Any alone indie living of that?

Yea, plus freedom of outside rule. freedom from europe. and asia and all that. It's quite cool

 

???

Most sovereign nations in the world can claim the same thing. Asia and Europe are not inherently evil entities. In fact Asia technically does not exist as a political entity of its own. The European union is an entity, but its members are less aligned then the individual states are to the federal government in the US.

So yeah, cheese burgers are great, and definitely American. But sovereignty isn't uniquely American, not even close.

 

Okay. America is FREE from the rule of europe. meaning that EUROPE does not have ATHORITY to controll America.
Also meaning that we are free from a king, ALSO meaning that we elect presidents every 2 years, each one can only 2 terms, a total of 4 years. And we are FREE from major rule like a king would have.

 

Is there gonna be any thread around here in the near future that doesn't turn divisive? Sheesh. This seems like the perfect time to take a few days off from the forums and get some work done.

 

I agree!

 

Every 4 years with a max of two consecutive terms.

 

I just said that

 

Easy to judge but what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander. You have countries with vastly different geographies, demographics, etc. In fact you're speaking from the perspective of a New Zealander which has a population of roughly 4 and a quarter million, compared to around 320 million here in the US. Not really comparable in the least.

Secondly, the US gives billions of dollars in aid, including to New Zealand in 2011 after an earthquake. As a country we support not only our own disasters but others as well.

And I'm glad you listed everything as a freedom because Freedom != Right. You have to work for it and earn it.

 

Yes

 

Nobody's perfect, but very few are all bad either.

 

Do some research before you go to much further. We have the queen as head of state, but her powers are limited to essentially nothing. We are governed by a body of elected representatives. We have a prime minister instead of a president, but the end result is similar. The key differences is in the level of involvement of our government in taking care of its people.

Totally true. You most definitely need different government systems as population and demographics change. But I'm not entirely convinced the underlying philosophy differences in our governments is entirely due to these factors.

What goes around comes around. We send out aid to other countries. US aid in absolute terms is high, as a percentage of GDP its relatively low. Either way I'm not sure how this is relevant.

I used the word freedom primarily because I was describing the American system. This is the key difference between out government philosophies. We believe in a right to healthcare, education and safety for everyone. Independent of what a person has 'worked for and earned'.

Totally true. Our system does have issues with the welfare dependency culture.

Anyway, I should probably jump off this thread on this. I can't even come up with a way to pretend that this is vaguely related to Unity or game development. Sorry for the derail.

 

... I'm A+ In History class, don't think I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Go for it then. Explain the role of the reigning monarch in England in NZ politics for me.

As a student of history you should be well aware that the concept of the monarch has evolved dramatically over time. The American revolution played a significant part in this. But the process was happening a long time before America was even thought of. And the process continued for a long time afterward.

And trying to drag this back to games, the Civ series does an excellent job of presenting the various forms of government and how they evolve over time. Without the right population density and technologies to support them many forms of government simply cannot be achieved. Even if you have the technology for a full blown democracy, it often doesn't make sense in the early game. A modern democracy could not exist and would not have been practical even 500 years ago. Who knows what system of government our great grandchildren will choose.

 

school shootings only ever happen in states where guns are restricted. When complete freedom to bear arms exists, the teachers and several students have their own weapon, and rampages would get cut brutally short.

 

Yeah because that's just what we need in the US. More people with guns.

 

I'm going to assume the stats on this are correct, I don't have the heart to dig through school shooting stats to check. But consider these thoughts from an outsider.

• Stopping a rampage once its begun will still involve the first couple of fatalities. And probably the death of the gunner as well
• School shootings do not happen in countries where there are no guns at all

I understand America has all sorts of cultural links to the gun. I understand nobody trusts the government. But expecting kids to carry guns to school for their own protection? The mind boggles.

I'm not insisting you have to change. Its your country after all, I have no right to weigh in on your politics. Just making observations. Actually if I was going to encourage political change in America I'd have to go for reducing government protection of American agricultural interests. That would have a far more significant effect on my personal circumstances then anything you do with guns.

 

I'm sure this will be locked soon - but hey it's still alive so...

Guns will be around no matter what. Outlawing guns only ensures that it's the criminals who will have them and not law-abiding citizens who would want to defend themselves.

If you're a criminal or shooter are you going to target the place where you know people are armed or the place where you know they aren't?

 

I'm not sure I would say they only happen in areas where guns are restricted, but generally you make a good point.

 

Chances are its the place where you are. A guy goes insane in NZ. He gets a baseball bat or a knife. If he's a farmer he might have access to shorn off shot gun. Pretty much the limit of the options he has. Possible for bystanders to overpower. Contrast that with a semi automatic military weapon.

Guns are around. But that doesn't mean they have to be. They are not a necessity of life, despite what the American culture tells you.

The most interesting challenge would be how you get from everyone has a gun to no one has a gun without major destabilisation. I think the first step would be mandatory registration. Simply knowing where every gun is in the states would go a long way towards keeping them out of the hands of crazies and criminals. It would also give your police the power to do something about criminals that refuse to register their guns.

 

But that's the point - if you're a criminal and you obtain your gun illegally, are you going to get it registered? As it stands now people are supposed to have guns registered but that's not going to stop people from getting them illegally. When you create a law that prohibits people from owning guns, only law-abiding people will follow it. If you think that will prevent criminals or shooters from getting guns you've got another thing coming. And when that happens, now all of a sudden the guns are only in all the wrong hands.

 

As soon as the USA learns to stop worshiping guns, then maybe this will change. Our culture of celebrating violence has to change before we start talking about taking away people's guns. We love killing. We don't take care of our own people, and it's a big f*uck you if you screw up and need some help, but we sure as hell love our violence, our guns, and our freedom to be Christian. Until that changes, we get what we have coming to us.

 

I wasn't asking you to remove all guns now. As you indicated, that would cause all sorts of problems. I was asking you to register every gun. And perhaps license every gun owner. You then need to carry around your gun licence and gun registration whenever you have a gun with you. Give the police power to check this, and take appropriate action against anyone who carries a gun without the appropriate paper works. If as you say criminals will not register guns it lets you flush these people out of the system. A gun licencing and registration system also restricts those that can buy guns from easy channels, and gives the police power to do something about illegal gun distribution.

You'll probably have to run under this system for decades before you actually try and take your first gun away.

Its also worth noting that this has to be a federal initiative. It won't work if one can simply buy a gun then cross state borders. Unless you plan to police state borders as well.

 

Its always amazed me in politics how Christianity aligns with right wing politics. The left generally better aligns with traditional Christian values as taught by that guy on the mountain. I wonder if this is true world wide, or just in America.

 

One of the biggest reasons we hold our right to bear arms so dearly in America is that we don't trust our government. Not a bit. Our government is all about corporate money and that's it. We also don't trust our police.

There is no care for the citizens, unless those citizens are rich. The idea of the government or the police taking away people's guns sends shivers up our spines. We don't trust them. They are not out to help us. If they take away our guns then only they will have guns. That's why we hold our right to guns so dearly. And that becomes culture. And that becomes our reality. And then we just simply love guns.

 

Which raises another point - is the problem really guns or is the problem the people behind the guns? I mean there will always be violent people and they'll always find weapons of some kind. Whether that's a gun or a knife or a bat doesn't matter.

Fore the reasons I mentioned above it doesn't make sense to take guns away. It's not just the matter of a difficult transition - outlawing guns only makes things worse.

As a Christian and "Right Wing" guy I wish you would explain better what you mean by "the left generally aligns with traditional Christian values..." I won't be offended, I just want you to clarify. What traditional values, specifically?

And why should people trust the government? Regardless of its current state, the moment you take away guns you've taken a giant step away from a free country and toward communism. If you want communism, go somewhere else, but not in the US. I'm sure that sounds radical or whatever but that doesn't make it any less true.

 

That's exactly it. We don't. And with good reason. But you asked "why should we?" Well, because the government is supposed to represent us. You know, "by the people, for the people" and all that. But it doesn't, and that is why we don't trust it, and that is why the concept of getting our guns taken away is frightening. But the concept of having so many guns everywhere is also frightening. No win.

I see that you make weapons for the Asset store, so you have a vested interest in making sure people love their guns. You love them yourself, I imagine. There's no real further need to continue the conversation in that light, actually, especially when you draw the conclusion that ridding the US of guns somehow equates with communism.

 

Anyway, yeah it's totally possible to make a living as a stand-alone indie!!!

 

And thus we are back full circle. Unless you trust the Americans you elect to have the best interests of the people that elected them at there heart you won't get anywhere. It surprises me that those that coined the term 'government by the people for the people' have so little trust in that government.

Seriously guys. Don't know if you heard, but King George III died a long time ago. You won that war. And not just the one with guns, you won the philosophical and ethical battle. Thanks largely to your efforts countries all around the world can govern themselves how they see fit. We can have complete trust in our governments, knowing that they will peacefully step down at the next election if we choose to do so. Everywhere in the western world except America, the guys that pretty much invented the modern democracy.

Caring for the poor and the needy. Even communism for all its flaws does a better job at this then rampant American capitalism.

Yes it does. Getting back to games, go play pretty much any FPS. Grab the biggest, most powerful weapon you can find. Work out your kill rate per second. Then grab whatever the game uses for unarmed melee combat. How many kills per second can you make? The raw power of the weapons you have to hand makes a difference.

 

One last thing... there's a really interesting post on Reddit from a German police officer regarding his idea of American violence. It's a great read. http://www.reddit.com/r/AskLEO/comm...american_police_use_deadly_force_much/cjpgcbe

 

I actually meant to tag you earlier in this thread as one of the indie developers on the forum who have done just that. Its worth pointing out that most indie developers I see here who report success have spent some time working for the AAA industry. The experience you'll get there is certainly valuable for striking out on your own.

No stats on this, just things I've noticed.

 

Slow down there...
I have made a weapon system for the asset store because at the time it looked like a need and I wanted to create a scripting asset for the store. I assure you that has nothing to do with my political views, and I hope you're not being offended by all this - but lets try not to make assumptions.

Actually what I said was:

So no, "ridding the US of guns" does not "somehow equate with communism." But it's a slippery slope...

 

Argh...

It's totally possible to make a living as an indie!

 

That's exactly what is so sad. The country was founded on great principles but that doesn't mean our leaders still hold to them.

That's just it... we want to have that complete trust - but every day the government becomes more powerful - how long before our leaders decide they don't want to step down? Maybe not too long, based on the way things are going...

And this is where Christians are often so misunderstood. It isn't that Christians don't care for the poor or needy - often it's the opposite. It's just that conservatives don't believe it's the government's place to do that.

 

f*ck it. Arguing about this in the Unity forum is pointless.

 

No offense, but that is a very, very twisted way to look at things. I don't know any right wingers who think it's more important to have the power to kill people than to love people. I don't want killing. I just don't think gun control is the best way to prevent it.

There are a lot of things I could say to your last statement but yeah this definitely seems to be getting out of hand so I'm done.

 

Until there's an app that can scan your teeth, the integrity of your teeth depends on your dentist's education, experience and talent. He doesn't need to justify his job by working longer or proving it's hard to do, he just needs to keep your teeth healthy and that's what you value. And the way we value people's work is with money. Isn't he entitled to be valued?
Maybe you think dental care should be free, taken cared by the state, that's fine. But remember everything in life comes at a cost and in the long run it's better to value dentist's work. If we don't, the cost could be our teeth, now that would be truly expensive.

 

I'm taking a deep breath....
And I'm done.

 

if you don't want to live in a country with guns, just don't move to america. Stay the hell out of american politics.

Me ? I like guns, i want to live in a country with them. Thats why i'm planning on moving TO america. There are a million plces where guns are outlawed, liberals have no shortage of places to go if america isn't what they want.

 

Plenty of valid response to this post. Yeah, no. I'm out of this too. @hippocoder you have a padlock handy? Or alternatively the delete post button. There were a few relevant useful insights on the first couple of page, and resetting to there might be the best way to salvage this thread.

Best of luck for everybody making your way as a self funding indie developer.

 

You're not the only one finding the forums a tad dull lately.

 

I blame it on 5. All of the cool kids are off developing games. The only reason I'm still here is because I'm sick. My mind can't produce code or juggle systems when I'm sick. Let alone learn all the new ones. Apparently it also develops the power to derail forum threads.

But seriously, the whole dullness started when we were buried with a bunch of threads about the splash screen, the branding, the dark theme and so forth. I hope this all blows over and the locals return soon.

 

Same here. I've spent half the day in bed with my tablet arguing on the forum and the other half at my desk trying to get some work done. I hope you feel better soon.

 

Yeah Ive made more money selling shovels for others to look for gold then looking for gold myself. Timing is everything, if you had gotten into the appstore earlier like 2009 it would have been easier to become an established dev now, now its going to be that much more difficult (with 500 new games each day).

 

Same here. That said my entire revenue from unity amounts to about 50 bucks. And I've never really taken it seriously as a profession.

 

Nice. Primarily asset store I assume? I've got to get into that soon.

 

It's tempting to get dragged into these completely off topic and divisive issues, but I've done that enough lately. I come here to share a love of game development not complain about the lunacy of liberals and conservatives.

 

Yeah thats only from the asset store, you can make a decent amount of money from the asset store alone. Not to mention with unreal opening up you could double it. Asset store items have longer shelf live then games, years not weeks.

Im not even one of the asset store big earners, never got promoted on the front page. Some of the big guys make 30k a month.

And my shovel to the shovelers. If you make a good kit you could easily sell 2x units a day at $50 a pop. Imagine something like a good RTS kit (that unity can promote on the front page). Now you throw that on the unreal market place and source 2 (if they have one) and your laughing.