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Anybody else experiencing a very unstable editor when using .Net 4.6?

Discussion in 'Experimental Scripting Previews' started by Xarbrough, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. Xarbrough

    Xarbrough

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    I'd like to share my experience so far with the experimental .Net feature. I like the upgrade and most things seem to work fine, when they work (debugging, building for platforms etc), but overall, the Unity Editor crashes every 20 minutes.

    We are using the new version in our team at university on slightly different machines and at home, but we all get an unusual amount of crashes, compared to previous Unity versions, ever since we switched our project to .Net 4.6.

    Sadly, we could not reproduce any of the crashes, as it seems totally random, when they happen: Starting debugging, pressing play, attaching during playmode, starting Unity, adding an object to the scene, undo, basically there's no pattern.

    Not sure how to help identify the issue, since I know that bug cases without reproducible issues are closed pretty soon, so I wanted to ask if anybody else is having the same trouble and had a chance to report anything useful.
     
  2. joncham

    joncham

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    What version are you using? We are fixing crashes as they are reported, so please try patch releases as multiple fixes have already gone on. Keep checking the release notes for new fixes.
     
  3. Xarbrough

    Xarbrough

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    We're on 2017.1.0f3. I'll make some more tests at home and maybe send a crash log via the bug reporter.
     
  4. superpig

    superpig

    Quis aedificabit ipsos aedificatores? Unity Technologies

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    Note that when it comes to crash bugs, we do have crash analysis and statistical tracking in place. Naturally it's better if you can include reproduction steps, but even if you can't, it's always worth sending us a report, as it'll feed into the analysis system and can still give us some insight into the problem.
     
    AmbroiseRabier likes this.
  5. Dave-Carlile

    Dave-Carlile

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    I've had similar experiences, particularly when running the project. Using the Visual Studio debugger also seems very unstable and seems to lead to crashes, or I have to attach to Unity multiple times. I've reported a couple of crashes, but I got an email saying I reported the same thing twice and one was closed. They were separate instances though, so not sure what's going on there.

    Everything stabilized when I moved back to the old .NET.
     
  6. 2dgame

    2dgame

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    Similar here. I haven't been able to debug on any Unity build using .NET 4.6. I use Visual Studio Code to attach to Unity. Once i press play Unity becomes unresponsive and I have to force quit it.
     
    Dave-Carlile likes this.
  7. strich

    strich

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    @superpig unfortunately your QA team don't seem to be aware of this or they're being over-eager - We've been running on 2017.x edge builds for months now with .NET 4.6. We get crashes a lot. Its okay - Its a beta. However it really grinds down our motivation to support you with crash reports without a project or repro steps when your QA write back asking for more info or requesting to close the ticket.

    It also really feels like a blackhole as we get zero feedback on .NET 4.6 specific fixes - If you guys are doing lots of fixes they certainly don't pop up in the diff'd patch notes.

    We haven't bothered sending in the hourly crash reports for a few weeks now.
     
    Dave-Carlile likes this.
  8. aybeone

    aybeone

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    Here I have a rather extremely annoying issue that doesn't produce crashes:

    Unity does not pick up changes in CS files, or it does it whenever it wants, resulting in 'breakpoint will not be currently hit' in VS. I systematically have to 'Reimport' the CS file for it to pick the current version, extremely annoying you'd agree.

    I'd gladly submit a bug but it'll certainly end like : we need a crash dump and a sample project, which for the first I don't have, and for the second just doesn't make sense as it happens on pretty much any project, i.e. it'll end like 'closed as non-reproducible'.

    Being nostalgic of my early days with Unity where all was shiny, today I have to cope with the dark side of Unity every day, i.e. the fractal of bugs in the editor. Still wondering how such regression can silently slip in a supposedly out-of-beta release ?
     
  9. JJJohan

    JJJohan

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    You're not alone. It's annoying, however unfortunately I haven't been able to reproduce it consistently. Is there any chance you have more than one instance of Visual Studio and/or Unity running? Trying to see if we can get a common factor here. I can't recall 100% if it happens only when there's 2 instances but it'd be worth ruling that out.

    Unity 2017.1.0p2 (sometimes 2 separate projects)
    Visual Studio 2017 (again sometimes 2 instances)

    Regarding actual crashes - for me these seem to appear mostly when Visual Studio is attached, it's not too bad otherwise.
     
  10. ProtonOne

    ProtonOne

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    I've been getting crashes when entering Play mode every 5-10 times approx. This has been happening since I started using 2017.1.0f3, but I also started using .Net 4.6 at the same time.

    The error.log file says a few things:

    mono-2.0-bdwgc.dll caused an Access Violation (0xc0000005)
    in module mono-2.0-bdwgc.dll at 0033:c8675bb6.

    Read from location 000000e9 caused an access violation.

    I submitted the log & dmp file with a bug report (not the game project though). Just waiting on the bug number and I'll post it here. Edit: Case 938731
     
  11. aybeone

    aybeone

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    Sometimes, but it does happen even when there's only an instance running. I have the same environment + Win10 + Resharper.

    One of the thing I'm suspecting is that Unity is just like Windows, for which there's an urban legend that says 'always do a clean install'. I'm saying this because as far as I can remember these issues surfaced when I started testing other Unity builds in parallel, since then these issues never vanished. I've uninstalled everything, cleaned up registry keys, re-installed VS and also went VS2017 but that never fixed anything.

    The main thing in my environment is that it's been installed a while ago (first Win10 version), upgraded all the way, i.e. seems like the Windows soup got confused over time, but I simply don't have the time to start fresh (might have to give a try).
     
  12. aybeone

    aybeone

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    You made a point there, actually I've forgot pasting these exception codes here, they're just like yours : access denied.

    Unfortunately I don't have these dumps anymore and ironically I've tried to make the thing crash but it didn't ... Of the few dumps I've found in my drive, surprisingly they're all 0xC0000409 (unknown software exception !), even more puzzling when you search online : no official KB or whatever, only crap sites like 'fixmypc.com'.
     
  13. aybeone

    aybeone

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    Forgot to add, my last contact in a bug report, I got the following answer:

    Thank you for the crash dump. I do believe the issue might be related to your computer. It seems that people experience similar 0xC0000005 access denied errors after Windows updates. However, there are various other reasons. You could look into this article: http://www.eassos.com/how-to/fix-error-code-0xc0000005.php

    It seems to provide a lot of useful information on how to fix this issue.

    That link suggests there might be a memory issue, in the past I've ran a Memtest86 for hours and it didn't found anything, which leaves the other option : a corrupted installation (the other suggested fixes in the link being simply silly or inappropriate IMO).
     
  14. ProtonOne

    ProtonOne

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    I got a reply on that case:
    ListPool.cs is a file from a 3rd party pathfinding library from the asset store:
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/87744

    And that specific part (Line 176) is within a 'lock' as it is doing pooling of paths that are used across multiple threads.

    I thought I was only 1 revision behind on that asset, but the developer has a 4.1 Beta that has "improved compatibility with Unity 2017.1"

    The release notes have a point:
    • Improved compatibility with Unity 2017.1, esp. when using the experimental .Net 4.6 target. Thanks Scott_Richmond for reporting the issues.
    So in my case, I can probably update to the latest version and be more stable (just gotta find the time to dedicate to that).

    I'm really happy with the stability of 2017.1.0f3 (compared to the betas), the daily crashing has only been a minor annoyance (restarting Unity is pretty quick).

    I'll probably jump back into testing betas when the new garbage collector needs testing :D
     
  15. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    This is an annoying issue, and is certainly a bug. I can say that for many projects, I've not experienced it, and I've not heard about it from anyone internally. But these issues with breakpoints not loading are often very sensitive to the specific source code in the project, as it may be related to the way the C# compiler generates the .mdb files.

    So if it is possible to provide a sample project that reproduces the problem in this case, it would be very helpful.

    Also, is this happening with the new scripting runtime only? Or does it happen with the old scripting runtime as well?
     
  16. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    Thanks for submitting this, we will investigate.
     
  17. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    I know that it can be frustrating to submit a bug report for an intermittent crash, and get back a response from our QA team that they cannot do anything about it. That is not entirely correct. While we may have trouble fixing the specific bug, we do track and bucket all crash reports to help debug on a larger scale. Each crash report we get is valuable, because it helps us isolate the causes of these difficult-to-reproduce problems.

    We've also been talking with our QA team about providing more accurate responses when they respond to bug reports like this. So don't be discouraged, please send in bug reports for random crashes! The really do help.

    I'd recommend moving to 2017.1p3 (and continuing to keep up with patch releases as much as possible) for anyone using the new scripting runtime. We're fixing a number of bugs (including some for random-ish crashes), but we did not start to get a significant number of these reports until 2017.1 was released and the usage numbers when up. Our fixes lag a week or two behind as they work their way through our release process.

    In the end though, I really want to thank everyone for trying the new scripting runtime. I know that your time is valuable, and dealing with random errors is not fun. We can only do so much testing internally, and we cannot replicate the industrial-strength work you are doing on a day-to-day basis. So the information you provide is invaluable to get us to the point where the new scripting runtime will be supported and default.
     
    Dave-Carlile likes this.
  18. rahuxx

    rahuxx

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    I am not sure I have something with unity or not but I have unity 2017.1f3 and whenever I use it my system gets crash and I only need to restart it. Today I formatted my system just to verify the issue.
    Hope its my system side and not unity side.
     
  19. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    @rahuxx

    Are you using the new scripting runtime when this happens?
     
  20. makeshiftwings

    makeshiftwings

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    I'm using 2017.1.p2 in 4.6 mode and it crashes constantly. It's incredibly annoying. I've also experienced the thing where it does not detect changes in the .cs files and I have to manually reimport to get it to recompile. Often when it crashes, it does not pop up the crash reporter and there's no crash dump, which means submitting a bug is pointless.

    On a related note, I want to voice my disapproval with tagging everything in every new release version as "Experimental" to get out of needing to officially support it. Especially now that Unity is subscription-only. The promise of Unity 2017 was that the forced subscription would somehow mean more stability and better release quality, but 2017.1 is pretty questionable, with most of it being experimental and unsupported, and half of the advertised features not even available in the installer and requiring a trip to github to actually install. You shouldn't even bother "releasing" a feature if it's going to be unsupported and experimental. Keep it in beta.
     
  21. Dave-Carlile

    Dave-Carlile

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    I think the purpose of this is to give it a wider audience so more bugs are identified. Many people (like myself) don't download beta versions and having a released version, even if experimental, are the first time they start checking out these new features.
     
  22. makeshiftwings

    makeshiftwings

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    That's not what release versions are for. They're not for trying to trick people who don't want to beta test into beta testing. If they need more beta testers, they should offer more incentives to sign up. Or, here's a radical idea, they should hire more actual testers. Release versions are supposed to be stable and officially supported, that's why they're called release versions.
     
    m4d likes this.
  23. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    We have another round of fixes landing in 2017.1.0p3 and more coming for 2017.1.1p1, so please keep moving with the patch releases if possible (I understand this can be painful sometimes though).

    I can't speak about other features, but for the Mono runtime upgrade, using the "experimental" tag isn't really about not supporting the feature. We're fixing bugs adding features for the new runtime as fast as we can, so we are supporting it. In this case "experimental" is about getting it into a released version of the product get more feedback.

    For example, we shipped a number of special builds of Unity 5.6 with the new Mono runtime on this forum. The users here are great, and submitted a number of bug reports (maybe 25 - 30 that were corrected). But we simply didn't get enough use from this approach (most users don't follow the experimental scripting forum section). Since we shipped 2017.1 with the new Mono runtime as an option for everyone (via "experimental"), we have maybe four times the number of actionable bug reports. Some of those have been resolved, but we are still working through them.

    So it is tough for us to ship something like a major change to the Mono runtime (which impacts everything in Unity) without breaking anything, as we need the user feedback. Hence, we're using the "experimental" tag to indicate "this isn't quite ready yet, but use it if you can". Ideally, we don't want to ship it until it is rock solid, but in this case we need to feedback to get there.

    So please bear with us. I know it can be painful, and I understand if you want to abandon the new Mono runtime and go back to the supported one until the new one is stable. But we do use all of the feedback we get, here and via bug reports.
     
    dadude123 likes this.
  24. makeshiftwings

    makeshiftwings

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    I think you posted at the same time I posted that last post. I understand why you did it, but like I said, I don't think "Release" versions should be used to trick people into testing something that doesn't work. Part of the draw for users to join a beta is supposed to be that if they find bugs, they can get them fixed when the actual release happens. When you announce that you're going to keep pushing broken features into Release to do the "actual beta testing", it actually discourages people from bothering to use betas. Why bother helping with a beta when you know the "real" beta will be the current Release version?
     
  25. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    @makeshiftwings

    Yeah, I think we posted at the same time. :)

    I apologize if this came of as an attempt to trick anyone. That is absolutely not our intention. Our goal with the "experimental" tag was to ensure that users know what to expect of the new Mono runtime - namely that it is not production quality yet, so as not to trick anyone into using it without knowing the implications.

    At least in the case of the new Mono runtime, we were not knowingly pushing broken features into the release. We spent a good deal of time on internal testing, and we resolved all of the bug reports we had from special builds. So we made the decision to push it into the release.

    We did know about some lacking features, namely support for some platforms and proper .NET profile support. But outside of that, it looked stable enough for more general consumption. Of there are always "unknown unknowns", which we are now discovering, thanks to the feedback.

    In any case, we did not intend to mislead anyone, and I'm sincerely sorry if we did. We'll try to do better in the future.
     
  26. makeshiftwings

    makeshiftwings

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    "Trick" may have been too strong a word. I'm just saying I'd prefer it if Experimental features were kept separate from Release builds. But really, I'm just perpetually grumpy, and sometimes when the editor keeps crashing on me I have to go complain on the forum to keep my sanity, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. ;)
     
  27. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    Fair enough - unstable and crashing software makes me grumpy as well. :)
     
  28. aybeone

    aybeone

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    Ironically, I've tried to reproduce it on a new project but failed ... so seems like it happens on a specific project, whenever it occurs again i'll file a bug report and attach it.

    Also, it happened using the new runtime, not sure about the old one (there's so many benefits using the new one that I've stopped using the old one).
     
  29. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    Thanks, please let me know when you submit a bug report or if you gather any additional details!
     
  30. Shizola

    Shizola

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    Crashing for me on 2017.1.1p1
     
  31. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    @Shizola

    Unfortunately, most of our crash fixes were delaying until 2017.1.1p2. Please try that release when it is ready (it should be later this week).
     
    Shizola likes this.
  32. LaireonGames

    LaireonGames

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    I am still seeing a ton of crashes and mainly freezes even on 2017.3.0b2 which is killing my productivity. Sent in reports and got a reply in a couple days saying they could intermittently repo but now no word on if anything is being done about it more than a week later :/ Case 950310 if anyone is interested.

    I've tried the majority of the patch releases as well so I jumped to 3.0 beta out of desperation. Now I have jumped back to 2.0 which is just as bad.

    P.S I am not even using the .net 4.6. This is with the stable 3.5!
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  33. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    I've asked our QA team for more details about these intermittent crashes. Hopefully we can get a call stack or two and track down the cause of the issue.
     
    LaireonGames likes this.
  34. LaireonGames

    LaireonGames

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    Thanks for that Josh! Let me know if there is anything I can provide :)
     
  35. rob8861

    rob8861

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    I am also experiencing intermittent crashes when I enter play mode in the editor. This issue started when I changed the mono runtime to .NET 4.6 , which I now regret dearly.
    I filed two bug reports, but haven't heard back from Unity support personnel so I posted the crash log on the forum (https://forum.unity.com/threads/uni...the-game-from-the-editor.504418/#post-3286793), hoping to find some answers. Lo and behold, other people are having the same issue.
    I hope this can be addressed in 2017.3 or whenever Unity decides to make .NET 4.6 stable. Until then, I am falling back to the stable runtime.
     
  36. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    Can you let me know the bug report numbers? I'd like to follow up on them.
     
    CriDos likes this.
  37. CriDos

    CriDos

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  38. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    Thanks for the bug report. Our team has this bug now, we will investigate it.
     
  39. rob8861

    rob8861

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    First bug I filed - #967206
    Second bug I filed - #968359

    both are for the same issue and I have attached the complete Editor log with the crash report and the stack trace.
     
    CriDos and GilCat like this.
  40. JoshPeterson

    JoshPeterson

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    Thanks, I've pushed these to our QA team to investigate.
     
    GilCat likes this.
  41. snacktime

    snacktime

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    I just opened a ticket from a thread I started in the beta forum. I'm getting frequent crashes all stemming from dll not found. In my case it's a UI heavy scene so there is one path that usually triggers it, but the code paths do vary (the most frequent one is in the bug report). Definitely smells like an dll reload ordering issue of some kind.


    Case number is 979570.
     
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  42. GilCat

    GilCat

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    This problem seems to happen more frequently on Windows Editor than in OSX and it is quite annoying :(
     
  43. orb

    orb

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    The first thing I do after opening a new project is to change the .NET runtime (and recently I've even actually used features unavailable in the older one). I haven't noticed any instability on macOS, and I keep the editor going for hours once I get started.

    Those who can test all operating systems definitely should try working on their projects on different platforms for a while.
     
  44. joncham

    joncham

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    I am hoping this is fixed by the same changes that fixed 967206. It should be in all patch releases soon, check release notes.
     
  45. snacktime

    snacktime

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    So I found a workaround for at least one variant of this. Given how it works I'm kind of disappointed that Unity isn't sharing workarounds when they know it might work, and they also know that this bug can hit people really hard just by the nature of it. Literally I was getting like 30 or so crashes per day. Now I get maybe one a day.

    The work around is to look in the editor log and look at what isn't loaded. Now find a spot early in your scene load before where it's crashing, and just write some code that uses the code that failed. In my case it was failing at one spot, where it was trying to do a push onto a generic Stack. So the first thing I did in awake was create a stack and push something onto it.

    This approach should work for most any dll not found error that's a result of Unity not actually loading it in time. Because once loaded that's it, it's done (unless they have completely hacked how assembly loading and app domains work).
     
  46. joncham

    joncham

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    The most common random crash we are seeing is due to a memory corruption internal to mono when entering play mode. There is no workaround for this, but has been fixed and is making it's way to released versions.
     
  47. snacktime

    snacktime

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    Mine are not random though, way to consistent in where they fail and when. Literally 1 out of 4 times or so when I start the scene, and was always the same stack trace. Now I still get some random crashes here and there but not that one that was consistently failing at the same spot.
     
  48. snacktime

    snacktime

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    wouldn't memory corruption result in an access violation anyways most likely? I don't see how that could cause a dll not found error.

    Edit: Well I take that back ya it could if it failed while loading it.
     
  49. joncham

    joncham

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    Do you have a reproducible case that we can look into?
     
  50. snacktime

    snacktime

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    The repro scene is from a very large project. If it doesn't get fixed in 979570 I'll try to create a minimal repro case. The scene that constistently crashes is a heavy ui scene and the stack trace always originates from a very specific call, so I'm assuming creating a canvas with a bunch of the the correct ui elements would trigger it.

    It could be same problem, just that my scene in question does a lot of whatever triggers that crash.

    And on second look it does kind of look like it might be that same issue, because even the other less frequent stack traces are all ending in trying to add something to a mono collection of some type.
     
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