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Apex Utility AI

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by Apex Game Tools, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. erichkr

    erichkr

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    Hi Jakob,
    How is the progress on the Procedural Animations Tools?
    Is there any news about the project?
     
  2. Jakob-Rasmussen

    Jakob-Rasmussen

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    The Utility AI supports all platforms.
    Hi Kumar,

    The will be two versions, one that uses the Unity NavMesh. This will support utility AI based formations. The other version will use Apex Path and Apex Steer, and there you will have the awesome Apex formations of course.

    Best Regards,

    Jakob
     
  3. Jakob-Rasmussen

    Jakob-Rasmussen

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    Hi Eric,

    We are still working on it. There are a lot of use cases we want to solve, and thus we need a proper framework that is also high performing of course.

    I will keep you updated.

    Best Regards,

    Jakob
     
    jabevan likes this.
  4. 3d_Artist1987

    3d_Artist1987

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    Hi,

    Any update on playmkaer version?
     
  5. kumar123k

    kumar123k

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    i have a question on formations how do we control unit formations in apex steer say i want units to make certain behaviors like one one unit will move slow and another will be fast and i want to make behaviors for the movement and turning and obstacle avoidance.
    i want total freedom of making custom patterns for the steer behavior can i do all the above ?
     
  6. Sloane

    Sloane

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    Aug 7, 2014
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    Hey,

    any news on the demos? I've been playing around with Utility AI today a bit and it looks fantastic but, phew, compared to other assets the documentation sadly seems pretty lackluster. I'm especially curious about the Sims-like demo and how it handles more complex and long term goals compared to the second-to-second decisions made in the Survival demo.
     
  7. giraffe1

    giraffe1

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    Would be nice to see more examples. Especially on how to use visual curves. Maybe even using the survival shooter example as the base?
     
  8. silentneedle

    silentneedle

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    Hello Jakob,

    we're working on a game which requires a very low memory usage. At the moment we use Unity's Navmesh, as other solutions (grid/point graph) require too much memory.

    So my question is what Apex Utility AI requires as pathfinding solution? Does it require Apex Path?

    edit: My bad, you've answered this question some posts above.

    p.s. What is the difference between the personal and pro version?
     
  9. Cartoon-Mania

    Cartoon-Mania

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    when are you going to announce roadmap

    I am very interested in dynamic dialogue and mission
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
  10. Jakob-Rasmussen

    Jakob-Rasmussen

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    Hi Kumar,

    The short answer is yes - what is describe is possible with Apex Steer. There are several formations out of the box, and you can extend Apex Steer with your own formations and behaviors. In addition, you can combine formations and behaviors. If you are looking adding intelligence to the formations, similar to e.g squads, where individual unit can break out of formation to solve specific tasks, you might also want to look at our Apex Utility AI in addition to Apex Steer.

    Best Regards,

    Jakob
     
  11. Jakob-Rasmussen

    Jakob-Rasmussen

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    Yes, we currently have three demos in process at the same time. The first one - and RTS - turned out to be massive, as we included many use cases for other genres as well. So we are currently refactoring this and making it available in Apex quality.

    Hope to ship it soon for download on the asset store.

    Best Regards,

    Jakob
     
  12. Jakob-Rasmussen

    Jakob-Rasmussen

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    Hi - the second demo will be visual curves. It is a small simulator - SIMS style. Actually a small space station with colonists that are self-managing. We plan to ship it after the RTS has been refactored and shipped.

    Best Regards,

    Jakob
     
  13. Jakob-Rasmussen

    Jakob-Rasmussen

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    Hi,

    As you mentioned, you can use any pathfinding solution you would want. Unity NavMesh is great for complex geometry, Apex Path is the solution if you need dynamic updates to the game world / level geometry, source-code access, and e.g. more control over memory usage such as procedural generation of the game world.

    Currently the personal version is a discounted version for indies making less than USD 100,000 in revenue. The pro version is subscription-based, so it includes future major updates. Both are seat licenses.

    Best Regards,

    Jakob
     
  14. giraffe1

    giraffe1

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    Really looking forward to these new examples. can't wait to get my hands on em. It it ridiculous how much I learned from dissecting the survival shooter example.
     
  15. Jakob-Rasmussen

    Jakob-Rasmussen

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    Hi Giraffe1,

    Very glad to hear that. That was the exact intention :)

    Best Regards,

    Jakob
     
  16. Cartoon-Mania

    Cartoon-Mania

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    RTS demo 2D or 3D?
     
  17. Cartoon-Mania

    Cartoon-Mania

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    WOW.. I have read RTS Demo Introduction
    that's great

    please provide playable web demo

    Asset Store have a long examination period.

    I want to play an RTS demo as soon as possible
     
  18. giraffe1

    giraffe1

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    Where did you hear that they submitted it to the asset store?

     
  19. Cartoon-Mania

    Cartoon-Mania

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  20. giraffe1

    giraffe1

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  21. witcher101

    witcher101

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    Hi
    Guys how does this work. If i buy this for 65 do i get to keep this forever or do i need to pay monthly to use this.
    Also is this easy to use compared to something like behaviour designer or RAIN AI
     
  22. silentneedle

    silentneedle

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    @Jakob-Rasmussen When watching the apex utility ai videos I noticed that the ai files you create are placed inside a Resources folder.

    Is there any option to load the AI files through asset bundles? I'm asking because I don't want to expose any AI logic in the client build, that information should only be available for server builds.

    Also, is there any reason why in the most examples OverlapSphere() is used instead of triggers?
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  23. Maverick

    Maverick

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    Dec 18, 2009
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    Hi.

    I've noticed this on asset store description:
    What it really means? We cannot use it for standalone projects?

    Thanks
     
    Arganth likes this.
  24. silentneedle

    silentneedle

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    I'm a little worried about the slow dev response in this thread. Could someone share experience with the support of the apex suite? I planned to use apex utility ai, but this would be a deal breaker for me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
  25. Cartoon-Mania

    Cartoon-Mania

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    This is a strange one. It seems they made a decent product. There are many promise..

    but Developers are not getting a promotion. No playable demo web. Also not getting answers to questions.

    Maybe they have been disappointed in sales.

    but they had no effort to sell.
     
  26. Arganth

    Arganth

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    WTF did not see that....
    but i cant believe thats true considering its working in unity...

    thx for bringing that up
     
  27. Arganth

    Arganth

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  28. Inspeinre

    Inspeinre

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    RTS Demo released in AssetStore! Thank you, Jacob )
     
  29. Elzean

    Elzean

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    I am interested in this asset but the store page says it doesn't work on Windows 8 and 10 ? Does that mean I can't dev with those OS or that once the game is exported this asset would not work on those OS ?
    This is not mention here or on your website, seems like a pretty big deal :/
     
  30. Rami_Ahmed

    Rami_Ahmed

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    Hi guys,

    @Maverick @Arganth @Elzean The Apex Utility AI of course works in the Unity Editor on both Windows, Mac and Linux. @Arganth is correct in that it only does not support Universal Windows 8, 10 or Xbox as build targets.

    @silentneedle We actually provide support within 24 hours in almost all cases - as long as you contact us through email (support{at}apexgametools{dot}com) or our own forums at http://apexgametools.com/forums/.

    We have not tested loading AIs with asset bundles, but I don't think it is supported currently, however I am unsure and will need to get back to you on that at some point. However, the AI assets themselves will be built into binary files by Unity as far as I'm aware, so there should be no major risk of exposing AI logic to consumers.

    Triggers could have been used in our examples instead of OverlapSphere, however we thought it would simplify the code to use OverlapSphere. Additionally, in some cases the performance of OverlapSphere can actually outshine the use of colliders with triggers, especially with the OverlapSphereNonAlloc method.

    @witcher101 The personal edition at 65 USD is for indie studioes making less than 100,000 USD per year in revenue, as @Jakob-Rasmussen has outlined previously. You will keep it perpetually, however you are not entitled to future major updates. For that you will need the pro subscription.

    We think the Apex Utility AI is extremely powerful and easy to use. However, I cannot provide a comparison with "Rain AI" or "Behaviour Designer" as I have not personally used these assets. Perhaps someone else could chime in with their experiences in this regard?

    @Cartoon-Mania The RTS demo is made in 3D and is now publically available on the Unity Asset Store for free. You should be able to build it yourself for most target platforms if you need e.g. a WebPlayer build (which by the way is deprecated by Unity).
     
  31. Rami_Ahmed

    Rami_Ahmed

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    @silentneedle Unfortunately AI assets cannot be asset bundled currently. However, as I mentioned in my last post, the AI assets are built into binaries and thus are not easily exposable to the end-consumers.

    I have however logged the task to support asset bundles in our backlog, although I cannot say when or if it will be implemented.
     
  32. silentneedle

    silentneedle

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    @Rami_Ahmed Unfortunately .NET is easily reversible. Exposing the AI information would allow bot developers to create very effective combat routines. Thanks for adding it to your backlog.
     
  33. TommiH

    TommiH

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    Jan 14, 2008
    Posts:
    250
    Hello,

    This looks very promising but am I missing something? This tutorial seems to be unfinished: http://apexgametools.com/learn/apex-utility-ai-documentation/apex-utility-ai-unity-survival-shooter/

    The last sentence starts with "as we will further elaborate on in the following" but there seems to be nothing following it. And you've only so far explained the basics, the scanning, and the tactical movement, not picking up powerups, shooting etc.

    Edit: Also, a question:

    I'd like to have the following logic for an AI: It'll first evaluate all the enemies to see if they're dangerous/hittable enough to shoot at. Then it'll evaluate different power-ups to go after. And only then will it choose whether it'll shoot or go after a power-up, based on the best score on each category.

    But it seems with Apex, it'll have to choose the action first and only then can it use the OptionScorers to evaluate the options. I'm sure I could find some way around it but any nice way to do this?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
  34. Rami_Ahmed

    Rami_Ahmed

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    @silentneedle I haven't tried myself so I don't know for sure, but the AI assets themselves are deserialized using JSON and, I expect, stored in the 'sharedassets.assets' (or one of the similar .assets) file that Unity automatically generates. I don't think they should be as easy to decompile as normal .NET code. But, as mentioned, haven't tested it out myself.

    @TommiH You are right! The tutorial does seem unfinished. I apologize for this issue, which we will address as soon as possible.

    In regards to solving the need for evaluating units before evaluating power-ups (both as option lists), there are a couple of ways of solving this relatively easily.

    My first and simplest suggested solution is to store whatever "mid" calculations that you need. E.g. you store a 'target unit' in the Context object through an ActionWithOptions (it can be a Composite Action and connect directly to the next Selector). Then, the second ActionWithOptions can simply "apply" the evaluation on the already chosen 'target unit'.

    The slightly more cumbersome approach is to write your own type of ActionWithOptions, which has 2 lists of IOptionScorers and then performs two 'GetBest' evaluations in quick succession.

    By experience, the latter approach generally becomes less manageable and harder to understand, comparing to storing the needed references in the Context and basically executing one action at a time.
     
  35. ChillX

    ChillX

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    Jun 16, 2016
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    So I buy this on the Utility Store. But Where the hell is the license key ? How on earth am I supposed to get the license key to activate the damn thing ?
     
  36. Rami_Ahmed

    Rami_Ahmed

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  37. Cartoon-Mania

    Cartoon-Mania

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    @Rami_Ahmed There are any news about sims like demo?
     
  38. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    And the versu one?
     
  39. Rami_Ahmed

    Rami_Ahmed

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    @Cartoon-Mania there is no news about the "Sims-like" demo currently, as we are engaged in other projects at the moment. If you absolutely need that demo please send us an email and we can discuss how to move forward.

    @neoshaman I'm sorry I'm not sure to what you are referring? Are you talking about https://versu.com/? If so, the answer is the same as above - no news currently, but please contact us if you are in dire need and we can figure out how to help you.
     
  40. Sulla__2014

    Sulla__2014

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    Hello Jakob,
    Could you advise on which Apex packages we would need for a fantasy RPG with the following gameplay:
    there is one playable character who encounters various enemies. The enemies come as a single NPC, or a group of three or five NPCs. The enemies should patrol or wander or idle until they "see" the Player, when they either confront or attack the Player. Thus the enemies need to dynamically face the Player and avoid each other.
    Is Apex Path and Steer needed for this?
    Also, is it possible to trigger a Mecanim animation wherever required (as can be done in RAIN AI)?
    Thank you.
     
  41. Geminior

    Geminior

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    Feb 12, 2014
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    Apex Path provides the foundation for all steering and of course includes the path finder. While Apex Path does include basic avoidance, it is very basic. You can however build your own steering using the foundation, we have videos on how to do that on our youtube channel.

    Apex Steer adds a number of steering components to Apex Path, including vector field based steering for group movement and unit avoidance to name a few.

    So the answer is that you will need Apex Path. Whether you need Apex Steer depends on to what degree you want to implement your own stuff. Unit avoidance isn't a super trivial problem to solve so I would recommend getting Apex Steer for that if for nothing else.

    With regards to Mecanim you can control which animations are shown in response to velocity changes. We have a demo of that on the store.

    For other types of triggers you will want to use the actual AI, e.g. Apex Utility AI
     
  42. eridani

    eridani

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    Hello is a playable web demo available yet? I see some sort of demos in the asset store but it seems they require the purchase of Utility AI first.
     
  43. Rami_Ahmed

    Rami_Ahmed

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    Hi @eridani - there is no playable web demo available as of yet. Perhaps you could specify a bit more exactly what you would like to see in such a demo?

    Although not web demos, we now have the RTS Demo, and two versions of Unity's Survival Shooter, with and without Apex Path. Additionally, our "Getting Started" demos are being vetted by Unity as we speak. Thus we hope that by providing these free demo projects it will become even easier to get started with the Apex Utility AI.
     
  44. eridani

    eridani

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    Hello Rami, thanks for the quick reply.

    Basically I would like to play a demo which shows how well Utility AI works in a real life game scenario, before I decide whether or not I want to buy it. I haven't purchased an AI asset on the store without trying a playable demo first.

    I would like to see how Utility AI stacks up against the other AI assets in the store (the ones which have playable demos, which is most of them). A simple FPS playable web demo would do. I don't know why you guys keep asking "exactly" what I want to see in a demo... just look at the other AI assets and you will see something playable that shows off how the AI reacts in common game situations. That's all I need to make a purchase decision.

    The demos you have currently provided require the purchase of Utility AI first, so they are not really demos but more like "getting started" tutorials for current owners. Prospective buyers who don't own the product still don't know how the AI reacts and responds when given live player input.

    "As of yet" meaning it is still coming, or it is most likely not coming? I thought a playable web demo was absolutely promised back in April. But it almost seems you are reluctant to let people "test drive" your AI before buying it.

    Anyway, no worries if a playable web demo is not coming. You guys seem like smart outfit and it seems like your product could be really good. I just don't buy AI products without seeing for myself how it works, that's all. Hope this was clear and thanks for reading!
     
  45. Cartoon-Mania

    Cartoon-Mania

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    when This tool is released.. Many people expected. this is best tool for sims like game

    actually , you planned demo sims like About 6 months ago.
    however, The Sims, demo were abandoned

    So I feel like this.
    This isn't suitable for games such as The Sims.
    because They canceled plans to make demo like The Sims.

    If AI professional developers can not make demo It is impossible for people like us.
     
    neoshaman likes this.
  46. Geminior

    Geminior

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    @eridani
    A playable demo does not clearly show the power of an AI.
    You can observe an AI performing actions but you cannot see how, which in our opinion makes it rather useless.
    We instead offer demos that actually show how to accomplish a number of AI tasks. These demos work just fine with the free trial, so there is currently no requirement that you purchase it first.

    We also have a fair number of videos showing how the AI tool works.

    @Cartoon-Mania
    Understanding of the concept of the utility AI, is what you need to create interesting AI using Apex Utility AI.
    That understanding you can get from looking at the Demos already released.
    There is nothing special that you need to know to use Apex Utility AI for a Sims game.

    The Utility AI is simply the next step up on the AI ladder, so obviously it can be used for any type of game.

    If what you are after is guidelines to how a Sims type AI is done conceptually, then feel free to contact us as we do offer contract work as well.
     
  47. Cartoon-Mania

    Cartoon-Mania

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    You said you would make the Sims like demo six months ago.
    But you broke the promise.

    What does this mean?

    If you can not do that, We can not do that

    If this product can make AI like Sims You have to prove yourself.

    Do not speak. Just show us Demo
     
  48. Geminior

    Geminior

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    @Cartoon-Mania
    It is not a question of whether we can do it, it is a question of whether we prioritize doing it. And we don't.
    I have already explained the main reason why in my previous post.
    So to close this once and for all, there will be no Sims Demo in the foreseeable future and most likely there won't be one at all.
     
  49. eridani

    eridani

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    Ah, I did not know that. I will give the free trial a spin when I get some time. Thanks again
     
  50. Inspeinre

    Inspeinre

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    Jun 15, 2013
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    I read the posts... probably I refrain from buying.