/ 16GB RAM, AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4 GB/Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB (although I really hope it was using the AMD). I also did a naive/dumb straight import from Blender after simply converting my particle system to instantiated objects. Unfortunately this Blender model also has another tree model in it that also has individual pine needles modeled for a rather large pine tree, in addition to the large oak tree (with individual leaves) that I was trying to bake. I may have forgotten to unpack the prefab and delete the additional geometry before attempting to bake, or I may not have. The performance of the editor otherwise was surprisingly decent even with the monster of a tree model that I had imported.

    I've since rethought the workflow and am working on a script to post-process and use stand-ins from Blender for the particles, then swap in the real particles, which I've previously baked to an imposter from a detailed model of a branch with individual leaves. It really is quite a mess as I'm experimenting both with creating trees in Blender and trying to bake imposters in Unity, all at the same time. I should probably clean up my workflow a bit, even if just for my own sanity.

    If you are interested I'd be happy to share the Blender model or a Unity scene demonstrating the issue (assuming I can reproduce it after cleaning up a bit and starting a fresh scene).
     
  28. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Thank you for the explanation, we appreciate it. I'm not sure I understood what you're doing with particles on the blender side, I'm assuming that you're using that to scatter objects but please let us know.

    The specs are somewhat on the lower end, memory wise, but it should be ok.(needs to be tested)

    We'd be happy to test an FBX file in Unity, it would be great if you could provide it already in a demo scene.
     
  29. colin_young

    colin_young

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    I have been able to consistently crash my system (that's the entire user session on MacOS, not just Unity) by attempting the bake a second object. If I quit Unity and then set up the second object for baking it is fine. I can also rebake objects without issue, including switching from spherical to octahedron or back on all the objects already set up for baking. These are relatively small meshes (all around 27,000 triangles).

    Settings are: spherical/TVE veg spherical, 32 axis frames, 8192 texture size.

    As the the particles in Blender, yes, I'm using that to scatter, but in order to show up in Unity they need to be instantiated, otherwise nothing is there. I think it's irrelevant to the issue.

    To be clear, I think this is a fantastic asset, so I hope you don't interpret my posts as complaints. I know how hard it is to develop software and you need lots of people doing all sorts of crazy things to find where all the bugs are.
     
  30. Amplify_Ricardo

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    Hey there,

    That does make sense, 8k texture baking is extremely demanding; considering your specs, Unity could be running out of resources there. Do you see the same crashes with 1k textures? If so, we could really use a test scene for additional testing. (sent to support@amplify.pt)

    Let us know, all feedback and test cases welcome.

    Not sure how that works on the Blender side regarding particles; it should work as long as they are regular meshes in Unity.
     
  31. colin_young

    colin_young

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    Forget I even mentioned Blender particles. :)

    Does it matter about the lighting/scene setup when generating imposters (other than having the correct render pipeline)? e.g. could I set up a scene with nothing at all except what I am creating imposters for, bake them there and then use them in my real scene? I have what I would call a "spotty" understanding of shaders and lighting, especially in Unity. I understand some very technical aspects, but then have massive gaps in the basics. My scene is a bit large (terrain, Microsplat, EasyRoads3d) so I may be overtaxing things.

    It sounds like it may be a Unity bug (IMHO exhausting application resources shouldn't take down the OS), but I will try several experiments with different texture sizes to see where things break. Won't be able to do that for several hours though since I'm technically still at my day job.
     
  32. colin_young

    colin_young

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    @Amplify_Ricardo I attempted to replicate the issue in a standalone scene. I was able to create as many imposters as I wanted and edit and rebake them without any trouble. Until I attempted to bake 32 axis frames with a texture size of 8192. The odd thing is even though Unity crashed and took down the entire Mac OS user session, it did bake the textures. So I think there is a resource issue, possibly a bug in Unity, and maybe a memory leak related to Amplify (possibly the same bug that crashes everything, possibly something separate that triggers the other issue).

    Since it appears to be some sort of resource limit on my system, I'm not sure it's worth your time investigating. If you feel differently I'm happy to share the scene though.
     
  33. Amplify_Ricardo

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    Hey there,

    I think what's happening here is not so much a bug but an edge case where you're running out of memory; 8k textures are very demanding, definitely not recommended for general use.(not too common) As for a memory leak, we're not aware of any but we are limited to the Unity processes when it comes to baking; and yes, Unity can bring or machine to a complete halt in some cases.

    What exactly are you trying to bake? (single prop, tree, an example would be great)
     
  34. colin_young

    colin_young

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    I guess I'd call Unity allowing code to consume all memory, and then crash, a bug, but that's just my opinion :)

    I'm trying to create imposters for branch clusters, that I will then instantiate on my tree (in MTree or Sapling terms, the last 2 levels of branching + leaves) on the theory that they would look better than planar, cross, diamond, etc. geometries that are usually used to avoid having millions of individual leaves and twigs modeled. The major issue for my admittedly rather specific use-case is that what I really need is an octahedral ring from 0 to -40 degrees + a planar billboard for viewing angles < 40 degrees below. The trade-off in texture size vs. # of frames needed to get decent visuals just requires texture sizes that are far too large for the amount of detail I'm hoping to represent. It might be an interesting extension to your imposters to allow for control over where the frames are concentrated, e.g. equator-weighted, or more going around than up and down or visa-versa.

    I am however able to make imposters for my twigs (5-6 branches + 8-10 leaves) that look amazing even at extremely close viewing distances (close enough to cause leaves to clip out in the original). That alone will probably gain an order of magnitude reduction in geometry. I think my original attempt was far too ambitious. So that gives me some additional ideas, like having detailed lower branches (e.g. up to 4 m) using imposters for small twig clusters and switch to planar or cross representation above that (the loss of detail with imposters is more objectionable than the geometry at those distances). I'm thinking I can probably also use the imposters for pine needle clusters and get superior results even at close viewing. I'll give that a try after I'm done with my live oaks.

    It's helpful for me to play with things this way and break things. I understand faster that way than trying to read about it and predict things. It seems like a good rule of thumb is that the smaller the object you are making an imposter for the closer you can view it and still have it look good and the smaller the texture can be.
     
  35. Kojote

    Kojote

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    Hi!

    First of all, thank you for this great asset! Finally a wonderful alternative to the billboards! :)

    I was now able to create very nice imposters for several trees. Only for two trees it doesn't work for some reason. I created them like all the other trees. It's about the willows, on the left side of the picture you see the LOD00, on the right side the imposter. As you can see, the colour difference is enormous.

    What I also noticed is that the files that are created cannot be opened. Photoshop thinks the files are corrupted.

    I have now tried several times to recreate these trees, always the same result. All other trees work without problems.

    Does anyone have an idea where the problem is?

    Blue Willow.jpg
     
  36. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    I suppose you could call it a bug, the questions is really what exactly is halting it; is it Unity or is it the OS trying to counter the memory use? There's a lot of interplay, maybe the GPU driver halted, hard to track down and avoid when processes are already being executed.

    That's an interesting use, we wouldn't recommend 8k there but I'd love to see some shots. It's important to consider the additional rendering cost/shader complexity at closers distances in relation to lower poly geometry, does depend on the project. Additional baking control is planned for future versions.

    The main factor is really the distance from which it is rendered.

    Good luck with your experiments, I look forward to seeing what you create.


    Hey there,

    What exactly is on the hierarchy of that faulty tree? We could use an example of the resulting bake and original asset, something could have gone wrong there.

    Which files exactly did you try to open? (it's just regular textures)

    Just to confirm, you're baking this prefab and you see the problem immediately after the bake?

    Please do share details.
     
  37. Kojote

    Kojote

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    Hi!

    The Hirarchy looks like this:

    Root
    - LOD00
    - LOD01
    - Imposter

    Root has only LOD and Amplify Imposter. I see the mistake immediately, too.

    I only tried to open the graphic files because they look very strange (blue) in the preview in Unity and also in Windows. When I try to open them, both Windows and Photoshop tell me that the files are damaged.

    EDIT: After a long time of trying, I was able to create the 4 files and they can now be opened in Photoshop. The SpecularSmothness is light blue, which would explain the blue tone, and the albedo is correct in the colours, but too bright.
     
  38. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Hey there,

    -Can we test that on our end? (Prefab, model, textures, material)
    -Which shader did you use on the original asset?

    We're available privately via support@amplify.pt.
     
  39. Kojote

    Kojote

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    I use the Custom Tree Importer for the trees. Unfortunately, I can't give it to them because it's not a free asset. Do you use it as well?
     
  40. Amplify_Ricardo

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    Not a problem in that case. Just confirm which shaders are used, the problem could be there if it's custom.
     
  41. Kojote

    Kojote

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    The problem also exists with Unity's standard shader. I will send you a group of stones once. Simple texture with LOD group, all the Imposter creates are black textures. Nothing is displayed in the billboard mesh either.
     
  42. Kojote

    Kojote

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    Big mistake on my part, I had installed the LOD group, but forgot to enter the object in the LOD. Of course, no Imposter can be created if it does not have an initial object.

    The stone group works very well with it, even the colours are right this time.
     
  43. Amplify_Ricardo

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    So it's working now? It's really important to keep an eye on the "Reference Meshes" of the Impostor component, this is what it will actually bake.

    Let us know, we'd be happy to assist you.
     
  44. jjejj87

    jjejj87

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    Hey Ricardo,
    I have been trying to get this to work with HDRP11, 2021.1f6 all week with no luck. I installed the HDRP pack (it only worked on my second try...don't know why) and seems to bake well as the textures look right, but the shader output on screen (both game and scene) is a blurry mess, as if the shader is trying to interpolate between images...something is going wrong seriously...
     
  45. Amplify_Ricardo

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    Hey there!

    Which shader are you using on the original asset?
     
  46. Duende

    Duende

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    Hello, does the asset have WebGL support?
     
  47. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    Not officially but it can be used with WebGL 2.x or higher.
     
    Duende likes this.
  48. thecali

    thecali

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    Hi,
    i am trying to do an impostor bake with very simple custom shaders. I am using Amplify Shader Editor and my project is using URP, Unity version 2020.3.6f1.

    Sadly, the documentation on costum baking isn't very helpfull, since it is a very specific and complicated example.

    What do i have to do to simply bake with the simplest possible costum shader...
    a URP PBR shader with a single Color input?
    upload_2021-5-18_9-47-46.png

    my baking shader looks like this:
    upload_2021-5-18_9-48-45.png

    My runtime shader:
    upload_2021-5-18_9-49-14.png

    All i am getting is an a black albedo texture for the bake and an invisible impostor.


    To exclude any error i've tried to convert the example scene to work with URP, but that doesn't work for me either. I've converted every shader to URP (the original colorByPosition shader and the 2 shaders required for baking). In the baking preset i choose Lightweight Pipeline, since URP isn't an option there. My result looks like this:
    upload_2021-5-18_9-38-58.png
    Also i am getting an error:
    "Shader error in 'Hidden/Baking Barrels': undeclared identifier '_MainTex' at line 188 (on d3d11)"
    I don't know what went wrong, since i've not touched the "_MainTex" property in any of the shaders.

    Thanks for your help.

     
  49. Amplify_Ricardo

    Amplify_Ricardo

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    I'm afraid shader simplicity is not necessarily a factor here, using custom shaders with AI is not a very user friendly process; this is an advanced topic that we don't recommend on most cases.

    What are you using on the original asset shader? One of the main requirements is that the Properties must match, you have no properties on yours, let us know a bit more and we'll try to assist.
     
  50. thecali

    thecali

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    thanks for your answer!

    Changing the color node to a property was the key and with your help i've manged to get some results. Still, i struggle to get the normal and depth information right (at least it seems so... the objects shading still seems off). After randomly trying different approaches, here is a setup for the bake shader i've ended up with.

    upload_2021-5-19_9-48-15.png

    Any tipps on baking the normal information?
    Thanks.

    Edit.: In my original shader i don't use a normal map. Only relevant input is color.

    Edit2: Removing the World Normal node produces better results.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
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