Apple offers dual booting into Windows XP

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/

I had to check the date.

All you PC people can now get a good Mac and run Windows on it most of the time and the Mac OS for Unity... though, I bet you'd hang out in Mac OS more.

 

Oh yeah i have forgotten: It was the mac hardware which rocks so much... :O)

Regards,

taumel

 

Glad you finally remembered

 

This is really cool. Especially considering that my Intel iMac should be arriving this afternoon.

 

*thinking on*

Apple in the first place wants to sell it's overpriced hardware. Okay that's the reason why they don't offer it the other way around and because they don't have those zillion drivers windows has.

Now if i would be a software firm which has a large market in mind (windows) and have somekind of limited ressources, doesn't that mean that i primary do the windows version and forget more and more about the osx version as now these users can use bootcamp if they want my software...thinking of all the games...

*thinking off*

 

Means people will buy Macs then use windows, over time they will start to use OS X more and more untill they leave windows in the dust. Then with the larger market share we will get more games. This whole time more and more OMG devs will be entering the market place and Mac gaming will be like it used to, on the bleeding edge.

 

The problem with this is that OS X user would have to boot into Windows to use just your program. Unless is it a must have, they will not go to the trouble, especially the average user. Thus, they would not buy. Also, you might run into the problem like MS did with Word 6 for the Mac, where Mac users refused to upgrade because the program behaved and looked like a Windows program. Don't forget, Mac users tend to buy their software

Businesses can also "try" Macs and have a fallback to run XP if they have problems. If they decide OS X is not for them, they still have a machine that can run Windows XP so their hardware purchase would not be a loss.

The move is good for Mac owners such as myself since now if their is a game or program that I must have that is only on the PC (say a consumer landscaping program), I could run it on my Mac. Catch is, I would still have to buy XP. That is much less than buying a new PC. That leaves me with more money in my pocket and more that Apple and the Mac ecosystem have a shot at getting.

 

I'm so glad that in the coming couple of years, the myth of "overpriced" macs and the Mhz myth will be disappearing and we'll be able to finally and monumentally compare Apples to Oranges... both running Windows.

Sadly, for this forum and group, the one definitive place where Macs are sorely and woefully behind is in gaming. With Unity, however, we can say it's one of the best places to develop games.

I'm hoping that having some of these more widely used chip sets will allow Apple to make some headway in the gaming department with better 3D driver support and maybe even try to get compliance with standard PC video cards. That's just a hope, not a prediction.

 

@outcast
You know nohting about pc users if you have these kind of dreams! :O)

@lfrog
Oh i have to admit that i haven't read through the whole article i just read virtualisation and thought that i also instantly could switch between the two...like with vanderpool.

@aaronsullivan
If hope is lost then everthing is lost...keep on hoping man!


Regards,

taumel

 

Got to love how you think all PC users are like you, or those you know. It's a varried world out there, and I know a ton of PC users, most of the hardcore geeks I know don't touch windows with a 10 foot pole (Linux and Unix anyone) or only use it to play games. The switch to intel processors and the ability to dual boot already has them drooling over getting a Mac and being able to use OS X. So don't asume, I don't. Jeff

 

I prefer that from your unrealistically pessimistic view.

 

@Outcast
Never said they are like me. If i would be like the usual windows user then we would not talk to each other here. By the way how much does one windows user weight in your opinion? Just to get a taste of your tons...

@AngryAnt
You can take it for free.

By the way who is responsible for the driver support at the moment? Do the drivers come from Apple or the vendors (intel,ati)? Are all intel-macs supported?


Regards,

taumel

 

Not supporting all the intel models would be idiocy and not very apple-like. I'm guessing the drivers are first manufactured by the vendors and then checked/edited by apple.

 

>>>Not supporting all the intel models would be idiocy and not very apple-like. I'm guessing the drivers are first manufactured by the vendors and then checked/edited by apple.<<<

I've read that it's not running on minMacs and the usual things like slow openGL-drivers.

How about this: http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/

Mac game developers aren't happy as i thought...(beware it's german)
http://www.games4mac.de/content_g4m/meldung.php?action=fullnews&showcomments=1&id=4345


Regards,

taumel

 

Over at IGM the mac game developers mostly had a rather optimistic outlook. Also a lot of the guys in the forums have been playing PC games already, even our own davyjj. Well take care.

Oh and Taumel as far as how much each windows users weight in my opinion it depends on how into computers they are. Obviously if they don't know squate (same with mac users in this category) then I don't realy care what they think as much. But if they know a lot and are good at what they do then I try and see things from there angle and hope that widdens my perspective too.

 

>>>...Obviously if they don't know squate (same with mac users in this category) then I don't realy care what they think as much.<<<

The aren't the majority and that's want counts in practice most of the time.


Regards,

taumel

 

I believe you're missing a "some" in the beginning of that sentence. What is your point?

 

>>>I believe you're missing a "some" in the beginning of that sentence. What is your point?<<<

It doesn't make sense to make conversions for mac games from pc titles any more if there is windows onboard as long as the big games are done they way they are done right now.

It only does make sense if i only have to hit the publish button once. And hopefully the drivers for osx will improve as otherwise certain kind of games won't be played on osx as they lack the higher framerate from windows optimized drivers which on the other side isn't a deal for puzzelgames and so on...


Regards,

taumel

 

Perhaps, but I think this is an gross oversimplification of the market(s). Mac users still want to stay in their native OS. Rebooting is a pain and the only time many Mac users reboot is when a system software update requires them to reboot. Also, they probably do not want to have to buy a retail version of Windows. Now hard core types may not mind, but the average user will.

What this does do is allow Mac owners that "need" to play one or two games to play those games without buying a PC. However, those titles will be few and far inbetween (I can think of possibly one for myself). I would much rather spend money on a Mac port than have to boot over into XP and I am willing to wait, even if it never comes (means I will not by the PC title).

I predict that those shops willing to port will be pleasantly surprised that the sales will cover the costs and give them profit. Hopefully sharing the same general architecture will ease the porting.

I would not necessarily mind if the big houses stop porting, that would leave a lot more room for the Mac indie developers and more dollars for those indies. Mac users are a loyal lot that actually reward (i.e. pay for) developers of Mac software. Of course, the product is often superior

What many forget is there is a reason big companies like MS and Adobe still have their Mac ports, they are very profitable. My understanding from interviews and financials that the ROI tends to be substantially higher for the Mac titles. Also, being successful in the Mac market provides you with a nice safety net to venture in the much tougher Windows market. Apple did this really well with the iPod and iTunes. It was like a giant beta The Windows market usually requires a marketing budget that is orders of magnitude larger than what is required in the Mac market. Maybe that is because the Mac market is starved for software :wink:

Now true virtualization may change this, but we are not there yet.

blah, blah, blah .... Now I am just rambling.

 

Looks like we may be getting close. http://www.parallels.com There is a beta out.

 

Does anyone know if the bootselector now also will work on a x86-miniMac?

*update* Yup seems to be the case...


Regards,

tamel

 

One of the big reasons for bootcamp is that Adobe will not port Photoshop as a universal until some time in 2007, maybe even late 2007.

Thus to use the Photoshop on your new Intel Mac you will need Bootcamp and Windows.

Also as side point 1up.com has posted a test of games on Windows on the Mac. And give it pretty good reviews.

Again, Apple's hand was forced because Photoshop natively on an Intel Mac could be a year away.e

 

Photoshop worked pretty dang well under Rosetta. That isn't at all a reason for them to do it.

 

Wait until the end of the year. Rumor has it that Apple will be releasing the "Yellowbox". NEXT had libraries that could be installed onto windows and would allow any NEXT program to be run on Windows. If Yellowbox is released Mac developers can compile a single Universal Binary that will run on Macs and Windows.

Kinda puts anyone who can only develop on Windows at a disadvantage.

http://www.macosrumors.com/20060402A.php

 

Well... universal binaris that work in mac and windows would be really great...

But well, unity make games for windows and mac , we don't need more.

 

If the Yellow Box rumour is true, this could open a way to port the Unity IDE to Windows so we can start a 3D web plugin revolution!

*ahem*

 

>>>Wait until the end of the year. Rumor has it that Apple will be releasing the "Yellowbox". NEXT had libraries that could be installed onto windows and would allow any NEXT program to be run on Windows. If Yellowbox is released Mac developers can compile a single Universal Binary that will run on Macs and Windows.<<<

Hmm don't misunderstand me but i would rather like to see otee taking a second chance at unity and redesign all the stuff which is so much osx dependend. As the comments showed about the ide it didn't sound at it was thought through well if you have multiple platforms in mind.

This would make you independent of eventually bloated and buggy code from Apple and also be the chance in the future to run beside of windows maybe also on linux.


Regards,

taumel

 

Sorry to get off topic here, but I have to ask. Taumel, is your avatar a stick figure with a boner? Been wondering for a while now...

Bill

 

What? :O)

 

Maybe it's a extra leg or some thing, but hes definatly got 3 sticks coming out of the crotch area.

 

Well, i think i was born with some natural limbs then. :O)

 

Whoa, thats you? You should think about putting on a few pounds. Being that skinny is unhealthy.

 

Obviously it's a abstracted view.
How about you, what does your picture say?

By the way any real pictures of the people in here? :O)

 

This made my day. They say laughter is the best medicine.

 

As opposed to being dependant on bloated and buggy code from Microsoft?

 

It doesnt say any thing, it's an abstract view of me.

 

Btw, the dual boot think is awesome. Cant wait to get a intel-mac.



Bill

 

@lfrog
No picture of yours? :O)

@noob
Yep, but you only would have to rely on their bloated code and not to the one of both.

@sync1b
To me it looks like a door which is tiled into three parts. Come on and open it a bit more.


Regards,

taumel

 

Unfortunately that would require some skill, of which I have none

 

Providing this hasn't already been said...

When I got a my first mac, a few years back, I noticed a few things...

It had a one button mouse.
It had a powerPc CPU in it
It wouldn't run any of my windoze apps.

Of course, there are still subtle differences between macs and pc's, such as they're damn well made computers, and they're overpriced. Oh, and you can't upgrade them (which does have a good side).

But judging from apple's latest string of (crap) ipods, cosmetic design doesn't seem to be on their list of priorities, and with all the above in mind, and the oodles of cash they're taking of the ipod market, prices most likely will drop. By 2007, you could well take a mac and pc, and you may struggle to tell the difference.

Hell, they've even scrapped the lil "G#" on the name of each product.

<EDIT: After reading this thread, I would like to also raise the question of the defenition of "mac" - it's certainly not the same thing as it was two years ago>[/i]

 

I heard apple plans to to have a Windows VM in later versions. At very least, WINE should work nicely now under X11 on OSX. Or rather, as nicely as it does under Linux (not very).