Been trying to make an MMO since 2007

TLDR ; Should I build and release the bare minimum mmo/online rpg game that can be done in a reasonable amount of time and then focus on marketing and building a community while adding to and polishing my product? This is instead of spending years on making the product alone in isolation and THEN releasing it to the world.


Hello Unity Community,


The title says it. I've been trying to make an mmo or atleast an 100+ player online rpg of some sorts for 12 years since I first signed up for gamedev.net back in 2007. I still can’t do what was originally in my head all those years ago but I have made progress. I can make regular online games (maybe 12 players in a match or whatever) through these game engines we have now and just coding from scratch with dx11 or opengl and windows sockets. I know how to program, 3d sculpt and model, animate, create vfx, and can do some concepting and promo art. I may not be as fast and the work might not have as insane quality as someone who does nothing but one area, but I found in the past year or so and with good references I can produce good enough results, for me, in each of those areas. The only thing I have trouble with is rigging. My rigs pretty much fall apart when I need to do something complex but there are auto-riggers that automatically produce way more complicated rigs than I have the patience to learn to create myself. I’ve never been interested at all in sound – I just find what I need on the net. Also, over the years I have bought tons of assets for all sorts of different things. In particular, there is an asset called Atavism supposedly for MMO’s that seems to be decent. I have that too. Another thing is ummorpg with Fhiz addons. I also tried another technology outside of Unity like Hero Engine. Got all that stuff lol….


So why am I saying all this? I’m saying this because all this stuff I know and all these assets like already made models, sounds, scripts, etc, is still not enough. Twelve years of trying to learn this stuff and it would take another 12 (most likely more) years to actually put all my knowledge to use and actually create a refined product. I know myself and I know I’m not going to be able to sit down for like 20 years on something and see it through to the end. Every time I’ve started a project saying “THIS TIME I’ll see it through to the end” I quit after like 3 months. The problem is that I get no feedback. Why spend all that time making something if you’re not sure someone is going to actually enjoy your creation in the end?


So now I thought I’d try to do something different. I’ll put the absolute bare minimum up for a game…maybe you can kill monsters and level, find armors and items, upgrade those armors and items, grind gold, spend the gold on certain sinks I put into the game to name a few things. Then over time just keep adding stuff because doesn’t it make sense to at least have people enjoying your creation while you refine it more and add more content? Instead of just keeping to yourself for years. I’ve thought also that building a community and learning all about marketing the game is just as important as the art and the tech the game has. I know next to nothing about marketing and building a community so I think it’s time to learn. It would keep me more motivated to have people that actually want to play my creation…it would give me the drive to refine it more and more.


So anyways, what do you guys think? Is this new strategy of focusing on the bare minimum you can do in a reasonable amount of time then just marketing and building a community while you add to and polish your product a good idea? I’ve talked to some people in my real life about this and they said I should work on finishing what I have in my head first no matter how long it takes then release. They are not game developers though. No matter how much I try to explain they cannot grasp the work that goes into this and how I simply cannot stay motivated for these long periods of time without some incentive. I don’t care about the chance of money anymore…I just wanna make a fun game that people can at least get SOME enjoyment out of.

 

No. Build the bare minimum what you think is the core of your gameplay. Then do not release it and do not market it. You need to playtest it. Yourself and anyone and everyone else you can find. Literally, talk to strangers on the street and ask them to playtest your game.
And ask them to give you honest opinion on it.

And prepare yourself to hear/read all those opinions, because if you're doing this at the first time, it can be harsh if you overvalue other people's opinion.
Then when you cried yourself out in the darkest corner you can find in your house you need to address the problems. What is fun in your game? Keep it. What is not? Try to fix it and make it fun. Does not work? Throw it out.

Rinse and repeat. And finally when you have something fun to play, throw out the entire code but keep the design and start to build your game. And when it's nearly done you can start to market and whatnot.

This is we call "fail fast".

 

You can't compare your situation to someone who is a full time professional developer. And by that I mean making an mmo that is actually good, isn't for hobbyists. What took you 12 years to learn probably takes a professional 1, or less, and they learn it right not mostly wrong. That's just the difference there is working in a professional environment surrounded by a lot of really smart people who have been there done that. Plus you would be working on real production games, in a real business. Plus the mindset difference is huge also.

As a hobbyist my suggestion is embrace the status, and the limitations that come with it. You don't have to take it seriously. if you enjoy making an mmo, make an mmo. On the other hand if you want to make a game that has a chance of an actual player base, make something within your limits.

Making games can be a lot of fun. But releasing a game that people like is a huge rush. As an indie you probably can't have both, hell most of us who do it professionally often have to choose between the games we would love to make, and the ones that have a high chance of success. The two don't generally go together.

 

Like snacktime said, but even more - you can't compare yourself to gaming dev *corporations* who have armies of low level developers, artists, and most importantly quality testers and bug finders. 1 professional is one thing, a team of them getting paid to get to market is a level single nano indie developers to be honest, may just not be able to reach. Unless its the rare oddity that strikes it big.

Lurking-Ninja great points; but I would add open your beta to testers you know (ask anyone and everyone who might even be interested in gaming) AND make it publicly available in whatever beta-early release format is available on the store of choice. Combining marketing and cold/warm blasts for testing help accomplishes both - as long as what you have to show to a larger drawn in audience is good enough to not get dissed. It is a tough balance.

I came across a bunch of posts about "Kerbal Space Program" when I was building a game, and there is a good unity development video about it - but one of the key points the dude made in the very beginning was "we always prioritized putting out something that was playable". So yes, put it out there before you believe it is all spit and polished, get tons of feedback, and prepare yourself for many of the things you thought might not be a big deal to be deal breakers and force some fundamental re-design, or some of the things you were worried about to not be noticed at all.

Building software in the business world is the same deal, at least in smaller more nimble companies who adopt "agile development" - deliver, get feedback, tweak, release new version, etc.

At the end of the day, your determination is admirable.

 

I've been hoping for one of you MMO developers to come back for years. I think I'll indulge briefly in an "I told you so".

Joking aside, you've identified your project attention span is about three months. So why not work to that? Scope a project that can be completed in three months. Then work to it and release it. Then do something else.

Play to your strengths. Most of us don't have the right temperament to sit in the basement and do the same project for fifteen years running.

 

12 years is just too long to spend on any game. Don't spend 12 more. By the time you're finished humanity will have reached enlightenment and the cows will have all come home.

Reassess the scope to be something you can finish in 1-2 years, and get a taste of success.

 

Sunk cost.

 

"Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a long one making it." - Some famous person

 

I also want to make an MMO, but I plan to start it in 10+ years. In the meantime I plan to build-up my company so that I can handle this project. In order to make a good, modern MMO of the TESO scope you need around 100 men working for around 5 years. That's around 1 MILLION hours of work. Making an MMO solo is futile.

 

I'd never want to make an MMO. The market is severely consolidated right now between a select few titles, and the upkeep costs means, unless you somehow manage to go toe to toe with some real heavy hitters, that you will probably end up just haemorrhaging money.

 

Realm of the Mad God proved that indie MMOs are possible.

But you have to *seriously* limit the scope and the content creation costs. And even then, it's going to be a real technical challenge, even for very experienced developers.

 

Realm of the Mad God also proved that indie MMOs being possible are severe outliers because it's really the only one people can really point to.

 

RuneScape?

 

Runescape kinda has the benefit of getting in way before MMOs were the hottest S*** around, so it's a biiiiiiit of a stretch. Like, launching an MMO in 2019 (or even 2009) is a lot different from launching one in 2001

 

JK, if you like doing it - do it.

 

A lot of people spend their whole lives fixing up the same yacht or the same classic car, so why not the same Unity project?

 

Kinda like this reply. For hobbyists or people where the money is not the main motivator... Why the heck not?

 

Why not? Imagine the post mortem, "20 years later, here is my game". In a way, that's really kinda awesome.

This kind of post is a "what am I doing with my life" kind of post. So look. What you need to figure out is what your goals are and what your costs are.

For me, I worked on a project for a little less than 4 years. At the end, I had to accept that I couldn't complete it to a level I was satisfied with (in other words, the game still wasn't fun). That process sucked.

In the last couple months, me and @BIGTIMEMASTER decided to build a small scoped game in a short time frame (originally 6 weeks, we ended up blowing the deadline and will spend 3 months total).

In the end, we will have a shipped, polished, competently made game. That feels good. Hopefully it will even make some money (that feels better).

If you want to finish a game, design a game you can finish. On the other hand, if you want to invest the time and effort and spend 20 years on a game. Do it. But follow through and spend the full 20 years on it.

 

You should always go hard for the knock-out, but if you over-commit too early, you won't be adaptable when things don't go as planned. If the game flops, is it gonna crush you? Should never go into a fight that you cannot eat the worst possible outcome from.

I'm definitely no expert, but I imagine the crux of a marketable MMO is filling servers on day one. Anybody buys the game and loads into dead server, I think your are done. The genius of the game alone is not enough.

 

We need to make sure that this forum is still here when he is done. I want to see it.

 

Here is slight difference.
The game dev tech evolves so quick, making your game art potentially obsolete in few years time, unless taking specific timeless art, which will fit into medieval period (of PC gaming). Minecraft is so cubic, it can not be less than that but is appealing to many. But World of Warcraft may feel already outdated, when look into original art. Even tho, it went through some rework.

Classic car on other hand can keep and even increase in value.

If making just for fun, sure keep doing. But consider fact, we got now tones of tools, which would make many of your work now unnecessary. Tons of animations available online. RPG assets available. New rendering tools if that is important. New camera handling options. And many more.

I suspect, OP could rework own game in few months now, based on own experience and modern tools/assets. That would further accelerate potentially, to reaching own goal.

Of course, need be careful with 3drd party assets, as they often go out off support, in least expected moment.

But as mentioned, if is just hobby for sake of making things work, go for it. Other than that I would look if there are any other similar games, and may enjoy actually play them, rather than making one, for next 20+ years