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Are you "serious"?

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by RJ-MacReady, Nov 12, 2014.

  1. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    Every once in a while, someone is so talented they don't have to work. Like, once in a generation... and some people strike oil on their first try, sure. Everybody else has to work. I think for me, putting in that thought energy and focus is "serious" as opposed to just dreaming all day, every day, sitting around in comfy, cozy coffee shops with your buddies, having a good time.
     
  2. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    I am one of them who has always worked on game projects for fun. To me it was always because game development was like the ultimate game. Challenges. Rewards (not financially but satisfaction of figuring out something whether a new feature or resolving an issue and so forth). Instant feedback. Make change. Run and test. It is kind of like the Ultimate Construction Set. And think of all of the people who practically live in games like WOW.
     
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  3. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    Haha. Stephen King loved writing. Adam Young (Owl City) loves making music. Maddox (internet satirist) just likes to hate things.

    They just were social, masters of self promotion and moderately talented (I didnt mention anyone who is perfect or has legendary, timeless talent on purpose) and they all became the biggest names in what they do.

    None of them ever compromised their art forms one iota.
     
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  4. Gigiwoo

    Gigiwoo

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    ^ Lots O Win. And inspired a story.

    Earlier this year, a bright young developer asked for my advice. And, instead, I offered him a bargain. "I will share everything I know about game development, a little bit at a time. In exchange, all you have to do is commit yourself, heart and soul, every day, to building products! Lots of products and no excuses." And with big, bright eyes, he quickly said, "Yes!"

    Since then, he's worked his full-time dev gig and spend 30+ hours every week at night, developing products. In keeping his bargain, he now has five products on Google Play. In keeping my part of the bargain, I taught him everything I've learned about the theory, practice, and business of building games (see pic below).

    photo.JPG

    This past weekend, one of his little hobby projects went to number 23 on Google's trending, netting him 8,000 downloads in a single day. He has made almost no money, and yet, in ten short months, he has developed a portfolio that could land him a job in almost any studio, if that is what he wants. Though I suspect, that he now has a taste for releasing products. It's highly likely he'll release 5, 10, or 15 more, until eventually, the studio's will be looking for him.

    If I asked this young developer 'Where do you want to be in 10 months', he wouldn't answer by arguing about the name of this forum or whether or not he's serious. He'd answer by pulling up his profile on the App store.

    Gigi
     
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  5. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    Ouch... reluctant like
     
  6. SteveJ

    SteveJ

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  7. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    Now I'm going to make it a point to study the crap out of everything you have on that board right there
     
  8. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    A hobby is something one does for pleasure. Making money can certainly be a nice perk, but it is rarely one of the primary focuses. I've invested almost twenty years of my life into studying computers, both hardware and software, solely because I enjoyed doing it.

    Only recently have I begun to investigate the possibility of going professional. It helps that I have a friend who is almost done with his game design degree and is interested in starting an indie team.
     
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  9. Ra1den

    Ra1den

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    Wow what a thread.... :D

    After reading everything you guys have written (everything!) I just want to say that all you guys have some good points and I would say that all of you are right and that basically all you guys are describing the same thing....

    That even in the indie scene there is no ONE definite path to success whether you're a hobbyist who's suddenly thought of going serious or a some IT guru looking for a quick payday, there is no SINGLE RIGHT way to the top, so all we do is do whatever if we feel is the right way and heck isn't that what people have always done? Do what they feel is right?

    In my case I have always been passionate about games, i even remember as a kid i used to try making my own role playing games and even board games! and even though not everyone will have the same passion about games as me (many will never even understand it) all i have ever really wanted to do is create experiences! experiences that have never been done before, experiences that i constantly dream about and in vision in my mind,all day/everyday...

    And well, I want to share these experiences with everyone ^^
     
  10. tigerija

    tigerija

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    That's the thing. Making video games is not same as playing them. Playing video games is supposed to be fun.
    Making video games is not fun. A lot less than 50% of it is fun. It is after all, work.

    Working on a video game can be fun. If its free collaborative project. But in this case that kind of method of work should be established within the team. Because I know some people get into projects "for fun". Some are trying their best to make their game possible and break into real business, when others are dragging them down.

    I think people should realize what is - game development.

    Ofc, I dont have anything against having fun while developing video games. Or developing games for fun, as a hobby. That is perfectly fine. I dont want to come too negative.
    That's just not real game development (working on a product).
     
  11. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    A better way to say this is probably that to you making video games is not fun. You see it as as mainly work that is not fun. I do not see it that way. There are bits that I certainly enjoy much less than others but not because it is work. I actually enjoy work. Especially hard work. I get a deep satisfaction from pouring myself into something, tackling a great task and getting it done. Whether it is management or "in the trenches" work makes no difference. Working on the computer. Working on the lawn. Whatever. I find enjoyment in it. It is just a state of mind. And I can make it fun (or at least more enjoyable) if need be.


    Ha ha! I see what you are saying. There will always be people who are putting in less effort than others. I've seen that my entire life. In every job you will find such people. They tend to do the least amount possible. Putting forth the bare minimum effort needed. That's just the way most people are. I have carried many projects to completion in my life picking up the slack for others. It can be frustrating for sure but eventually I learned to look at it like they are probably doing the best they can. Whether a lack of interest or a lack of skill was the issue didn't really matter. For them, it was their best.


    I don't see it this way but I can see what you are getting at. I agree way too many people get into making games because they think it is so easy. We see that all the time on the forums here. People seem to come in thinking they can knock out the next Skyrim in a matter of weeks. I think the big change in how people view game development occurred in just the recent years mainly due to more and more people knocking out simple (mobile) games in things like GameMaker and Unity. So many people were able to make games without having any previous experience in game development or even programming or graphics. And some of them made some good money from doing so. Because of these two facts suddenly "everyone and their brother, sister, cousin, uncle, niece, nephew" and so forth wanted to make games. And we still see them pouring into this forum every single week. The market seems to be flooded with game developers these days.

    However, it does not matter if a person enjoys the work or not. That does not change it being real development or not. I greatly enjoy working out too. Because I enjoy it does not mean I am not really working out. Quite the contrary, I push incredibly hard. If you enjoy something you will do better, be better at it. That is the only difference the enjoyment makes. If you get little enjoyment from game development I'd suggest looking for something else to do for a living or find ways to make it enjoyable!
     
  12. redmotion_games

    redmotion_games

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    I have to disagree, tigerija, with "That's just not real game development (working on a product)." All game development is "real".

    Things are only serious if you're spending other peoples money. That by itself probably reduces the fun factor by 50%. eg: Having to answer to someone else about what you are doing.

    You are stuck having to make it work, even if you begin to realise at some point during the process that this thing you are making actually sucks, that the whole thing is, on some level, flawed. But you can't quit at that point - you're committed.

    I think that's what's called "being a professional". Being a game designer/developer is not the same as being a professional.

    Making games off your own back (ie with no one to answer to) is more fun than playing them. The limits become your time and your resources. But you have an opportunity that some "professionals" don't - total control & real self-expression.
     
  13. tigerija

    tigerija

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    I agree with all replies. And I agree that work can be fun. I just wanted to stress out that fun you get when playing video games is not same fun that you get from work, by working on video games.
    Because I am under impression that many people get into game development thinking that.

    But yea. For me it is fun to work on video games in a way that its sometimes fun to model, animate, and do other similar things. Thus I do not get demotivated if game concept itself becomes boring. Because creating that idea a reality, idea you came up with at the start, is not what is driving me.

    Many people are motivated by that single thing.
    I have great idea - I gonna make that idea reality - oh, idea is not so fun anymore after few months of working on this same project - I got another better idea.
    This is basically I noticed a lot with indie teams.

    But yea. I am serious in a way that for me it is important to finish a project and that is my motivation.

    But I do like how some people in this thread that they are doing stuff purely for fun. A hobby. I can relate.

    Its like a sport. You can do it for hobby. To have some fun and good time. But dont really plan to become a professional.
    If you do want to become one. Then you must train hard (become serious) and then it might not be fun all the time.

    Anyway, not saying I am right. Just sharing my opinion and point of view :) .
     
  14. Teila

    Teila

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    Hmmm...so, are any creative endeavors serious or professional then?

    Is a writer who spends years typing away at his novel a serious writer? If his intentions are to finish, and then attempt to publish, is that not a serious writer? Even if he is doing it as a hobby and later decides to publish, his that serious? What about a painter?

    For that matter, why is a hobby not "serious"? I know people who have some pretty serious hobbies. They invest large amounts of money in them, they spend lots of time doing them, and they often compete with others in the same hobby.

    Professional is usually defined as someone who makes money off their work, so a writer who publishes becomes a professional. That doesn't mean they are not serious before they publish, just saying. :)

    Oh, and a real, serious, professional job can be fun. Those are the lucky people.
     
  15. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    "I have carried many projects to completion in my life picking up the slack for others. It can be frustrating for sure but eventually I learned to look at it like they are probably doing the best they can. Whether a lack of interest or a lack of skill was the issue didn't really matter. For them, it was their best."

    I never know how to deal with this. Sometimes, it seems like by picking up the slack, I'm enabling them. At the same time, I can't have something my name is on be a blatant failure. A real catch 22.
     
  16. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    You're serious the day you decide that completing your work is not optional.
     
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  17. Teila

    Teila

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    Yeah, and what a painful moment that is. It means you can't quit, no matter what and those days when it is overwhelming are just days to get through. lol I have been there for a long time.

    We have our current game because we picked it up after a team failed. So I get it, Elmo...I can call you Elmo, can't I? :) The Mister seems so formal.
     
  18. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    I guess you can be serious without being professional, because a professional is someone who abides by deadlines.
     
  19. tigerija

    tigerija

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    "For that matter, why is a hobby not "serious"? I know people who have some pretty serious hobbies. They invest large amounts of money in them, they spend lots of time doing them, and they often compete with others in the same hobby. "

    That is not a hobby then. For me at least. For me what hobby is, it is something that is usually fun and relaxing for me. It does not ask many or any obligations from me. And I can decide to ignore obligations without any harm.

    If you are serious, you do not want to ignore things and you have to start taking obligations and do things that will not always be fun or relaxing.

    :)
     
  20. Teila

    Teila

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    There are a lot of hobbies that are not fun and relaxing. Some people actually enjoy the thrill of competition and the excitement of risks. They don't climb mountains because they are relaxing or jump out of airplanes.

    A hobby is simply an interest one pursues for pleasure and could be a lot of things, from pushing one's self physically to simply reading books.
     
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  21. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I don't think there's *any* hobbies which aren't fun though.
    Some people find challenges and tough activities a whole lot of fun and pleasure!
     
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  22. Teila

    Teila

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    Ha! There are a lot of hobbies that I don't think are fun! :) But yeah, you are right. I just copied and pasted without paying enough attention.
     
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  23. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    You don't need to pay attention! You're the boss.
     
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  24. Teila

    Teila

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    Ha! I spent the entire day yesterday walking around Disney World. I need at least a day to recover from that. :)
     
  25. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Did you go on any rides?
     
  26. Teila

    Teila

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    Yep, of course. :) However, I have been on all the rides so many times that they are no longer all that special. We had a nice time all together, but I could think of better ways to spend a day.
     
  27. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    You mean like being at a beach house when its sunny with the waves and surf soothing you as you put together an mmo in Unity? meanwhile a private chef is cooking some of the most amazing food you can smell?
     
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  28. Teila

    Teila

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    Now that sounds good...:)

    My son is making fried chicken and rice in the kitchen, does that count? Beach is only an hour away...but not sunny at the moment.
     
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  29. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    It's family, it counts ;)
     
  30. Whippets

    Whippets

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    "are you serious?"
    yes.
     
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