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An Update on Substance Format Support in Unity

Discussion in 'External Tools' started by ans_unity, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. soleron

    soleron

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    I suppose this is better news than none. Although judging from the GDC numbers unveiled, more than 50% Mobile and more than 60-70% XR is what many people would be interested to see being supported first for Unity since its the predominantly mobile and XR friendly engine.

    At least that is what I would take into consideration to set my development priorities. I hope both LWRP and HDRP will be eventually supported too. But from what I read, it doesn't sound we are going to see proper Substance support before the second half of the year...
     
  2. hopeful

    hopeful

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    The beginning of the second half of the year is not far away ... though the end of it is. ;)
     
  3. wesm

    wesm

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    I understand where you are coming from. We will have an initial roll out and then will be aggressively updating the plugin on a consistent basis to get the feature set our users needs to have. We will be focusing on mobile with the first update.

    We will be adding LWRP and HDRP support as well. Currently, substance outputs work with the HD pipeline, it's just not automatically connecting outputs to the shaders. We also will be adding functionality to create the mask map for the shaders. We will provide users the ability to create the mask map output with control over channel packing. This will be in addition to the default packing to the alpha behavior from the previous integration.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
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  4. soleron

    soleron

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    Good to hear. Especially with the dual RP situation things are becoming a bit complicated. We were counting on Substance to actually bridge the two paths and save us from having to create 2 different versions of each material depending on the RP. If you guys manage to do that it would be fantastic!
     
  5. soleron

    soleron

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    In all this bad situation, Substance integration drop, dual RP and incompatible material chaos, I was trying to find a way to sound a bit optimistic making it sound not so far away. :p
     
  6. eagleeyez

    eagleeyez

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    Rule Nr:1 do not change a running system
    Rule Nr2: Do not change rule Nr:1
    Rule Nr3: Do not upgrade if rule rule 1+ 2 are important to you
    Rule Nr4: If rule 1+ 2+ 3 have been obligated then rule 5 applies.
    Rule Nr5. break everything.
    BuildR does not work anymore.
    Rule Nr:6 Do not upgrade to quickly.
     
  7. wesm

    wesm

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    Hey Everyone,

    I'm very happy to say that we will be releasing the Substance in Unity 2018.1 plugin on April 26th! We will be releasing as an open beta and the plugin will be available on the Unity Asset Store. We will release a blog post tomorrow with all of the details, tutorials and full documentation.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  8. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    Any word on if it will work with the 2018.2 beta too?
     
  9. wesm

    wesm

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    Yes, it works with 2018.2 beta : )

    Cheers,
    wes
     
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  10. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    amazing! thanks wes!

    I have been so excited for this!

    oh and just a minor issue that has been bugging me: TELL US WHAT THE HELL ALCHEMY IS?!?!?!? XD
     
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  11. TimElschner

    TimElschner

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    I suspect Alchemy is a texture generator with a machine learning approach where an cnn is trained to recreate substance nodes based on real image data ;)
     
  12. wesm

    wesm

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    The plugin has been released!

    Here is the new documentation: https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/integrations/Unity+2018
    Please be sure to check the beta release information: https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/integrations/Beta+Information

    Here you can find tutorials for the new plugin: https://tutorials.allegorithmic.com/courses/649a0212242a813826322b9468c275f8/youtube-Dy177PrxRfs

    This is only the beginning : ) We have lots more work to do. I will be posting updates as we continue to provide plugin updates.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
  13. AFrisby

    AFrisby

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    Hey @wesm - great to see this finally come out.

    Can I double confirm that content will restore correctly from earlier Unity versions? (i.e. materials don't need to be rebuilt to use this)
     
  14. wesm

    wesm

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    We have added a process for upgrade 2017 projects. Please take a look here. https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/integrations/Upgrading+2017.x+projects.

    We are going to be improving this as well. There some steps for this first release,but it will get better in a future update.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
  15. AFrisby

    AFrisby

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    This looks like you're rewriting the .meta files - is the method you use for this something that could be documented?

    We're going to need to update projects programatically without being able to launch 2 versions side-by-side; and if we could write a tool to edit the .meta files prior to opening in 2018 (without needing to launch in 2017), that'd be ideal.
     
  16. orb

    orb

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    I started fresh in 2018.2b2, and it's straightforward and working as expected. I guess things are pretty much back to normal (with new and improved features) as long as Unity Technologies don't go breaking the API :)
     
  17. JakubSmaga

    JakubSmaga

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    Hey @wesm, thanks for the plugin. Great job!

    Is there any hope for a Package Manager version of it? I personally prefer to keep all of my game assets in the Assets folder and the plugins in the Package Manager folder.

    Also I'm not sure if that's a bug but I can't change "Load Behavior" under Target Settings.

    +Shouldn't that be spelled "Behaviour" ?

    Greets,
    Jakub
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  18. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    Package manager is for unity internal. This is now an external plugin so I doubt that will ever happen unfortunately! This is not a bad thing, substance controlling substance releases is better than unity controlling it, as would have to happen with package manager release to be viable.

    @wesm
    you should pass on to the team that authoring a toon or cel style shader to use in painter and designer for previewing materials, both a PBR aproximated (smoothness, specular) and a non-PBR.

    It is a massive pain for us to keep jumping back to an engine or external program just to preview a brush stroke!
     
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  19. JakubSmaga

    JakubSmaga

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    It's not only for internal stuff, Unity developers already stated that it's only internal for now because they are testing it, they want to open it for the community in the future. (Documentation on creating custom packages is already available)
     
  20. Grimreaper358

    Grimreaper358

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    It's not a bug, the Load Behaviors is disabled. It's mentioned in this video (timestamped)
     
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  21. JakubSmaga

    JakubSmaga

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    Thanks for the information!

    It's not mentioned on the Beta information page, @wesm you should add it to the know issues. (I know that It's in the Target Settings section but it also should be on the main page IMO)
     
  22. wesm

    wesm

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    Ah, very sorry I missed this. I have added this to the known issues section. Thanks for your feedback.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
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  23. wesm

    wesm

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    We will talk to Unity about how we can support Package Manager when it's open for the community.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
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  24. John-Chen350

    John-Chen350

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    Are you going to release x86 Engine.dll? Not x86_64..
     
  25. f1chris

    f1chris

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    I'm having a little issue with my Normal texture when importing from any .sbar

    Any clue how to fix it ? thanks in advance !!
     

    Attached Files:

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  26. f1chris

    f1chris

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    Additional info. When loading a substance, default Target format is Compressed and causing a problem with Directional Light not rendering shadows.

    See pictures 2, i just switch format to Raw and shadows rendered right away.

    Is it a bug or something I'm not doing as it should ?

    PS: I'm on a Mac with for sure the newest 2018.1.0f1 version

    thanks again
     

    Attached Files:

  27. wesm

    wesm

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    Hi John,

    Yes, we will be supporting x86 engine.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
  28. wesm

    wesm

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    Hi,

    We are using BC5 compression for the normal maps. BC5 is a lossless compression and provides better quality. It encodes data on the R and G channels so that is why you don't see the typical blue in the image.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
  29. wesm

    wesm

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    Hi,

    We can't seem to reproduce this issue on Mac or PC with 2018.f1. Are you using a custom substance or a substance from source?

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
  30. f1chris

    f1chris

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    First thanks for your help.

    In the screenshot posted there's 2 SBR from different sources but the square tiles one is 4d_print_chain_mail_front downloaded from Substance Source directly from unity (stored in my Assets/Materials folder).

    I'm using a simple Directional light and everything realtime for testing. Check my screenshot below...it's my light settings, hope it helps.

    Again, I switch your source substance to Raw, and the shadow shows up, switch it back to his default ( Compressed) is the shadow doesn't render.
     

    Attached Files:

  31. sschoellhammer

    sschoellhammer

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    Hello there,

    I have a strange problem, I'm on windows and it seems I'm not getting the plugins folder when I import the package. That way I can't import sbsar files either. When I preview package contents I get mac like contents?

    I have the same behaviour in 2017.3

    Anybody else experiencing this?

    Thanks!

    upload_2018-4-30_8-58-42.png
     
  32. John-Chen350

    John-Chen350

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    So.. When will x86 support be available?
     
  33. wesm

    wesm

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    Hi,

    Are you using a custom shader? In your previous screen shot, I can see in the Generated textures the normal map is being packed into the metallic. This would not work correctly. Are you changing the channel packs?

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
  34. wesm

    wesm

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    HI,

    We don't have an exact ETA just yet, but we will add x86 along with mobile support.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
  35. wesm

    wesm

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    Hi,

    I think this is caused by having the plugin downloaded previously. You need to go to your downloads in the Asset Store and you will see an update button for Substance in Unity. After the update, you can then import and the plugin will be there.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
  36. f1chris

    f1chris

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    I'm pretty sure I'm using the standard shader. I'm away from my computer but i'll give it a check later today.

    For the channel pack, don't think I played with that.
     
  37. wesm

    wesm

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    Thanks, please let us know. It looks like the channel packing is incorrect for the shader. Can you send a screen shot again of the substance parameters once you check your scene? For the metallic channel, you should see smoothness map for the alpha. In your previous screen shot, it read as normal. You can click this drop down menu and choose smoothness to see if it fixes the problem.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
  38. sschoellhammer

    sschoellhammer

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    Hi Wes,

    thanks for the quick reply. Sadly I'm not sure that's the case. This is a fresh unity 2018 project..

    upload_2018-5-1_13-20-10.png

    This is the screen I'm getting when I import.

    if you check the bottom of the screen you'll notice an error. Might that be related?


    Thanks!

    seb
     
  39. wesm

    wesm

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    Hi Seb,

    I had this issue as well with a fresh project. You need to go to your downloads in the Asset Store and there you will see an update option. After you perform the update, the import will then be the latest build. In the attached screen shot, I updated the plugin from Downloads and it now shows as import. From the product page, I had import and not update at first and just importing was not including the substance engine plugin.

    Another option if you are having issue with the update is to delete the Substance Plugin folder here.

    Win 10: %Appdata%\Unity\Asset Store-5.x\
    Mac: ~/Library/Unity/Asset Store/

    Cheers,
    Wes
     

    Attached Files:

  40. OmarVector

    OmarVector

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    I had the same problem, and I solved only but disable compression and make it Raw ,the main problem was the normal map has no blue channel, its only RG , it works fine only in realtime lighting, but once you bake your lights, it become so dark.

    Also, is there any way to save the generated files to desk away from .sbar inside the project? , I cant even see any GetGeneratedTexture() from your api right now, its so critical for me right now.

    Thanks :))

    Edit: I've seen your explanation for R and G channel compression, but still seems to break the light baking .
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  41. f1chris

    f1chris

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  42. wesm

    wesm

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    @f1christian @OmarVector We can't seem to replicate this issue with Enlighten or Progressive. For the meshes where the materials are applied, are they set to Static or Lightmapped Static? If these are not set, then I do get no shadows. In the attached image, the ground plane is set to lightmapped static and I'm using the Progressive Lightmapper.
     

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  43. f1chris

    f1chris

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    It's set to static. And as soon as i flip the Format to Compressed vs Raw, you see the shadow showing up or just disappear.
     
  44. wesm

    wesm

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    We do have a bug with the AO map causing the render to be black after setting the compression to raw. If you remove the AO map from the material, does it look correct?

    Here you can see a video of what I am getting. This shows the AO map bug. https://www.dropbox.com/s/lte6hpb6si65tsp/raw.mp4?dl=0
     
  45. radiantboy

    radiantboy

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    Is this meant to work in unity 2018 now? Downloaded update but acts the same, ie not working and unity saying I need to get substances external importer.
     
  46. wesm

    wesm

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    Yes, this works with Unity 2018. You many need to update the plugin. Go to My Downloads in the Asset Store and for Substance in Unity, choose update and then import.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
  47. f1chris

    f1chris

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    Hi Wes, sorry for late reply, back home now. To make sure I've downloaded the latest build , 2018.1.0f2

    Here's a better screenshot where you can see all settings. Both textures are the same Compressed on the left, Raw on right side.

    Can't see it in the screenshot at the bottom, but none have an AO texture. That texture was downloaded from Unity ( Substance Source) and name is 4d_print_chain_mail_front ( but tested with others and seem to be with same results).

    My lighting settings are very similar to yours !!

    thx again for your help !
     

    Attached Files:

  48. radiantboy

    radiantboy

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    im on 2018.2.0b2, still not working on this one.
     
  49. wesm

    wesm

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    No problem : ) Happy to help. Could you please send me your Unity project? You can email me directly at wes.mcdermott@allegorithmic.com.

    Cheers,
    Wes
     
  50. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    We luckily only have 5 substance materials in total in our project from various asset store assets. I feel sorry for those with thousands. No settings are migrated over, all material references on mesh instances are lost, many settings does not work, and finally the plugin freezes the editor.

    I feel sorry for the asset artists that rely on Substance materials in their assets, they will surly get bad reviews now when their assets are broken in 2018.1.

    I love substance, not a artist myself but I really love the assets created using its workflow. I often use substance as a filter on artstation when I find assets to buy because their PBR materials always looks better than the rest. But I'm sad to say I'm really disappointed how this was handled both from you guys and Unity, I'm a part time game dev and really dont have time for this kind of set backs,

    When pressing apply Unity hangs upload_2018-5-3_17-17-28.png
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
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