Any unity games made by one person?

@BIGTIMEMASTER would you be interested in taking full ownership of the product?
@frosted how much would you want for your share?

 

Well at least you too got a game out, that's quite an achievement, since 95% of game never see light of the day.

I used to maintain a thread on another forum that breaks down team dymanic in big AAA games, based on post mortem. It's ALWAYS a struggle. What you have as a dispute is so common too.

The lesson I learned is that good team can work despite disagreement and get S*** done, you got S*** done, that's actually impressive. Of course best team everybody agree, but that has generally led to bland product. Recurring success (as small team) seems mostly to happen to team where each member have a domain where they have the ownership. Vlambeer is such a team, they don't go that well together, but their dynamics produce success because they let the other have ownership of specific aspects.

I refuse collab in general, because I'm not in a situation were I'm reliable enough. So i just do jam for the moment,

Spoiler: stuff

Neither psychologically (alienating lack of social stimulation, i'm different than my surrounding culture), nor materially (I do a game jam with some french people LIKE me, they want to send me a new screen that is HD, discover it's QUITE hard to do so, despite being supposedly part of france)

 

I'm not sure, but if BTM has an offer, I'm definitely down to discuss it. I'd ask for something around 5k, which would be a starting point for negotiations (I don't think the product is worth 10k total, so I'd move down). How far down, I'm not sure, we'd have to discuss in good faith based not only on current projections, but some projection on future work (like 25% of a future release or something).

Preferentially, I'd like to at least offer to sell the thing to the publisher we were originally talking with and just splitting the proceeds (which might end up being more than 10k). If BTM is willing to talk about that, again, in good faith, I'm super down for any discussion.

 

Holy crap eastshade has come on leaps and bounds since i last checked!

 

Just to keep this somewhat useful to others, I think you guys could look at some of the issues that BTM and I have run into on this thread and keep those kinds of things in mind if anyone is considering some kind of partnership or collaboration.

These kinds of things really can go south, even if both of you enter into an agreement with the best of intentions.

If you do, communication is absolutely key, as is trust - and it's very easy for those things to break down during the course of working together, especially on a 50/50 equal basis (without a clear leader who can make final decisions).

Just consider the exchange me and BTM just had and treat that as a warning and an example of what not to do, and how something with good intentions can turn bad when dealing with collaborations.

 

Well if it is any consolation I thought your game on steam was nicely polished and intriguing and scoped well, I hope you guys can put aside your differences and either move on to continue becoming BOTH better game devs with new projects down the line. It is quite an achievement to release any kind of game on steam and you should be insanely proud of yourselves. Well done.

 

I think this is a very good point. Even if revenue share is 50% its much easier if there is a formally recognised decision maker.

 

Whatever stormy it my sounds in this thread, this definitely highly valuable discussion, on the matter of collaboration vs solo dev.

I was really happy for steam release of discussed here game, even it wasn't necessary a type of game I would sink much time into it. The quality 2,of you delivered was amazing, in comparison to most, within such game scope.

Scheme I went south. I didn't even realized was that stormy I. Terms of 2 dev relation. Hence even short argue here, is good shared experience for others. I would like say thx for sharing, even through pain.

Not sure If I should say following, just to avoid starting another holy war, so better I don't get responded here. I mean I know answer anyway. But I have seen so much potential in a game. And I think release day was unnecessarily pushed early, while during building up hype train. Many devs. should be jealous for that. If there were no rush to 'must' release, should definitely wait a bit longer. But we see here, different agendas were stronger.

What we see here and already highlighted by others, strong definite contract is must.

From perspective of gains experience, to be honest not sure how good that would look like, if after going separate ways, now trying go another contract, with even somebody else. What would be the personal goal. To get great release, or just get good experience. What other future party should think about it? Should that be also clearly defined on the contract?

I think is important, specially when at least one party hopes to make living of the product and invested time. Otherwise, this feels like path to dispute hell.

Just hypothetically, would considering going open source after unresolve disputes, but agreeing on that part, could lead to some solution?

Again, thank you for sharing.

 

I wouldn't be willing to 'open source' it - because I think people would just butcher it and re-release an 'asset flip'.

I would be open to discussion on some kinda handoff of the project if someone wanted to really build on it, with certain constraints on how it moved forward. I'd be open to discussion there, for sure.

One major condition would be that if BTM keeps his half of it (or continues to work on it), I would need to be bought out and compensated. I'm trying to find a productive end state, but I'm not entirely without my resentments.

I'd even be wililng to discuss a handoff for free (or maybe a small % of future income) as long as the above is met or something else is arranged.

 

He was in rush to release because he wanted to make a second game in another month. Thought that would be more worthwhile than supporting what we have.

I had no interest in working with him again because half way through production he stopped working and ddint inform me until the end. But during this time I was working twelve hour plus days, he had gall to hyper criticize and throw emotional fits about the work I was doing. This is after we clearly defined jurisdictions for who was in charge of what.

On more than one occasion he wanted to abandon the project for silly reasons. In beginning I did not think I would have time for unique textures per character. That made him want to quit. Then he wanted nearly fifty characters. I convincednthat we would put characters into tiers and chop off tiers if necessary.

I can keep going and going. Bottom line is, frosted is strong coder and valuable member of team if he is left free from decision making. I've tried to explain politely, but left to his own he never makes a decision and works in circles. Trouble is he extends this insecurity onto others, rather than observing obvious results in front of his face and learning from it.

Too much hubris, not enough work ethic. Simple stuff.

 

Thx for further sharing. Some valid points.

Just small thought tho.
I know these is highly related to here discussed case, and maybe tempting throw words, but maybe could I suggest for our health conversation, generalize response, rather targeting each other. If that possible?

Edit:
Just I don't won't be a reason for a open war. My apology in advance

 

No because it is very much issue of personality to blame. He should have left praise of work alone, and maybe appreciated it. But he is trying to public shame me into doing more work for him. Mods should lock it down ans he should use the ignote button and stop trying to justify himself. Anybody who is half a detective can easily put the pieces together, and that isn't going to help save face. Smarter to leave it alone and focus on his next game.

 

Yeah maybe indeed better lock it. No need for more fire.

 

It's unfortunate, but that kind of thing happen.

 

@BIGTIMEMASTER would you be interested in taking full ownership of the product and buying frosted out? You could use it as a project to test the programmer you're going to hire on, extending the solid base you have.
Or would you prefer to sell off the project to a third party so that you two both can be free from this and get some closure?

 

Honestly this is pretty ridiculous. If I defend myself I'm:

I have no interest in you doing work for me dude, I am mostly trying to deescalate. There is quite a lot of bad blood here, but I've tried to avoid disparaging you or assigning you ill motives, not because you are some kind of angel - but because I want to see the project find some kind of positive resolution.

Look at this thread for example, if you're willing to let go of the project and give it to someone else to work on, I am also. If you want to buy me out, I'm cool. If you want to discuss what's needed to finish it, let's discuss.

This isn't me trying to "shame you into doing more work" this is trying to tie up loose ends without letting emotion and personal baggage get the better of things.

At the end of the day, we have a project out there with a promise to release an update we never delivered. That isn't me trying to be sneaky and evil or toxic, thats me stating fact. I'd like to find some solution to that where can deliver that to people who bought the game with a minimum of personal irritation.

 

Final note:

If you'd like to take this to some kind of third party mediation - I'd be down if there's little to no cost.

 

I'd suggest that you both discuss this - again, in a neutral way - privately. @BIGTIMEMASTER, give it a try at least

Most of us here, myself included, don't know both of you personally. Even with the accusations from both sides, we don't know for sure what has been fully going on between you two or who's really telling the truth - and to be honest, I don't think this uphill battle should be fought here or anywhere else. It's a private matter between you two.

Fact is: there are people out there liking and playing your game. It would be a shame to let it float in limbo just because you two are such bullheads... ^^ Sooner or later, you'll need to find an amicable solution.

 

It's Frontier elite all over again, it look very much like that situation between Ian Bells and David Braben.

 

Fully came here expecting the thread to be full of self promotion posts. Plenty of us on the forum have released games on our own.

I was wrong, but I wasn't disappointed either.

 

I did hundreds of hours of work to support the game post launch already for total waste. Its waay to late to sudddnly act like there is some misunderstanding. He is beinf intentionally dishonest here. Wasted enough time on this, please dont distract me with it anymore.

Sorry, it's recurring theme with this guy. He's not interested in the game or fans, just trying to save face. Not worth the time guys

 

It wouldn't need to go to waste if you allow him to just use it in the game as is.

If that was the case, wouldn't he just use that last batch of stuff you made without your permission to make more money off the product?

Would you at least sign a short document that says "Do whatever the hell you want with it, and send me half of the resulting money." so that you can get at least some monetary compensation out of it and he can sell off or update the project?

I don't want to take sides in your dispute, but if that was the case, bringing your falling out up at all, would litterally be the dumbest move. If you have the time to accuse him of such things, you have the time to agree to selling the project so that this S***show can move on. Right now all I see you do here is blocking any and all attempts to resolve the situation in any way, and that's not the moral high road to take for sure. Believe me when I say I understand the desire to just cut losses and move on in general, but it just takes a minute to agree to let him sell it off and that should net you a couple thousand based on the offers the project has received already. I can not understand that you want to block even that resolution, out of frustration. I can relate to your frustration, but not to how you react to it. I really hope you change your mind on this.

 

Martin, there is reason I ask not to talk about this anymore. Already been through this ad nauseam. The thing only got beyond week one because I dragged this guy. And almost everyday in production I dragged him. The very notion that nonclosure has anything to do with me is insulting and so far beyond the truth you would be outraged If you understood.

As I can't talk about it without saying damaging personal things, I won't say anymore. But it is basically slander to suggest any shortcoming of this project has to do with my decisions or personality. Besides nearly tripling the hours of work to make this thing happen as my partner, I had to literally make it my mission to manage his emotional swings like a child.

Imagine putting nine months of hard work into projects with a person who continually fails you, then when.you excuse yourself from relationship they suggest publicly that you quit the project. You have to draw line somewhere.

You want to know who is for real and who is here to play pretend, all you got to do is measure results.

There is no reasonable solution you can suggest I have not already tried to make work. Again, he's not trying to make anything happen. He is trying to save face and/or attack me. IT is a pattern. There is nothing to do but ignore

 

This is getting a little absurd.

BIGTIMEMASTER: "I did hundreds of hours of work to support the game post launch already for total waste."

We made a promise to deliver a "demon campaign" where you play the evil guys. The work BTM did had nothing to do with our promised content, it was some side effort he chose to do.

• Promise: Demon Campaign
• Bigtimemaster Work: Other thing that wasn't promised

This was a repeating pattern during the project: Bigtimemaster would do a bunch of work that didn't move us toward any real goal, and then demand all kinds of credit for how hard he was working.

At some point, fed up, I ended up telling Bigtimemaster that I considered his work more or less worthless. Maybe this was an a**hole move, maybe it's insensitive, maybe it was even wrong. I think it's justified. In the real world, you don't get an "a for effort" - if the work you chose to do had nothing to do with delivering on our stated goals - its not something that should be commended. You don't get a pat on the back.

Maybe I'm an a**hole, I was definitely not very sensitive. But I do believe that my opinion is justified.

The fallout from that, and me telling BTM that I didn't want to work together anymore was pretty immediate (right after the conversation):

• He announced we would not release an update on the game forum.
• He shot down a contract negotiation we were in the middle of for $15,000
• He refused to talk about liquidating the business as per the contract.

I consider him morally liable for the loss of the $15,000 (although I don't think it's legally actionable, and it's not enough money to bother with realistically), since he told our contact to nix the contract without discussing it with me.

 

Lots of them : Dusk is the most relatively recently game i am excited about. Keep the personal drama out of it

 

Yea, gonna shut this down.
Best of luck sorting things out in way that is equitable/acceptable for all parties.