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Atavism by Neojac

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by cookimage, Jul 1, 2014.

  1. cookimage

    cookimage

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    Atavism Beta version has been submitted to Unity Asset store, awaiting for approval. If you need additional information you can find it on our Atavism website www.atavismonline.com

    Atavism opens up the development of MMO games to everyone regardless of programming knowledge or artistic ability. Integrated with the Unity engine as the client, developers now have direct access to one of the highest anticipated MMO engines in the market.



    You don't need to have a million dollar budget anymore to develop a MMO game as we have already done most of the heavy lifting with pre-designed plugins for every system, all you need to do is setup what stats you want to use with them. If you really want systems of your own you can also code your own plugin systems and even share or sell them to other developers who are using Atavism.

    As we have been working on this we have had over 150 Development Companies test and use Atavism already in the closed Alpha release to polish and make sure Atavism meets the needs of what game developers want from a engine like this. With that we have already developed over 18 different plugins that allows you to customize your game easily without any coding and linked them into a Editor that you open up in Unity for easy access.



    Key Features
    • Data Base Plugin: Setup your database information and be able to link directly to it through the editor which allows you to do changes instantly to things pertaining to your MMO game.
    • Instance Plugin: Create and setup new instances in your game which can be anything from Dungeons you want players to explore or even a different world in one MMO.
    • Accounts Plugin: Control all player accounts from this plugin and set different access levels such as setting certain players as GM's in your game.
    • Mobs Plugin: Create any mob template from a click of a button with stats and loot you want them to drop, then spawn these mobs in-game where ever you want in real time. You can even spawn a dragon right in front of other players while they are standing next to you in game.
    • Loot Tables plugin: Setup different loot tables and drop chances of items for your mob templates.
    • Factions Plugin: Use this plugin to easily setup your different factions in your game as well as what their standings are to one another.
    • Quests Plugin: Create different types of Quests for your players which you then add to any NPC you want to give the quest out. Create a chain of quests that can guide your players through your storyline.
    • Dialogue Plugin: Create different dialogues for your NPC's. You can also use this system to allow multiple outcomes in the storyline depending on what a player chooses while speaking to a NPC or even allow access to certain quests only if a player asks a NPC certain questions.
    • Items Plugin: Create all the items for your game with this, add different stats to items and functionality.
    • Skills Plugin: A full skill system which allows you to open up skills when players level up with XP or level up their skill by using it like the old UO style game play. The choice is yours.
    • Abilities Plugin: Create different abilities for your players that can get when they have a certain skill. They can use these abilities in a wide range of ways from combat to crafting to professions.
    • Effects Plugin: Build your own effects for your game to make it unique like a melee-strike effect that deals physical damage or a magic effect that heals your player.
    • Coord Effects Plugin: Setup different animations, particles and more to run on events such as play an attack animation and a particle when you use a strike ability.
    • Stats Plugin: Design any type of stat you want for your game with this plugin.
    • Player Character Setup Plugin: Setup what races, stats and classes you want your players to start with as well as where you want them to spawn and how you want starter characters to look like.
    • In Game Mailing System: You can send and receive mail in game and add in items or ask for currency on delivery.
    • Currency Plugin: Setup currencies for your game
    Systems In place:
    • Merchant System: Setup NPC merchants to sell and buy items
    • Lands System: A claim system that allows you to setup claims and sell them to other players which then allows them to place object on that area like buildings and so forth.
    With all these plugins we also have standard things like chat channel, combat , full inventory system and much more in Atavism. The best part is you can easily use and incorporate other assets from the Unity Asset store into Atavism which will expand it even further for you .




    Current RoadMap for 2015
    Added June 2015

    We will be rolling the updates out in a series of releases and these items are what we are expecting to release with each release but are not set in stone. These are our own systems and plugins we will be supporting.

    Roadmap 2.5 -> Full Release

    Next Release: 2.5
    Date: Mid July
    • Pathfinding - Basic NavMesh system allowing mobs to avoid obstacles and find their way around the world. Static only, improvements to be added in later releases.
    • Backdating - Changes made to item/character templates can be applied to exiting characters and items
    • Item Mall system – through mail system
    • Management Tools for Server - server stop/start, current server activity, view event logs etc
    • Claim updates - permissions, object states/building/damaging/fixing.
    • Mounts - yay

    Release 2.6
    Date: End of August/Early September
    • Player movement authorisation - using NavMesh system
    • Trading
    • Grouping
    • Interactive Objects system - Allows the placing of interactive objects in the world that players can interact with
    • uGUI - Update default Atavism UI to use the uGUI system.
    • Chat channels system - Improve the chat system to support numerous channels and tabs

    Release 2.7
    Date: Mid-Late October
    • AI improvements – rewrite base system: Patrolling, Roam Radius, combat state machine, basics, aggro radius modifying, power rating, reaction behaviours
    • Friends list/ignore list
    • Basic Guild system
    • Combat improvements - add in aoe support

    Full Release:
    Date: End of Year
    • Arena
    • Pets
    • API tidy up
    • New Demo world

    Please not once again these are not hard dates but a estimate and some features might not make it into a release or some dates might change.

    License Structure

    Our license structure is setup to accommodate developers so that you pay for what you need. You can buy the Starter License and Upgrade at a lower cost later to higher tiers.

    Unity Asset Store Link

    Starter License $70 Buy From Store
    • Allows 200 Concurrent users Online at any time.
    • Includes Atavism Unity Editor with over 18 plugins.
    • Includes Atavism Server Software.
    Veteran License Full $270 Buy From Store
    • Allows 450 Concurrent users Online at a time.
    • Includes everything else from Starter License.
    • Has Server AGIS source code that allows the creation of plugins.
    Expert License Full $600 Buy From Store
    • Allows 1500 Concurrent users Online at a time.
    • Includes everything else from Starter and Veteran License.
    Legendary License Full $1500 Buy From Store
    • Allows Unlimited Concurrent users Online at a time.
    • Includes everything else from other Licenses.
    All Licenses are per seat.

    Video Tutorials

    Here is some Video Tutorials and you can also visit our Atavism Wiki for more information.



     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
  2. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    I was about to buy but at 270$ for an early alpha full of bugs and with a lot of features not in yet like server side collision this is not a good deal at all.
     
  3. cookimage

    cookimage

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    That is your choice, and I hope you come back when we have enough things in it that suits you. We do have allot of developers using it currently and am very successful with their development of their games.
     
  4. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    Sorry to say and i am not trying to be mean here but where are all these developers and how many successful title they have under their belt?

    I saw your forum and it is fill with legitimate questions that you evade or answer the way politicians do and this is not what i call reassuring in term of future support.

    I saw way to many crucial questions simply ignored on your forum and this make me feel uneasy about this project.

    I will wait for legitimate reviews and i wish you all the best.
     
  5. cookimage

    cookimage

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    No questions has been evaded, all has been answered and we have a roadmap showing exactly what we are working on and has been like that for a long time now. Every time we need to update the roadmap we do a new post in our forum so you can track what we are doing and also we are at most only 2 months behind on the roadmap. Reason we are behind is that the majority of people who is developing their games has asked for certain things to be added which we did not put in the roadmap at first and so added them in which takes longer. We would love to have all aspects in the engine right away but we can only do so much at a time and have to listen to what the majority of people want. But we are getting there.
     
  6. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    Hi Cook,

    Thank for not loosing your temper with me since i spent a good deal of money on assets that were not finish or got abandon along the way and i am still a bit frustrated about it.

    As i am reading on atavism is it correct to say that server side is done in java and that client side and plugins development are all done in ironpython?

    Let's say i have done a module in C sharp and i want to integrate this to the game will it be possible or i have to redo the module in python?

    I think you really need to explain to eventual customers the procedures to tap in their own game mechanics.

    I know that the amount of work you already did is tremendous and would like to see you guy's succeed but keep in mind that even the best product without clear and concise documentation is nothing usable at the other end.
     
  7. WJ

    WJ

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    I agree with the above post, I would buy this but theres no way on earth I'm re-coding all my C# modules in Python or Java for that matter, some of them are pretty large and were developed in a manner making them totally non reliant on any unity classes so they could be used on the backend to replicate features on the server side.

    The last time I used Java for any backend work was when I was working in Banking.

    Good luck with the product though, it looks cool.
     
  8. sooms

    sooms

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    Hi pixelquaternion.

    The server side is mostly in java and supports the use of python for scripting as well. The client side is all Unity, so there is no change there, it's the same as always (c# and Javascript).

    What this means is that any systems that require syncing/authorisation will need to be re-coded on the server in Java or Python. This does not mean the whole system, just the part to handle the syncing/authorisation.
     
  9. cookimage

    cookimage

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  10. Grateyfratez

    Grateyfratez

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    Isn't a beta supposed to be used to tighten the the already-implemented core features of software? If you're adding a whole bunch of things (especially authoritative player control) in beta, there's undoubtedly going to be another phase to test and improve these once they get released.

    I've been struggling with Atavism over the past month and I would have to STRONGLY recommend against it in its current form. The "documentation" is a couple of pdf files that vaguely describe how to set things up and kind of explain at a very, very high level how things work. But besides that the code has no documentation, no comments, and there's a forum post from over 6 months ago on the Atavism forum that said that documentation is coming soon.

    Link to that post: http://www.atavismonline.com/forum/atavism-support/37-atavism-documentation

    You can point to the road map all you want, but 7 months ago you promised documentation (something absolutely critical to development with foreign/hidden code) and to this day there is nothing for me to use to start making my game my own based on your existing systems.

    I understand completely what your intended goals are for Atavism, however there simply isn't any reason to believe you will reach those goals at this point. The only explanation I can think of for you guys not implementing authoritative player control from the get-go is that it is beyond your skillset and you're trying to figure out how to do it. It does not make sense to push such a critical mmo feature back so far that merchants are being placed before it.

    Also, this is clearly still PRE-ALPHA. Calling it beta is severely misleading. Read this article (yes, it's wikipedia, but accurate nonetheless):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle


    By beta, the software should be feature complete.

    I hope you guys can deliver on your goals for Atavism (I would/will change this review in a second), but at its current stage it is unusable and therefore isn't worth a dime.
     
  11. Teila

    Teila

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    I agree with the above poster. Atavism is unusable for us at the moment. Also, other than the road map, those of us that made very large pledges have yet to see the $3000 worth of assets we were promised. Every week one of us is told that it will be out with the next week or two and they are never released.

    As for the roadmap, when a roadmap is created and includes important things like server collision and authoritative server, and these important additions are put back for things that the "testers" want, then that is a problem. A roadmap is just that, a map. Most of us do not expect it to detour this way and that in order to please a minority of the testers. We expect the team to be professional and stick to the schedule. Delays are inevitable and understandable, but the excuses as to why there are delays are not.

    Besides, the bugs that come out with every release, and honestly, there have not been many releases, are game-breaking.

    Honestly, this entire thing has become about getting customers more than about finishing the project. The excuse is that more money is needed. I would gladly give more money if the project was even partially on time and included the important features promised to us. In fact, I am guessing more money was lost from additional team licenses and higher concurrent user licenses than from anything else. Who wants to upgrade when the project is so behind?

    I like the idea of Atavism, but a company needs to build trust with it's current customers first. That way we can all glow about the project and customers will flock.

    Oh, and I will change my review as well! Just getting those assets will be enough for me at this moment. If they are as good as I think they will be, I will happily give praise to Neojac and Atavism.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
  12. cookimage

    cookimage

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    I am sorry you feel that way, but if you look at the wiki there is documentation on allot of things. And as for finished features, we will never stop adding new things just like any MMO game out there even on full release they are still adding new things years after it has been released. That's just the nature of a MMO game and system for a MMO game. There is a full API documentation as well that explains the code for those using the source code to create their own plugins. Also in the Atavism Unity editor each item is each plugin is explained on the Info tab which is the little book tab third from the left. You might have missed these things. Here is links to those things.

    API Link

    Atavism Wiki
     
  13. palaxe

    palaxe

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    Well I also use Atavism, Atvoxel as well. We have a rich world that we have made. I get 89-110 fps. We have it loaded up with Castles, trees, houses, everything. Atavism has been Fantastic. Its very easy to use and to make armor, items and spells. My data base is filling up. Atavism has giving great support! They even put in UMA for us that want to use it. I would give Atavism 9/10 remember though its still in the works of being finished. But after using different engines like Esenthel engine for example.. Atavism with Unity is the BomB!!! Complain all you want but the truth is you won't find a better system if your a small Indy team and want to make something huge!

    Just my two cents worth.
     
    radar089 likes this.
  14. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    I also agree with the posters above and that why i cancel my purchase since i found a solution that look promising all in C# and completely open source with better pricing and where the developers are answering questions clearly and professionally.

    I might change my mind later on but you guy's will have to work very hard since you have big competition coming in with better package in a solid language and not locked in a dll.

    I still hope you can make it but the more i read about it the more suspicious i become.
     
  15. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    Thank for explaining but since everything is lock under dll how can i make my client side script communicate with the server side?
     
  16. cookimage

    cookimage

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    Here is a pricing layout what you would have paid if you bought them from Unity Asset store alone but comes all included with Atavism.

    Inventory System - Between $15 to $20 on asset store currently
    Chat System - $5
    MMO Camera Movement system - $20
    RPG Skill System - $25
    Networking System - $65

    Already we are over a $100 and those are only a very few of the systems that's in Atavism Right now so I fail to see how we are after the money only because if that was the fact we would have changed allot more that $70 to get you started. As for saying we are only after getting customers and not to finish the project, if that was true we would not have been doing updates and adding things at all and would not have been following the road map. We are just 2 months behind on the road map and that is definitely not bad at all in software development.
     
    RealSoftGames likes this.
  17. JamesPro

    JamesPro

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    I have no idea how large your world is but you DO realize once Server side Collision/Physics is integrated most everything will have to change... The Size of worlds that a single Server can host will go down a huge amount. A Physics Simulation on the Server with hundreds or thousands of physics objects can only be SO large before it just becomes way to resource intensive... And you make it sound like your perfectly happy using Atavism as a Kit instead of as a Framework... As a Kit in a small MMO yes Atavism is a great tool even in it's current state... But as a Framework it still has a HUGE amount of work it needs done!
     
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  18. Teila

    Teila

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    With all due respect, those costs only matter if you don't have programmers who can also create those things. For those who can't code, your list of features are fantastic. But some of purchased Atavism for the things we cannot create, such as the authoritative server and the server collision among other things. Those things have not materialized yet and you continue to label this as Beta, even Beta 2 according to the label on the most recent update. Sorry, but those 5 things do not make this beta.

    We paid a lot more than $100 and all we have is those 5 things and a sometimes working server network connection. Oh, and a plugin system that is very difficult to use. Even then, they work sometimes with glitches here and there that are frustrating. Questions are often ignored on the forums and we essentially gave up a while ago on getting any support.

    If you truly were more concerned with putting out a quality product, you would wait to advertise all over Steam and MMORPG. You would wait until your product is past update 1.7 and until it actually could produce a true MMO with important features added rather than fluff. I have absolutely no doubt that you need the sales to complete development and improvements on the project. I also realize that we were naive and too trusting and that is why we spent over $300 for an unfinished product. My only concern at this point is that others have the information they need to make an informed decision.
     
  19. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    Teila have a very solid point here and i also warn you that your own forum is fill with unanswered questions.

    If you don't listen to customers you will quickly learn the hard way how fast a product can go down the drain.

    You still have time to correct the negative points about how you deal with customers but if i were you i would start right now until serious competition grab the market right in front of you.

    We are not bashing you guy's we are helping you to succeed believe me i know what i am talking about here.
     
  20. cookimage

    cookimage

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    The problem when it comes to Atavism is when you try and add your own plugins and system in that the coders do not understand how to do it. We cant be held responsible for what you code yourself. If you change a system with your own code and it does not work anymore how is it our fault if it worked before fine with our code but does not work with your code. I am pretty sure as well i have answered all your questions Teila on Atavism forum as far as I can recall. Please make a post to any questions I haven't responded to on our forums.
     
  21. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    Unfortunately you seem to continue answering like a politician and that doesn't help the atavism cause.
     
  22. cookimage

    cookimage

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    LOL so asking what the questions is that have not been answered so I can make sure they get answered is answering like a politician . That is actually funny.
     
  23. JamesPro

    JamesPro

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    Answering like a Politician, side stepping the issues, Blaming others instead of looking at everything and admitting maybe there's something to our complaints... I agree Pixel, certainly not helping Atavism AT ALL... lol But according to him it's only a very small minority of us who have any issues at all with Atavism and he would rather have us lie and tell people that Atavism is so great or keep our mouths closed (Got skype discussions from the other night saved showing where he told me that)... Just shows what kind of operation is actually being run here...

    I've been following them for a LONG time. Started following them way back in their Multiverse days creating Islands of War. I was really looking forward to working with them on Atavism as well until all this bull crap started happening...
     
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  24. Teila

    Teila

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    Actually, it is your responsibility to create the documentation to help everyone who buys your kit to understand how it works. The plug-in system has serious issues that go beyond documentation. The editor required to make it work as easily as the rest of the kit isn't finished...if even planned.

    By the way, we did not add any extra code. When the few updates arrived, I think three of four of them since March, we started all over from scratch. Unlike some, we were testing with prototype games, not attempting to make an unfinished product with an unfinished MMOKit/Engine. So blaming the coders really doesn't apply in our situation.

    And simple things, like mob spawning worked off and on. Documentation was spotty. Things showed up in the database that were not used in the code. Just confusing and not intuitive. I am happy some people were able to get it to work but it didn't work for us....and we had NO custom code.

    You answered my questions, usually with...it will be released next week. :) But my team members were ignored, even before the extra licenses were required...which we did not buy because the kit was not useable for us.

    Oh, Jacques, I do want Atavism to succeed..but as the Engine we purchased, not as simply an MMOkit. I also want it to work for all those kids (and adults) who purchased it with their hard earned money with big dreams. I really wish you had taken a different route, stayed with the plan, and did what you originally said you would do rather than go off course. I hope you can correct things before it is too late. Even if we don't use Atavism, I would like to see it come together.
     
    BackwoodsGaming likes this.
  25. cookimage

    cookimage

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    I am sorry if you think we have gone off course, Once again we have been open with our road map and it is there in clear print on our forums from the start. i am lost still as to how we have gone off course as I look at it and see we have been following it pretty clearly. If you can point to where we have gone wrong then we can look at rectifying it. Unfortunately we cant please every one, although we wish we could.
     
  26. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    Hi James,

    Yes i was also full of hope regarding atavism but now reality is kicking in and not the way i expected! The positive point is that i didn't lost my hard earn money on this asset.

    I also think the atavism team should replace their spokesperson since sooms is way more professional at replying to customers questions.
     
  27. JamesPro

    JamesPro

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    Cook is actually more then just their spokesperson. He is actually the Company Owner. He's a really nice guy he and I just completely disagree on how they are handling advertising for Atavism. Personally I would think being honest and up front about the current State of Atavism but then laying out their plans for it would earn them many more license purchases and much more respect then advertise it like it's already capable of doing all this stuff when it's very clearly not. The Atavism Server even chokes after you get 100 people on the Server so hardly capable of being used in MMOs in it's current state until they add in the ability to distribute the server load across multiple Servers.
     
    BackwoodsGaming likes this.
  28. cookimage

    cookimage

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    You are correct James we do disagree on the state of Atavism, as it depends on how you are making your game. Our tools have bugs and do still have a far way to go but everything we are stating has been tested by our test group of about 10 developers who is working on their own games, before we release it to others. As far as I can recall from your last test you guys ran you only had 10 people in and around 70 mobs and your own word was the server was running pretty good. So I am lost where you get the max number of players is 100 and the server crashes. If you designed your world wrong which will have to do with unity rendering and not Atavism then the client would crash or have a low frame rate as it has to do with rendering and draw calls, not Atavism server itself. I am though wondering if your comments has anything to do with the fact that you are trying to make your own MMO engine which you have stated you will be selling on Unity asset store. I wish you good luck with that.
     
  29. BackwoodsGaming

    BackwoodsGaming

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    I agree with James here.. I think in its' finished form, Atavism will be a great system. I just think it has a long way to go and I think a lot of the folks that have spoken out are just concerned that it is being misrepresented which may end up killing it before it is done taking our investment along with it. I'm really hoping that isn't the case, but in creating buzz here, on mmorpg.com, steam, etc that indicate it is more feature-rich than it actually is in its current state. That hurts more than it helps. People buy into it and then realize after-the-fact that things are missing.
     
  30. Teila

    Teila

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    You should have put in the MMO Framework pieces first, the authoritative server and the server collision, instead of listening to the people who wanted shiny stuff. Foundations should come first. I am afraid James is right and things will be a mess for so many. You should spend more time working on a robust plugin system that will be easy to use rather than sell a Veteran's license that really will be for those who want to sell plugins rather those who want to make them. We need an editor for the plugin system right now more than we need a merchant system.

    You can turn this around by concentrating on those two things (actually 3), get them out and then go back to the shiny stuff.

    And you can start releasing some of those assets you promised to those of us who pledged big money. Nothing has been released and the promises are getting stale. If we get those, I will consider my debt paid and will go away. :) I will chalk our loss of Atavism for our project as a lesson learned and go on to something else. Fortunately, there are some alternatives in the works that will work better for us.

    I will cheer when my friends get to use a finished and working Atavism.
     
  31. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    Are you serious 100 people and it is not working? I am not saying the owner is not a nice person i am just saying that he doesn't know how to properly answer heavy technical questions that developers need to know before jumping in.

    I see a lot of promises that will be hard to fulfill and specially the server side collision since the guy's at photon and smart fox seem like very experience developers and they were not able to come with a decent solution for this.

    The very successful developers here have all one thing in common and by this i mean exceptional support and documentation.
     
  32. JamesPro

    JamesPro

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    If it REALLY had anything to do with my own MMO Framework then I think I would have mentioned it in all of my posts... I haven't mentioned it once. YOU are the one who brought that up NOT me. My MMO Framework I started developing in a single weekend while I was waiting on one of many missed deadlines for Atavism. I got tired of all of the sitting around and waiting I was doing and wanted to see how quickly I could get something working my self. In that single Weekend I actually got my Demo World further along then anything I could do at the time with Atavism.

    And just for the record my stats I got about it choking after 100 players those are stats I received from another MMO Developer working with Atavism who has worked on AAA MMO Titles so knows what he's talking about. Yes in our tests with 15 players and 30 or 40 mobs yes the Server ran very smoothly.
     
  33. Teila

    Teila

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    Unfortunately, Cookimage, missed deadlines and lack of important features will drive many others to make their own kit. We are not going that route, so can't blame everyone who criticizes your product as having an ulterior motive. I think that is very sad and very unprofessional. Passing the buck is not a good business practice.

    :(
     
  34. cookimage

    cookimage

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    Dam that's is great news James that you can put a MMO engine together over a weekend, think many AAA game development companies who spend millions on developing their engines will be knocking at your door soon. But anyway, back to the point. As you will see the collusion and other server side stuff you guys are complaining about will be coming soon as its the next thing on the road map as we have basically done all the shiny things now as you guys have stated.
     
  35. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    I still think this product is excellent for non coders who just want to do generic small scale mmo and maybe they should focus only on this instead of claiming what it is not.
     
    Teila likes this.
  36. JamesPro

    JamesPro

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    Mar 5, 2012
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    well cook, Like I said and stand by your really a great guy... I really wish you and your company the best of luck and hope to see you succeed with Atavism. Have a great day!
     
  37. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

    Joined:
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    My advice to developers :

    -1 Video showing server under heavy load ex; 1000 users or more

    -2 Video showing how to integrate your own C# script into the plugin system(something simple)

    -3 Professional documentation since asking 1500$ required professional documentation.

    -4 Focus on the most important aspect specially server side collision.

    -5 Stop blaming others for what you didn't provide them with.(refer to advice n# 3)

    -6 Don't try to rush out an alpha and claim it as a beta.

    -7 Your videos are not looking very professional and may shy away a lot of potential customers.

    -8 Lower the price for unlimited users and sale must have plugins to regain the income.

    -9 Bell and whistle should be last or paid plugins.

    -10 Read a good book on learning from positive criticisms.
     
  38. cookimage

    cookimage

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    Thanks for your advice pixelquaternion , will take it into consideration.
     
  39. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    Thank Cook and i forgot the most important advice in there: Take a breath of fresh air and have good night of sleep since without health there is no point making a successful asset.

    I had a support forum also and i never answer posts when i was tired since we sometime get on the edge, on the other side when i wake up in the morning i was fresh and able to answer anything.

    You will succeed if you follow common sense since hard work and dedication always get reward at some point but beware of the common pitfall i saw to many good developers falling in.

    All the best to your team
     
  40. Tom_Timothy

    Tom_Timothy

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
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    So my team personally has had 90+ players on the server with no problems on a server.load. I find that for the cost of atavism you are getting every dollars worth they also have been following throw with the road map.

    I do not feel you will pick up atavism and have the next big mmorpg in the next few months. also I do feel that over the next year functions such as Server Side Collision Detection, paging terrain, and server load spread are a must for some one to be able to build a alpha that will be tested by the public in large numbers thousand plus. I also feel that the average small Dev team is going to take way over a year building the working on code and assets for a mmorpg. So I don't think atavism progress should slow you down unless your trying to port over a final project.

    We feel that Atavism will get throw beta to a finale version in around the next 12 months. That would be are guess from the time we have been working with atavism Alpha 1.5 to beta 2 on version.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
  41. Teila

    Teila

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    Tom, the problem is that the product is being advertised all over as able to create a game. Nothing is said that it might be a year before it is finished and stable.

    I agree with you though. A small team needs time to make a game and a year is not that much time. I also think a year time frame or longer is not outrageous for development of an MMO engine/networking framework. Some honest communication with users and perspective users would have gone a long way to avoid this issue.
     
  42. JamesPro

    JamesPro

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Posts:
    509
    So since I was banned from the Atavism Forum for Answering someone's question there... I just wanted to address something here for those using Atavism. The Company I work for still holds our Atavism and AtVoxel Licenses... I will continue to develop both my UniStorm Plugin and I will add Support for Atavism to my UniStream Terrain Streaming Plugin and I will continue to make those available to any developer who wishes to get them. Any sales for those plugins will be made directly with me through Paypal or perhaps through the Unity Asset Store but will in no way be linked to NeoJac Entertainment or supported by them.

    If you would like to get in touch with me concerning these plugins or perhaps some custom work you would like done please send me a message here and we can work something out! Thanks!
     
  43. cookimage

    cookimage

    Joined:
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    Thank you James, that is much appreciated and I am sure other developers will enjoy using those plugins.
     
  44. Grateyfratez

    Grateyfratez

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    Posts:
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    I have indeed seen that API link and the wiki. I don't need "allot" of things documented, I need everything documented. Before an update is released there should be clear documentation on what was changed/added. ALWAYS.

    I cannot work with something that only has certain things documented. On top of that how dare you say:

    "The problem when it comes to Atavism is when you try and add your own plugins and system in that the coders do not understand how to do it. We cant be held responsible for what you code yourself. If you change a system with your own code and it does not work anymore how is it our fault if it worked before fine with our code but does not work with your code"

    Are you KIDDING?!?! Of course we don't understand how to do it because there is not enough documentation, and of course you understand how to because you created it. Guess what, I don't need documentation to understand my own code either but that doesn't mean I can throw it at someone at expect them to understand what's going on. So what, we just don't code anything because we lack the documentation to understand it fully? We have to explore and tinker and alter things so they work for us, but we cannot account for what our changes do under the hood. You are absolutely held responsible for the lack of documentation, and therefore a lack of understanding of Atavism's systems.

    And for the love of god STOP SAYING YOU ARE FOLLOWING THE ROAD MAP. Your road map is so deeply flawed that it does not matter whether or not you follow it, which you clearly aren't anyways, as you previously said:
    "people who is developing their games has asked for certain things to be added which we did not put in the roadmap at first and so added them in which takes longer, "

    and then you go on to say:
    " i am lost still as to how we have gone off course as I look at it and see we have been following it pretty clearly."

    How do you reconcile those two statements? You're following the road map but you change it at will? What, so you guys can wander aimlessly with development as long as you record the wandering? If you have a road map and someone gives you money in response to that road map, you need to throw new features at the END of the current road map, since others have already invested in the road map as it was.

    It's just so unprofessional all around. Professional software is completely documented BEFORE release, not released as an afterthought. Professional software developers create the foundation before the extras. Professional software developers don't have a malleable road map that robs early investors of the features they invested in.

    Since I have no need for some evasive reply, just answer these questions for me:
    1) Do you think that it is okay to release and sell a product with incomplete documentation?
    2) Do you think it's fair to older investors to change the road map in favor of newer investors (thus pushing back the features that the original investors were paying for in the first place)?
    3) Since you are still adding new core features, how can you justify entering beta?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
  45. cookimage

    cookimage

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    1) Documentation will never be complete as we will never stop developing Atavism as it has to keep up with Unity versions and new hardware that comes out.
    2) All changes that has been made on the roadmap has been from customers who was older investors, now that we have done all the basic stuff that we thought was needed for developers to start building their worlds we will no longer be adding anything new to the roadmap until what we have stated there is done.
    3) Once again core features will continue to be added or changed even on full release as Unity changes nearly every year and we have to change with it.
     
  46. Grateyfratez

    Grateyfratez

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
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    That is a completely evasive answer, but let's keep this format.

    1) Whether or not you continue development indefinitely is irrelevant. If you release something, you release documentation for that something. So for the sake of this conversation, complete documentation is when you provide documentation for utilizing everything you have released. With this definition, let's revisit this question: Do you think that it is okay to release and sell a product with incomplete documentation?
    2) You continue to try and justify the changes, but that's again irrelevant. You had a road map, people paid money for the features laid out on that road map, then you changed the road map, thus pushing back features that your original investors paid for. Do you think that this is okay?
    3) You seem to have a serious lack of understanding regarding what a core feature is. Merchants are not a core system. Authoritative server control is absolutely a core system. Your original road map HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED. Without this completion, how can you call this a beta? Can Atavism Online define what it means to be in a beta for all of us who are confused?

    Stop trying to dance around the questions.

    EDIT:

    And just to reiterate on your "we've followed the road map clearly" argument: It's now 4 days past your deadline for merchants and there's no updates to the engine and no updates on this forum.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
  47. Teila

    Teila

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    Jan 13, 2013
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    Jacques, this is absolutely not true. Several of us "old" users were counting on that road map. It is appalling that we had to watch you put in trade and other things while we waited for foundation features such as server collision and authoritative server.. We wanted to put in our own trade system rather than use yours but we were stuck. Trade was on the map as "later" not earlier. Why in the world did you change the map? Because someone asked? Is that the way to do business?

    Oddly, the things you could have given us such as all those assets you promised would not have compromised the roadmap at all and yet we still haven't seen them.

    Sadly many of your users didn't even know that you were leaving out crucial features to put in trade. I bet if you had given them a choice they would have opted for the former.
     
  48. pixelquaternion

    pixelquaternion

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    Jun 28, 2014
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    Our team will wait another year to see if atavism will be able to succeed but we will still follow this thread and when we feel the product and documentation is mature enough and if no other competitive products surpass it then we will gladly bought the license but there is a lot of water to flow before this i think.
     
  49. VicToMeyeZR

    VicToMeyeZR

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Posts:
    427
    I posted an error on the atavism forum. Doesn't look like anyone has been active there the last few weeks. can you check it please?
     
  50. cookimage

    cookimage

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    Sep 10, 2012
    Posts:
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    We are on the forum every day, and try to answer them within 24 hours.
     
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