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are the new 320m cards better then the 9400m cards

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by summerl0v3r, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. summerl0v3r

    summerl0v3r

    Joined:
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    hey guys

    i am considering buying a mac pro for my corporate presentations of apps etc and just wondering if the new 320m cards are better then the 9400m cards on the previous gen laptops

    i know that the 320m has more cores but it does not have dedicatred memory and is shared

    i would rather get the last gen macs then the new ones if there is not a big performance gain from the new cards

    i have a mac mini with a 9400m and it runs unity just fine

    can even crank maya
     
  2. emergence

    emergence

    Joined:
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    I'd go with a PC instead.

    Yea, I hate MAC's. Overpriced fluff if you ask me.
     
  3. ippdev

    ippdev

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    Why does this uninformed miasma always infect a thread. My BSD UNIX Mac can kick the snot out of your PC and will last five times longer. Its interface is not an ugly mess to have to scoot around and over. The developer tools that come with the Mac are no slouch either.

    And now..A windoze rant. Frak Bill and Melinda for wanting to license and vaccinate every child to be born on earth.. And GMO advocacy, and NSAkey.dll and seven ghost files for every file you write...and..etc..etc..etc


    Mind you Jobs is backing Rahm for Chicago Mayor. I may have a size ten cowboy boot for his ass on this one!

    Back to your regularly scheduled program.

    Yer Pal
    BTH
     
  4. Vert

    Vert

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    And somehow this makes you better than the people that hate on Mac? Let's be grown ups here.

    The truth about operating systems is that they are a personal preference. There is no one operating system that is better than another. You pick your OS based on how it fits your needs. If Mac does it for you, then by all means get a Mac. If you like Windows, use windows. And if you like Linux use Linux. After adolescences I have never found any form of fan-boyism to be a quality worth keeping in my personality. Let's recognize there are strengths and weaknesses in both products shall we?

    And btw, yes the 320m cards are better than the 9600m cards. After the 9XXX series Nvidia went to the GT/GTS/GTX XXX series, starting at 200. So the first card was a GTS 230 if I remember correctly. Something like that anyway.
     
  5. Feyhu

    Feyhu

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    Macs are more business oriented (making games included), Pcs are more for playing the games.
     
  6. IcyPeak

    IcyPeak

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    PC's are the same thing as a Mac but with a different OS, cheaper, and better specs available, plus self-building or custom specs as an option. That's really all there is to it... one isn't more "business oriented" or "gaming oriented". You can even install Windows on a Mac, or if you really felt like it, vice-versa (but for licensing).

    Macs are basically a boutique brand for a PC... much more expensive for the same spec, or worse spec, as a PC.

    As far as the opinion part of this argument goes, personally, I prefer the Windows 7 OS vastly over OSX. It's far more intuitive, and can run everything instead of a small subset of apps/games.

    Additionally, it allows for easy overclocking. I'm running an i7 2600K at 4800mhz (fully error-checked/stability tested), a GTX 580 video card, 8GB DDR3 (which I could upgrade to 16GB for around $70 when I want to for the extra pair of 4GB modules), and a 256GB SSD with TRIM capability, as well as a few large mechanical drives including a 1TB 2.5" external, a couple of 2TB internals, etc. The SSD ran me $400 a year and a half ago. RAM cost me $68 shipped recently. The video card cost me $500 because it had just come out. The CPU+motherboard cost me $500 with a free game bundled into it (Civilization 5).

    Finally, I use a Dell 3007WFP-HC 30" 2560x1600 panel with the same exact panel as was in the 30" Apple Cinema display of the time, purchased for $650 with a 5-year warranty from Dell.

    Try speccing a mac desktop with, even stock...

    i7 2600K 3.4ghz
    16GB DDR3
    GTX 580
    256GB SSD
    2TB Internal HDD
    30" 2560x1600 display

    For me, it would cost ~$2k total. For a Mac Pro, I can only imagine... $5k plus, easily. EDIT: I specced out a Mac Pro with equivalent speed/overall power and came up with a figure of over $8,200 including a 27" 2560x1440 display (they didn't offer the 30" which is costlier/superior). Jaw-dropping...
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  7. Jessy

    Jessy

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    False. That's like saying Xbox 360 and PS3 are the same.

    Xbox 360 has my favorite controller of all time, while the PS3 controller is the same terrible tacked-on-analog-sticks-to-lame-start-anyway that they've been using for nearly a decade and a half. I equate my giant multitouch trackpad with the former.

    XBLA has a bunch of exclusive games that I like, while there isn't a single exclusive retail 360 game that I care about. However, when there is a cross-plaform release, and neither one is superior by other measures, I get the 360 one, because we like the controller better at my place. PS3, on the other hand, has the God of War and Team Ico games, and Valkyria Chronicles. On the Mac, we have Logic Studio, with MainStage. On Windows, you can buy Ghost Master, one of the greatest games of all time, on Steam. Ghost Master won't run on OS X anymore because it was an OS 9 game. (I don't know of any Windows-only software I care about that aren't games. ;-) )

    In theory, these things could be the same thing. They're not, or else they wouldn't be considered different things, instead of different brands of the same thing. There's a bit of gray area here, and I don't know of any way to discretely classify it, but humans definitely have a method of doing so. For example, there's nothing worth mentioning that differentiates this from any other superstrat. However, just add a couple strings, and it's a different story.
     
  8. ippdev

    ippdev

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    Blah blah tools..blah blah OS, blah blah 3D app. This has all been reiterated a million times before and is not any bright new point of logic. Frankly it seems the PC clowns are always starting this crap and the Mac guys for the most part pipe up politely and try to set a set of prejudices straight. I don't stick my nose into threads where the PC owner has had major virus attacks and blue screens and tell them GET A MAC. I don't see the other Mac users doing so either.. And frankly it is insulting to the Mac users to have to deal with this miasmatic BS when we know what is under the hood and what dev tools come with the platform. The original Get PC..goooood..Mac..bad ... fluffy.. It frankly had no place in a thread asking for Mac advice and I don't care about play like adults. I have children 29 years old. Please.

    BTH
     
  9. summerl0v3r

    summerl0v3r

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    lol and all i did was ask for advice on whether the 320m card is better then the 9400m card
    to justify spending more money on a newer machine for unity MAC game development
     
  10. summerl0v3r

    summerl0v3r

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    i have a pc and a mac and love both as they suit their INTENDED purpose
    get over it guys

    but please any techies if they could chip in and review the cards
    i have googled and there are far too mnay reviews

    i rather take the advice of a fellow unity user
     
  11. ScienceFiction

    ScienceFiction

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    Looks like you sparked a dynamite cache! I will try to refrain from jumping into the fracas, and simply help you summerl0v3r (BTW Triomferus is the only one who knows what he is talking about ab0ve).

    The 320m will get you about 30% better FPS with most stuff, don't expect more. Its nearly double the speed of the 9400 when it comes to shaders but with not geometry or textures, The real plus is that its energy consumption is lower.

    Now if you aren't making something at least as advanced as Quake4, I would go with the older macbook because at the very least it will force you to design your game for a broader range of PC performance. I'm making a visually rich, shader intensive game on a desktop gaming rig, and forcing myself to work on it with a netbook... this has kept my i's dotted and my t's crossed, so I know this strategy work

    I cant resist... I grew up on the Mac side of the force, and perhaps it was a legitimate argument that you should pay over inflated prices for Mac hardware when the PPC was still around (even though for nearly 10 year Apple wasted the PPC on 680x0 instruction emulation) but for those who understand the technical side of the hardware, that argument went right out the window in 2005 when they switched to Intel, I left the platform as soon as that happened because it was clear that Apple was abandoning its desktop platform. To those of you still on that sinking ship- you had better grab an ipad as a raft, and paddle hard.
    Before you flame... Mac OSX is the best operating system ever, and i think it will be around as a development and hobby platform for a long time, but i never use it because when I exclusively used Macs (25 years thank you) I had always found myself needing a PC or Windblows program for many tasks on my mac, be it burning a CD image or opening a document. Since i switched I have only needed a mac to run Unity (which is now a moot point). Its not because Windows is better technically, its not, it is the worst commercial OS. I run OSX86 on both of my PC's and never boot it, hell i even have a virtual machine of it, but never start it. There just is not enough software. If you only email, surf, and write papers, then I guess MacOSX is the best.
    Gates summed everything I'm trying to say up a long time ago:
    "If you can't make it good, at least make it look good.” His strategy won, sadly, and since most compuer users are as dumb as spider monkeys, things aren't going to be changing. Doubly sadly, Apple has followed Gate's suit, and turned the Mac from a computer experience into a fashion trend for spider monkeys.
     
  12. summerl0v3r

    summerl0v3r

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    my game dev will be only for Ios (iphone games) so nothing geometry heavy

    so would you suggest the new mac book pro or even the mac air

    as i have a 14 month old daughter that loves the mall and i can get a lot of work done while sipping coffee at the mall so i would love to get a laptop
     
  13. jc_lvngstn

    jc_lvngstn

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    "turned the Mac from a computer experience into a fashion trend for spider monkeys. "

    ... lol what? hahah that's the funniest thing I've read all day.

    Seriously though...I always wondered why Apple encourages bootcamp, isn't the Mac already a full computing experience....?
    /ducks
    /runs away
     
  14. Aras

    Aras

    Unity Technologies

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    Let's put Macs vs PCs discussions aside for a moment and return to the original question mkay? :)

    Yes, GeForce 320M is better than GeForce 9400M. They both use system memory for VRAM, both are integrated GPUs, but 9400M has 1800 Mpixels/second fillrate, while 320M has 3600 Mpixels/second. Other specs higher as well.

    That said, if you get a MacPro, then it will be a beast in all aspects, but putting GeForce 320M into that would be a crime against the universe. An integrated GPU for an otherwise awesome machine? Come on.
     
  15. ScienceFiction

    ScienceFiction

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    honestly, save some money! there wont be a noticeable difference between the 9400 and 320m, aside from power draw, for your needs.
     
  16. ScienceFiction

    ScienceFiction

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    BTW i feel bad about my rant earlier... I think that the Unity community embodies alot of what Apple USED to stand for. You guys are awesome, creative, savy, and you tend to think about having fun fir
     
  17. emergence

    emergence

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    LoL, I love how I derailed an entire thread using a single sentence, like a penny thrown onto railroad tracks. Hahahahahaha!

    I am not arguing over the Operating Systems. I really could care less, they're all the same to me.

    I'm just stating a simple fact: The actual Computer Hardware is overpriced for the Mac.

    It has nothing to do with the Operating System. It has to do with the fact they overcharge you by forcing you to pay a "Mac Label Fee" which is overpricing the computers solely because they are Mac's.

    Not O/S debate. Computer Hardware (which is the exact same in PC's and MAC's) which is always overpriced on a Mac.


    Of course... PC's are overpriced at places like Best Buy, which scam people every day, selling them PC's they know nothing about. But then again, I see Best Buy as the same as MAC- overpriced fluff which lies to the ignorant masses to oversell their inferior (because they use worse hardware, for more price) products.
     
  18. Tilluss

    Tilluss

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    I think the difference between macs and PC's is all down to personal preference and what you want to do with your machine at the end of the day.

    (When I mention windows I'm talking about windows 7 in the rest of this post)

    Windows 7 has made the gap between OSX and Windows very small indeed. Most peoples arguments will be about the UI and how they can't stand one or the other, and the price of hardware. OSX is good for the fact that it's hardware is made by the same people who make the software and so you wont get incompatibility issues and know everything will just work, where as Windows has to cater for every type of different hardware configuration possible which will inevitably cause some issues and instabilities sometimes, but windows has come along leaps and bounds in this department. Another thing with hardware is that you can't deny that the build quality of macs are second to none, when you use a mac it ooses quality rather than a typical PC which is made of plastic and a lot are built with the cheapest parts possible. It's true that the innards of macs and PC's are mostly the same, but there are things like the battery and trackpad that do make the macs have that little extra quality to them (yes this only applies to laptops in this case) that most PC's don't. The one thing with PC's is that you have free reign with updating them and this negates the quality argument from before to bring PC's as being more universally liked over macs, but then you could say that the apple customer service and 'genius bar' is brilliant compared to all other PC manufacturers... and the argument goes on.

    OSX UI is a lot more simplified than that of Windows, but windows is more flexible, and this reflects heavily in the settings in both OS's. Where as OSX preferences is to the point and doesn't really delve very deep in some area's, in windows you can get down to the very nitty gritty settings if you want to to tweak things to just how you like. The wealth of software available for PC's is huge and something that OSX can only dream of having, but on the same note the quality of OSX software is typically higher than that of PC software, which some might argue is more valuable to them. Viruses is a mute point, OSX will get hit more and more by threats the more popular it becomes, the only reason that windows is more targeted is because it's so widely used and hence more profitable for attackers.

    As a final note, I think OSX appeals to people who don't want any hassle with their computer, they want it to just work and not have to mess around with it to get certain things to work and to do it with the up most quality, and they pay for the privilege of that. PC's are for people who want flexibility and the wealth of software available on the market, they are also cheaper and can be upgraded easily, but you need to know your way around hardware to do this yourself which most of the general population don't know how to do (this wont apply to all the geeks ;) on this forum, but think about all your family asking for your help).

    If I have a family member who asks for any recommendations for a computer now with the least amount of hassle, I will always point them in the direction of the mac mini as they will mostly be surfing the internet, watching videos' and doing light work (word processing, excel etc). They will never once come back to me with any problems, and any that they do have they can quickly take it to the apple store to get it fixed professionally with the least amount of hassle.

    I used PC's solely up until about a year and a half ago when I got the basic white macbook for iOS development, now I use PC's and Mac's every day and I like both equally, windows is better in some areas, OSX is better in others, it all comes down to personal preference.
     
  19. ScienceFiction

    ScienceFiction

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    fair enough tilluss, but emergence is right about the hardware. It is the same stuff in PC's, but the prices are jacked through the roof. Case in point: go look up the price for a mac 8800gt on ebay, this is a card that nvidia had discontinued, which can be had for $50 or less on ebay without the "for mac" description. The mac version is $200. Do macbooks or mac pros even have i7 yet?
     
  20. emergence

    emergence

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    One's best bet would be to get a PC and put a MAC O/S on it...lol :p

    It's entirely possible, and significantly cheaper. So if you want the MAC O/S, get a PC.

    PC always. Always. Unless you also enjoy flushing money down toilets.
     
  21. Vert

    Vert

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    There was a company a while back that was putting Mac OS on standard PC equipment. The catch was Apple ran them into the ground with a EULA violation lawsuit. The Mac License does not permit you to install the OS on non-mac hardware. Also, since Mac has a select set of hardware, don't expect all PC hardware to work. Only specific motherboards/Ram/Graphics cars etc are compatible with the OS and thus you would have to use specific hardware to build a "pc" machine that could run OS X.
     
  22. HolBol

    HolBol

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    No. The EULA states that you cannot put OS X on a computer that is NOT apple labeled (And this does not mean apple-branded, so just sticking an official apple sticker to it would be fine enough. It doesn't say you can't do it, but i says you can't resell it in that state, which is why apple filed a lawsuit against them.
     
  23. ColossalDuck

    ColossalDuck

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    Yup, its entirely possible, significantly cheaper, and usually illegal... not that that stops me.

    By the way, if you are developing strictly for IOS, get the 9800m. Unless you have the dough to spend of course.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  24. ColossalDuck

    ColossalDuck

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    Nearly correct there, its actually specific to motherboard features, processors and graphics.
     
  25. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    Yes! Another MAC vs PC thing! Awesome!

    Lets see, I have a.... PC? so I gotta say something silly about how PCs are better than Macs? Hmm ok...

    I'm tired of hearing mac users talking about mac's "hardware" and "software", and "usefulness", just forget it!! ok? We all know "Mac" is mostly a fashionable brand! People I know that have a mac usually don't know much about computers, but they know a lot about photography XD (or at least act like they do) and they LOVE brands, and it's no surprise to me they like mac better! This guy at work bought a macbook thing, and he was like 'it's so stylish, I love it!', so he bought it, and if you ask me, it's the perfect computer for him!
    But really, when it comes to the serious stuff, who cares about brands or style.

    Macs last longer, right? But do you really want the same computer for more than 5 years? I've never used same Pc more than 3 years, performance is important to me, so I have to upgrade. After 3 years I don't know If they would have lasted more or less than a mac, but who cares?? right? haha

    And, macs greatest thing.... the OS, that was the main thing about macs for the past 10~ years.... or something :p, but right now, windows 7 seems like a worthy adversary. Some rant about how microsoft stole the ideas from mac... honestly, what does it matter if microsoft 'stole' anything... In fact, if there was an OS stole all the good things from EVERYTHING, it'd be the greatest OS ever! And i'd use that OS and I'd be smart to do so! So basically, w7 is good, and it's a worthy adversary, or if you like linux, you can use that instead, or you can use both if you want! Freedom is a good thing sometimes.

    So yeah, in short, PCs are way better (lol just kidding!) Macs vs PCs fights are crazy! It depends on a MILLION things. It depends on your needs, your economy, your taste, accessibility to the hardware where you live, everything! so many variables! Only a fool would deny both have their own different benefits, and being so, knowing that every person is different, isn't it obvious that 'better' is a relative thing?
     
  26. ColossalDuck

    ColossalDuck

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    Very true in OS wars.
     
  27. Chub

    Chub

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    I've got to admit I prefer Mac OSX to Windows 7 but overall my current PC is a lot more powerful than my mac and cost about half the price.
     
  28. ColossalDuck

    ColossalDuck

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    Why not try to get hackintosh running? Or, OSx86 is the real name I guess.
     
  29. kayoone

    kayoone

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    Most of your "Mac is so expensive" arguments are flawed anyway. Dont compare the Mac Pro with some self-built PC. The Mac Pro has Xeon Workstation-class CPUs, a very good internal design, very good power supply etc. Also you can use any Monitor with it, so you dont need to compare a Dell Monitor with an Apple Cinema Display, which i agree is overpriced.
    You have to compare the Mac Pro to a HP or IBM Workstation and suddenly you realize it isnt that expensive anymore, it might even be cheaper.
    Also you guys are only speaking about the initial price when you talk about costs, while the real cost is all about depreciation. A Mac Pro (or any Mac for that matter) will hold its value much better than any PC, especially self-built ones. Ive seen alot of people getting 50-65%+ from the inital price by selling their Mac Pro after 3 years, now try that with a PC.
    Of course not everybody needs a real Workstation, so you need to get an Imac or mac mini, Apples line-up is somewhat limited there but thats part of their philosophy.

    The Macbooks are also very very good pieces of hardware. I tried to find similar notebooks in the PC world but i just couldnt find one that would match Apples attention to detail. The touchpad on macbooks alone is way better than anything on pc laptops, and since they fabricate their own hardware they pay much more attention to weight, battery power and built quality.

    The thread-starter mentioned "Mac Pro" but i am pretty sure what we means is a macbook pro, which are two totally different machines, one being a high class Workstation, the other being a laptop computer.

    For Iphone development a 320M will be more than enough, but even the last generation Macbooks will be fast enough. In fact, any 3-4 year old Laptop will be able to handle Iphone Quality games easily.

    Everybody should just get what they want, for me its a Mac and OSX because as a developer you just have the better tools on a UNIX based system. Maybe not for Unity3d and .NET, but everything else basically and i dont only do Unity development.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2011
  30. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    @kayoone: don't mix up "expensive" with "worth the price", the "Mac is so expensive" argument is not flawed, how can it be? price tags are numbers, and all you have to do is compare, it's barely debatable. What you are debating is something different, you are explaining why the price is right, and macs are worth every penny.

    Let's do this with cars. Aside from the differences, if you compare a fast BMW and a fast MERCEDES, they are both pretty fast. So I could argue the Mercedes does 0-100 in 5 seconds, and the BMW does it in 5.2 seconds, it's only a 0.2 seconds difference but the Mercedes is twice as expensive.
    But you probably have many reasons why the Mercedes is worth every penny of those 80 grand it costs, and you will probably be right, but it doesn't change the fact Mercedes are way too expensive, and for 45k you can get a BMW with almost the same power.
    Just to clarify I can't justify any of those numbers I said before, they are only meant to make a point, I drive a 81s beetle XD, does 0-100 in 5 minutes!
     
  31. ColossalDuck

    ColossalDuck

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    Well, at least you aren't riding my bike. 0-100 in... I can't ride that fast... so infinite.
     
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