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[Archived] Alk MMORPG Framework

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by Alk Studios, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. Alk Studios

    Alk Studios

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    You have both been added to the beta list :)
     
  2. taichiu727magnus

    taichiu727magnus

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    btw i have a question, how does networking works? does it still uses the same syntax with unity default netowkring?
     
  3. Alk Studios

    Alk Studios

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    With regards to Unity's default networking syntax, I presume you are specifically talking about Unity's NetworkView etc, this is above the level of the networking library and as such syntax would be dependent on your implementation of the networking library.

    The provided template MMO shall feature a fairly simple syntax to allow beginners to easily adapt the system to their projects and learn the system.

    The basic sending of packets is derived from typical .Net sockets and typically involves the sending of packets to either clients or servers using :
    Code (CSharp):
    1. ClientID.SendAsync(NetPacket);
    2. ServerID.SendAsync(NetPacket);
    The receiving of packets is delegated based on the the received opcode in which a specific method is assigned to handle a specific packet type. The syntax for creating a packet type is fairly simple and is primarily based on the extension of the NetPacket class and use of the PacketWriter class for serialization.

    A sample of a login packet definition from the template MMO is provided below:
    Code (CSharp):
    1. public class LoginPacket : NetPacket
    2.     {
    3.         public LoginPacket(Guid connectionIndex, string username, string password) : base((short)Opcodes.LOGIN)
    4.         {
    5.             Pw.Write(connectionIndex);
    6.             Pw.Write(username);
    7.             Pw.Write(password);
    8.         }
    9.     }
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  4. taichiu727magnus

    taichiu727magnus

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    ok thank you got it
     
  5. Litwin

    Litwin

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    Project canceled? I wonder how is the progress of the development.
    Is there any type of group, contact or forum? Has some way to collaborate?
     
  6. Alk Studios

    Alk Studios

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    Hello and thanks for your interest. The product is still in development, however I am current in the process of switching over ISP so am currently only able to access the net via my phone, so apologies for the lack of updates.
    I should hopefully have net access again by next weekend (fibre :)).

    Our website is located at http://alkstudios.com.
     
  7. Litwin

    Litwin

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    Well, I have a list of questions in relation to your project:
    -
    Because you will not sell the source code of the network?
    - What will be the limit per map?
    - What are the classes you will add?
    - How will the system works collision? (Client/Server)
    (I guess I should add the basic classes of an MMORPG: Warrior (Sword+Shield or Sword two hands) // Archer (Bow) // Mage (Staff) // Priest (Staff) // Rogue (Daggers)
    - As the NPC system works?
    - How does it work and how will the AI of mobs?
    (Mobs normal/agressive? Drop system?)
    - Character:
    -- Character will have status? (STR/DEX/INT) // (Physic Attack, Magic, Defense.....)
    -- Skill/Spell system?
    - Inventory system?
    - You will implement the Pathfinder system?

    - You know KBEngine? It is a network with core c++ and open source.
    (link: https://github.com/kbengine/kbengine // basic mmorpg using KBEngine: https://bitbucket.org/kbengine/warring/)
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
  8. Alk Studios

    Alk Studios

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    Hello Litwin, I shall attempt to answer your questions however some seems rather vague so forgive any misunderstandings.

    Q. Because you will not sell the source code of the network?
    A. The core networking library is only provided as a compiled library (.dll) and as such shall not be available as source.

    Q. What will be the limit per map?
    A. If you are referring to player or concurrent user limitation, the only limit is that imposed by your server hardware.

    Q. What are the classes you will add?
    A. Initially the provided template MMO shall only feature a single generic class, however the functionality shall be there for you to easily implement your own alternative classes.

    Q. How will the system works collision? (Client/Server)
    A. Whilst terrain height maps shall be implemented, the system shall initially use client sided collision testing.

    Q. As the NPC system works?
    A. NPCs shall be defined within the elements editor, NPCs shall then be placed using the unity editor which shall strip NPC geo data from the client and create a server NPC map. This system basically involves the definition of NPCs and the placement of NPCs being controlled server-side.

    Q. How does it work and how will the AI of mobs? (Mobs normal/agressive? Drop system?)
    A. Monsters shall feature basic AI such as movement and chase/attack. Monsters along with their drops/loots shall also be defined by the elements editor.

    Q. Character will have status? (STR/DEX/INT) // (Physic Attack, Magic, Defense.....)
    A. Yes, the provided MMO template features several attributes/stats such as strength, dexterity, intelligence, constitution, reputation and experience.

    Q. Skill/Spell system, Inventory system?
    A. Simple generic systems shall be provided.

    Q. You will implement the Pathfinder system?
    A. The server-sided system shall feature a primitive path finding system based on the monsters AI logic.

    Q. You know KBEngine? It is a network with core c++ and open source.
    A. I personally am not familiar with this product, however there exist many different networking frameworks, some of which are also open source.

    Hope that answers you questions and remember this framework is not designed to provide a ready built MMO service, but rather to provide a basis for such.

    Lastly, I would like to apologise for the delay in releasing the framework.
    Over the past two weeks, the other programmer had to resign due to prior commitments, thus I am now personally responsible for coding the template MMO system.
     
    Litwin likes this.
  9. AVISSW

    AVISSW

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    Hi i wonder if I can be part of the beta testers?
     
  10. MrMassively

    MrMassively

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    For some reason this framework was heading in some other direction in my head,

    but seems to be no different that the Atavism, let me clarify why:
    - no server core source code, you have stated there will be no server core source, just a compiled .dll :-(
    -no server side collisions, just client side only. what?? i had the feeling there was going to be such a server feature :-(
    - so primary a windows server will be best in this framework since .net will be faster than mono in a linux setup, mono seems to be a turtle compared to .net
    -no udp support
    and price still seems to be way overpriced for the given features.

    imo, Atavism seems to be a better choice for me, altho i am not a fan of it, but mostly for the server multiplatform that does not requires mono for linux boxes, since imo linux is the best option to run a production server, less expensive and less resource intensive that a windows server. and also for the price packages and existing server mmo features plugins.

    i dont know, i just thought this server was going to be better option and was going to throw out of the water Atavism, but now it just dont feel that anymore.

    you really need to get the server side collision down in any given mmo framework, that adds an extra authoritative server layer to the framework.
    otherwise youll have cheaters all over the place speedhacking and walking thru walls etc.... so i am not sure why in your feature list you claim to be fully authoritative. server?
    well, at least you guys have Area of interest, i just hope is not as poor as the Atavism AOI per total amount of entities in the whole scene, than a in relation of radius distance from the actual player
     
    Litwin likes this.
  11. Litwin

    Litwin

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    @MrMassively
    Yes, i don't liked too. It's too bad not having the source code of the server.
     
  12. dreamlarp

    dreamlarp

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    He is still developing this. Lets hope he see's the value in releasing the server code.
     
  13. Alk Studios

    Alk Studios

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    I think there is a misconception here. Full source is provided for both server and client systems. Only the core networking/socket system is compiled.

    Also server collision shall be available, however it may not be completed upon initial beta release i.e. v1.0.

    With regards to mono performance, your client us also running on mono as do many enterprise level technologies. During production, the slight performance overhead of mono shall more than likely be dwarfed by other issues such as hardware or the implementation of overly complicated or unnecessary logic etc. So to summarise, the argument againstthe utilisation of mono for the server is not valid at this point.

    Also as hinted in my previous post, due to the loss of a developer, development has slowed down and as such I will not offer an eta at this time as we do not wish to release a rushed product.

    Forgive any typos etc, this was posted by my mobile phone
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  14. MrMassively

    MrMassively

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    core networking system is the heart of the engine and it is a dll? so, this is not full source code at all,. same with atavism core networking is blackboxed aswell.

    excuse my ranting, but i can see it coming again, like Atavism and many others did to lots of people promised the server side collision from the start, its been a year now and they keep on moving the server side collision over and over , hence all the fuss, backers are all pissed off because of the lies,

    i just hope you wont be doing the same thing to all this nice trusting community.
    and never release the server side collision or keep on pushing it, since this is part of the mmo core. and now even worse with just you developing, and i imagine you lost your main lead programmer, so this is even bad news for the project.


    Me in particular will not be investing a steep $250 for a non authoritative server no complete source code with no initial server side collisions and with a hope youll add it sometime this century,
    not a chance being only you as a developer.
    so i dont believe and will warn everyone here to consider before they spend their hard earned money in the same prank over and over again,

    Sorry bro, maybe your intentions are all legit but we all been burnt over and over again,
    Ill be more than happy to support your project but not until i see the main mmo core including server side collisions to have a real authoritative server, and not just a promise like every one else has done and never delivered.

    so, i am not trashing your post but warning the nice trusting community to think twice before they fall into the same prank over and over again.

    good day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
    BackwoodsGaming and Litwin like this.
  15. BackwoodsGaming

    BackwoodsGaming

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    I'm kinda in the same boat as MrMassively.. Until there is server-side collision and authoritative server processes, I'm not even interested in taking the time to beta the product. Personally I don't consider a product an MMO engine without those two core functions. I'm not going to waste time on a product on the promise that they may come some day. It just doesn't meet my requirements. You can go ahead and drop me from the beta list. If things should change, I may still be interested in taking a look.

    Other than that I think you have some great ideas for your project. Wish the the best of luck with it! :)
     
  16. Alk Studios

    Alk Studios

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    Firstly how would having access to the core networking i.e. access to the asynchronous socket wrappers etc benefit you?
    The fact is that most people who license networking/MMO middleware solutions do so to lower production times and cost, those wanting bespoke networking are free to implement their own systems.

    Do you have access to Photon's core networking ? No.
    Do 99% of developers working with that solution need it? No.
    Lastly, another reason for compiling the networking library was to introduce a licensing solution to limit the potential for piracy, offering a fully open system results in no viable method to secure the investment of both the company and customers and would result in piracy which in turn results in higher costs...which we try to avoid.

    I have stated from the beginning that we would not initially utilise server collision, therefore I have not lied. Server collision is a very small component of a MMO and the majority of commercial MMORPG do not utilise it in a generic manner, as such it is fairly awkward to create a generic yet efficient server collision solution based on the possible projects the framework could be used in.
    If you are making a minecraft type game, I could create server collision based on simple bounding volumes in a day or two...yet if you're making a game with dynamic collisions etc it would get exponentially more difficult to produce a suitable system, unless you wish to sacrifice a level of accuracy.
    So to summarise, the creation of a collision system is simple, yet developing a system that is efficient and suitable to a wide array of different game types etc is difficult...the key issue to remember is that all parts of this system are designed to be generic and adaptable.

    As I previously stated, that the system may not initially include server-side collision, it may be included and it may not, further information shall become available nearer to release and as we have decided to delay the release for the near future, it may well be present at release.
    Once again server collision is not the defining point of MMO middleware and of no importance until you have implemented all intended features and begin alpha/beta testing phases, long before which the collision system shall be implemented.

    I am the lead programmer, I built the core networking from scratch on my own, along with the majority of the system. We lost a developer responsible for programming UI, shaders and small client side systems, which has slowed down development, yet I am more than qualified to continue.
    However development shall continue in private to avoid confusion and delays.

    I respect your opinion, yet at no point have I attempted to be deceitful to any members of the community, in fact we have done the exact opposite by delaying the release of our product due to us not wanting to release a sub-par system.
    Direct from the mighty dictionary gods:
    Currently all data sent from the client to the server is appropriately authorised, hence the system is fully authoritative.

    I feel sorry that yourself and perhaps other may have been "burned" in the past, but I believe your generalisations about this product has no legitimate basis and as such comes off as slightly disrespectful.

    Just ask yourself one question, why have I not done as others apparently have and just released this product half built? I have no need to con people and am primarily a game developer, this product is a by-product of an in-house system we were developing and as such is offered as a courtesy to fellow developers to aid in productivity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  17. Alk Studios

    Alk Studios

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    Many thanks for your wishes :)
    Please read the post above and for the record the system is authoritative.

    For the time being development shall be private and more information shall be presented at a later stage as we are currently also working on other projects, including a MMO based on the framework.

    For the time being this thread should be archived.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  18. MrMassively

    MrMassively

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    -photon distributes the server in a .dll hence they dont claim it to be full C# source code available where you claim to offer full c# client and server and yet you say the core is a dll




    I know, because you cant deliver, so far most if not all the existing mmokits availabe here for unity have failed to deliver server side collisions and yet many have promised , also as you doing it right now:
    your own quote:
    "Also server collision shall be available, however it may not be completed upon initial beta release e.good. v1.0."


    i guess your gui designer was the one doing all the programming since if i read correctly your own thread from the early posts you were going into beta testing more than a month ago, but now that your gui designer/programmer bailed out on you, you pretty much were left behind.
    sorry to hear that. that guy must of been very good and really fast programmer.

    sorry bro,
    -but where i come from, if a server does not have server side collisions, then it is not fully authoritative as you claim your framework to be, maybe in your own little world it is , but not in the real world of gaming developing.



    hmmm, disrespectful is when one promise and never deliver. dont you think?

    maybe the generalization about your product are not legitimate for you in your head, but ill bet that more than 1 here in this forum will see it in a different perspective than you.
    i am not making stuff up, just a copy and paste of your own words.

    good luck bro.
     
  19. dreamlarp

    dreamlarp

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    I would like to say that I think Alk Studios is getting hostility that they have not earned. I too have spent way too much on promises and lost some on outright scams. But what I think everyone is missing is he has not taken a dime yet. He is taking suggestions and doing best he can with the loss of one of his developers.

    I am not saying everyone does not have the right to voice our concerns I just think it can be done in a better way than being hostile. How about posting what we are looking for and asking could you please make sure that these things are taken care of first.

    Yes because of what has gone before him he will have to do more to make sure no one lumps him in with the bad apples. But I say lets not judge until he starts taking money for his work.
     
    Hrothvitnir and Teila like this.
  20. Alk Studios

    Alk Studios

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    I have stated several times that source for both server and client systems are available whilst core networking is not and all core functionality is segregated from the client and server systems.
    You have also failed to answer the questions with regards to what need you have for access to the core networking.

    This is our chosen business model and if you have an issue with that, then feel free to use an alternative or build your own.

    Yes I have stated that server collision is being worked on...how can that be construed as "I cant deliver"...
    You make literally no sense and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

    I actually cant believe the non-sense your pulling from nowhere, especially from someone who clearly has little developer experience.
    The development time increased due to potential customers suggesting new features, paired with the fact that a lot of optimising and re-factoring occurred to improve the product.
    Also as you seem to love my quotes so much, re-read my posts for example on the first page:
    You will notice that I never gave a concrete release date due.
    The developer was hired around the 21st of July 2014 to help alleviate the delay, however they had another project to work on so were unable to continue. So once again you are speaking non-sense...

    You even argue against the dictionary's definition.

    We have not yet released the product, yet alone failed to deliver any features thus I fail to understand your need to waste electrons with these inflammatory posts.

    You are making no sense and are clearly demonstrating yourself as immature and disrespectful. You were also never considered for beta testing due to your attitude, so you have nothing to lose or gain here.

    Best of luck in the future and once again, I hope you find a product suitable for yourself, past that, there is no need for your continued correspondence within this post.

    I would like to apologise for any lack of professionalism on my behalf within this post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  21. Alk Studios

    Alk Studios

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    Thanks for your support dreamlarp, however this person appears to have some unresolved issues with a previous purchase and shall most likely continue to post for the sake of taking out their misplaced aggression.
     
  22. dreamlarp

    dreamlarp

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    Well my point was you have not pre-sold this product with promises. If we start off acting this way to every new developer because of the bad few then no one will make any quality products for us all.

    I have seen many and bought many products from fast buck artists but I at least wait and see how new products work out and how the developer conducts himself.

    But if we assume the worst each time instead of contributing to the development then what good does that do anyone?
    Once you start taking money then this all changes. But you are still taking suggestions and working on the product.

    I do hope that this is everything we all want it to be but it would never get there with all this hostility going on.
     
    Teila and Alk Studios like this.
  23. Alk Studios

    Alk Studios

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    I agree, hence the reason for development going private for the time being and as you have pointed out, we have not yet released the product as we do not want to release an unfinished/flawed product which seems to occur often with these types of systems, nor do we want to be pigeon-holed with developers whom commit to these practices.
     
  24. dreamlarp

    dreamlarp

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    Any news on the development?
     
  25. Alk Studios

    Alk Studios

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    I am currently on vacation so development in on pause until I return.
    Once I get back, I will be working on porting the core networking to C++ as it is being used for the development of an in-house MMORPG engine for one of our projects.
    Once that has been completed, we shall begin further development on the Unity plugin.