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Official Animation Status Update (Q3 2023)

Discussion in 'Animation' started by UnityChinny, Aug 24, 2023.

  1. UnityChinny

    UnityChinny

    Unity Technologies

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    A fair point. But as I have said there are so many different ways Mecanim is currently being used, it is practically impossible to address them all, so if there are workarounds etc, then we are very unlikely to address them.
     
  2. UnityChinny

    UnityChinny

    Unity Technologies

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    All fair questions - however I can’t answer them all at this time, sorry. But I will say that while the system will be new, it will not be a completely new way to do animation. It will be entrenched in traditional methods, built on a new architecture. An architecture which will rapidly accommodate any traditional or non-traditional way of working.

    This is certainly above my pay grade, so can’t comment on its feasibility.
     
  3. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    Don’t expect any positive changes made to it for the following years and expect a few negative ones. If it does what you need it to do and more, use it, but keep in mind as various regressions happen over time, they will not get fixed.
     
  4. Thaina

    Thaina

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    Being around like Mecanim probably means it will be neglected, bug will not fixed, and not compromise with new system, that it the meaning of being deprecated. And we will not know any critical use case will be blocking issue in the future so we cannot trust to use it just because it being around. That's the point

    As I have said, people are complaining right here, right now, that the bug in animation system was marked as won't fixed even if it's their blocking issue
     
  5. 00christian00

    00christian00

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    What about my question regarding low level access to the system?
     
  6. Onworlds

    Onworlds

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    Do you have any plans to restructure the team?
     
  7. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    I'm looking forward many years in the future when the new system fails to deliver on all fronts, we'll get a Unite talk that Mecanim should be the secret weapon in our toolbelt or something.
     
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  8. pastaluego

    pastaluego

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    So to use this new animation system, the ECS package will need to be installed even if nothing else in our project uses ECS? I'm already forced to require the Burst package which drastically increases domain reload times.

    I pray CoreCLR comes soon and saves us all.
     
    Sluggy likes this.
  9. XJDHDR

    XJDHDR

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    Is there a reason you can't disable Domain Reloading? From what I've read, the upgrade to CoreCLR will require everyone to do this anyway.
     
  10. Thaina

    Thaina

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    Are there any update since
    at this time
    of 2 weeks ago? Are there any new information about the new animation system as of yet?
     
  11. Baste

    Baste

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    You still need to reload domains when you recompile code! It's a lot better than before - when you had to reload the domain once after changing code so that you got to click the enter playmode button so the domain could be reloaded again - but it's still significant.

    For animators and level designers and everyone else that doesn't ever compile code, the difference shouldn't be significant.
     
  12. tonytopper

    tonytopper

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    It's time for Unity to go back to basics. As an advanced editor user (Flash, Photoshop, Illustrator, Cubase, Visual Studio, etc) but new to Unity I find the whole Unity animation stack generally clunky, and often VERY frustrating, from a UX point-of-view.

    Even calling it Mecanim is jargony; nowhere within the Unity editor is referred to as Mecanim. It's the Animator Editor Window ... right?

    Please invest in the basic UI and UX of these workflows.
     
    SolarianZ and Ofx360 like this.
  13. Ofx360

    Ofx360

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    Like trying to find out how to use the Timeline Asset you just made....somehow we're supposed to know to look for the Playable Director?? So odd that's not wrapped with something more UX friendly.
     
  14. Thaina

    Thaina

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  15. Kabinet13

    Kabinet13

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    The coming CoreCLR upgrade is what allows them to remove domain reloading entirely, and when it comes, recompiling code will be able to granularly reload only code in assemblies you have changed, effectively removing the waiting. Right now most of the time is spent reloading the entire assembly of loaded C#, most of which isn't user code, hasn't been changed, and includes things like every recent package and the entirety of URP or HDRP.
     
    Yuchen_Chang likes this.
  16. Yuchen_Chang

    Yuchen_Chang

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    I've discovered that there are two new namespaces called
    Unity.Motion.Hybrid
    and
    Unity.Motion.Timeline
    added to the latest 2023.3 alpha release, different from the old
    Unity.Animation.Hybrid
    one. I'm happy that maybe it means that the new animation package also supports Timeline (&Playable?).
     
  17. XJDHDR

    XJDHDR

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    The CoreCLR upgrade doesn't allow Unity to remove Domain Reloading; it forces them to do so. Otherwise, I did forget about the Domain Reload step that happens after recompiling code regardless of what the Doman Reload option is set to. I believe that Josh also mentioned that CoreCLR Unity will be able to use the same pre-compiled code that IDEs use, which would further save time.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the problem here is that Unity recompiles package code alongside user code, could you not create a global Assembly Definition for your project's code. Meaning that you place an asmdef in the root of the "Script" folder. Would this not ensure that your project's code is compiled separately from Unity's additions?
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2023
  18. bobadi

    bobadi

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    one of the shortcoming of the system now is that

    - a clip of a animator state can only be got if being played (animator.GetCurrentAnimator StateInfo/ClipInfo)
    - or all of the clips (RuntimeAnimatorController.animationClips)

    so for example, to get the clips of a state is cumbersome

    as the clip have useful info (length or curvedata) and to build a system that utilizes these data, the new system should make sure that obtaining clip data from animator is easy and general. (and can be got in start() and update() too)
     
  19. mishakozlov74

    mishakozlov74

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    Hey @UnityChinny, thanks for the updates. I work in quite a large (more than 900 employee) stupio, we have our in-house engine that we've been supporting for many years, (although one of our games is on Unity!). I know how hard it is to work on such complex systems.

    I was wondering about your approach, if you don't mind. I understand that it might be under NDA, so if you could just shape it, I'd appreciate it.

    As we all know, Unity doesn't produce games per se, but there are tons of teams that do. Is there any kind of communication between you (as Unity) and developers? I think the biggest concern @Baste has is lack of that.

    As a hobby Unity developer, I'd be happy to know that much more experienced developers give you early feedback.
    I think many of us will feel safe knowing that :)
     
  20. Peter77

    Peter77

    QA Jesus

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    My perspective on Unity feedback is two-fold. It is positive that they ask for feedback, but I feel that it is frequently not given proper consideration.

    It seems more like they ask the community so they can avoid complaints, but ultimately do what they think is best. I understand this perspective, as they likely have highly skilled engineers specializing in their respective fields.

    Why should they listen to regular people when they possess far superior knowledge? I understand that. However, the issue arises when even with extensive theoretical knowledge, assumptions often fall apart when put into practice in a real production setting. This may be a reason why many people believe that Unity's technology will always lag behind if they do not create their own games.

    Another problem is that before Unity asks for feedback or requirements, they naturally conduct their research and likely implement initial versions of these systems. This approach makes sense, but the issue I have observed is that Unity often responds with "your suggestion was not covered by our initial assumptions" when providing feedback, resulting in the feedback either being declined or postponed. Feature changes that are delayed often take years. I have submitted bugs that were postponed almost 10 years ago and they still have not been fixed.

    In summary, my perspective on feedback is to not expect too much.
     
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  21. Thaina

    Thaina

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    Totally accurate, I'm applaud

    This is Asian style government that I don't expected from westerner company like unity. But after a while I feel like they really do things like this

    To be blunt, Asian style government means soft dictatorship that fake themselves to be virtuous and generous, while westerner tend to be honest if they really want feedback or not
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2023
  22. Onworlds

    Onworlds

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    Racism and childish political bias should not be brought into game development.

    The biggest issue is that their boss is not well-versed in game development, leading to a significant discrepancy between the system expected by the developers and the actual system requirements being developed.
     
  23. Thaina

    Thaina

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    I am Asian so this is not racism but first hand experience from my whole life
     
  24. Endlesser

    Endlesser

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    The DOTS Animation Package(0.9.0 preview latest) documentation & page are gone for several days, any particular reason to remove it from public and no review its records and functionalities?

    upload_2023-12-16_8-36-31.png
    upload_2023-12-16_8-36-17.png

    Or any replacement coming?
     
    Thaina likes this.
  25. SinisterMephisto

    SinisterMephisto

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    Unity's animation solutions are the reason i stopped using the tool.
     
  26. Onigiri

    Onigiri

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    Any news? How far are we from release?
     
  27. optimise

    optimise

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  28. filod

    filod

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    About 6 years ago, Unity said it would develop a dots animation solution that people would use for the next 10 years.
    Now just wait another 4 years, we will get a whole new animation solution even better than the dots one ;)
     
  29. Somnesis

    Somnesis

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    Hi there! Just want to check in again about this tool:


    Any likelihood that it would be available as a package soon, even if in beta or alpha status?

    Or has the direction on AI pipelines shifted with the introduction of text based input in Muse? I would personally hugely prefer the workflow seen in Florent's video rather than text input. Especially for animation, and precise animation, trying to describe things in words will be a huge pain in the ass.
     
  30. nehvaleem

    nehvaleem

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    I would also like to know more about that! It seems really awesome!
     
  31. jacques_unity12

    jacques_unity12

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    @UnityChinny Any updates here?! People are starting new projects and thus why would we stick with systems that will be deprecated or at least sunsetted with minimal support going forward.At least give us a timeline, as rough as it might be, to make the decision to stick with placeholder / no animations until we can see how the new system will work (even though it will be experimental).

    It is beyond understanding why you would keep this secret for so long unless you guys don't have any resemblance of a working system and are trying to rush one out, which would be even more detrimental.

    I hope the animation team wasn't completely decimated by the layoffs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
    Thaina and WAYNGames like this.
  32. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    Don't depend on features that aren't here yet.
     
  33. Endlesser

    Endlesser

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    They were here before and theu pulled them back, technically.

    I still can't figure out why they'd rather spend more than 3+ years to create another new animation system based on dots than spend a few months make previous dots anim compatible with latest ecs in the first place.

    either the previous foundations and directions were totally mistaken and they wanted it back on track over and all,
    or,
    the previous features and funcs were so cool that they decided it not even for dots adapters but also for all unity users ambitiously.

    Hopefully worth the time: )
     
  34. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    Previews and experimental and any non "production ready" feature don't count as "here".
     
  35. SolarianZ

    SolarianZ

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    2024 Q1 is almost over, but we haven't seen any news from 2023 Q4 yet.
     
    filod likes this.
  36. filod

    filod

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    doubt that, "production ready" package like animation rigging has been not updated for more that 1 year.
     
  37. rthorat

    rthorat

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    They already previously stated they have decided to replace Mecanim completely with a solution that will work for DOTS and GameObjects going forward. The rationale for this was Mecanim's age. They solicited suggestions on what the new animation system should look like. I think this was a wise decision, but they acknowledged it means a longer wait for the new system.
     
  38. Onigiri

    Onigiri

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    I want new animation so badly... Maybe they'll show it on GDC...
     
    Thaina likes this.
  39. filod

    filod

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    sadly, no. check here: https://schedule.gdconf.com/
     
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  40. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    At this point the only thing we can hope is that they can show us they still have a team working on Animation.
     
    Thaina likes this.
  41. UnityChinny

    UnityChinny

    Unity Technologies

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    Hello everyone.

    Thanks for your patience, I will be preparing another update soon.
    I have been holding off, given all the recent changes at Unity since my last post.
    However I can say we are still very much working on animation, although I don't expect there will be an announcement at GDC

    Chinny
     
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  42. Thaina

    Thaina

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    I can't comprehend the word `soon` from unity. Is it in the timescale of mortal?
     
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  43. SolarianZ

    SolarianZ

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    :cool:
    Code (CSharp):
    1. public static class UnitySchedule
    2. {
    3.     public static string GetTime() => "Soon";
    4. }
     
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  44. bobadi

    bobadi

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    since mecanim/unity can do fixedtimeOffset and normalizedtimeOffset too for crossfades

    Animator.CrossFade uses normalizedTimeOffset
    Animator.CrossFadeInFixedTime uses fixedTimeOffset

    it would be great to pass a boolean/int(?) in there so either one of them could be used
    and the new system would be able to crossfade to the same/current state like crossfadeInFixedTime