Amplify Texture 2 - Development Showcase

Can we just use unity´s new shaders from the blacksmith demo?
Any other news about this for example support for shader forge shaders or rtp shaders?

 

You seem to have very specific project requirements, I will contact you privately.

Amplify can definitely do that, it's not yet available as a standard feature though.

Thanks!

 

Hello,

Thank you for your interest, we really appreciate it.

They will have to be manually converted, you can use almost any shader package. Shader conversion information is available in the Amplify Texture 2 Manual, chapter 14.

We are actively working on support for those packages but we are not ready to post any additional information at this time.

Thanks!

 

Hi, PVT sounds very interesting and a good fit for our game. Can you explain the workflows behind it and the pros and cons of it vs 'typical' virtual textures?

 

Hello,

Great to hear from you, I would be happy to elaborate.

There aren't specific pros & cons so to speak, different techniques for different applications. Standard virtualization favors larger and static pre-built virtual textures whilst procedural virtual textures are generated on the fly as required.

Using the Frostbite Terrains as an example, PVT is definitely the ideal technique. Instead of pre-built fully baked larger virtual textures the terrain splats are rendered into virtual textures at runtime. This subtle difference allows for less compressed textures, additional splats and blending methods, direct rendering of missing pages, higher frame-to-frame coherency and reduced terrain rendering costs.

The optimization gains are quite noticeable when compared to standard shader terrain splatting, PVT has a predictable and negligible performance cost. Another interesting technique is Adaptive Virtual Texturing, I definitely recommend checking it out, the PDF below also gives you a good insight on how terrain specific virtualization works.

Adaptive Virtual Texture Rendering in Far Cry 4 - GDC Vault

The current Unity workflow will likely change before it’s made available, we would prefer to elaborate at a later stage but in any case one of the main objectives is to be as simple to use as possible.

Let us know if you have any additional questions.

Thanks!

 

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Amplify Texture 2 - Next-Generation massive virtual texturing
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Only 1 day left, take advantage of the Unite Boston promotion and save 30% on any Amplify Creations product, including the Multi-Tile UV Bake Tool. Stay tuned, we have a few upcoming updates!

Amplify Creations Unity Products
Amplify Motion - High quality and high performing vector based motion blur
Amplify Texture 2 - Next-Generation massive virtual texturing
Amplify Color - Industry level color grading

Use the promotional code UNITE15 in our web store to take advantage of the discount, only during Unite!

Thank you for all your support.

 

Is Amplify Texture 2 in Asset Store? Why can't I find it?

 

Hello,

Amplify Texture 2 is currently only available for pre-order via our website, we do plan to launch it there as soon as we finish Mobile and Console support. We are getting very close, we are on the final stages of development.

Thanks!

 

Going to GDC 2016? Get in touch via PM or email, we would love to meet up and talk about our tech.

 

Hi all

Does this work.with shader forge? Also is this something we can buy or still beta? Take my money now if this works with shader forge

Thanks

Will

 

Hello Will,

Thank you for your interest, we really appreciate it. At the moment shaders created in Shader Forge have to be converted manually, we hope to simplify the use of node based editors in the near future, be sure to keep an eye out for updates.

AT2 is still in development but it can be purchased directly from our website, the current pre-order offers a 3-seat license and early access to development builds.

Thanks!

 

Hello and thanks for your very quick replies (on both threads .

Is there any documentation or examples of exactly what this manual conversion entails?

Many thanks again

Will.

 

Hello Will,

No problem, happy to help. We provide a standard shader conversion example but depending on the actual Shader Forge shader it usually involves a few additional steps; AT2 Manual section 14. We would be happy to examine one of your Shader Forge shaders on our side, not every node can be virtualized.

Thanks!

 

Hello. Does AT2 have an integration package to make it work with RTP terrain shaders?

 

Hello,

Thank you for your interest, we really appreciate it. Not at the moment but it's definitely something we would love to support in the future. Some of our users were able to use it for virtualized Color and Normal coverage textures but they had to manually convert the RTP shaders.

What type of textures were you looking to virtualize?

Thanks!

 

I mainly wanted to optimize terrain color maps and also terrain textures as well.

Do you have a guide for manually converting the RTP shaders?

 

Hello,

At the moment, we don't offer specific conversion manuals for 3rd-party shaders. We do provide a starting point; be sure to check out the Amplify Texture 2 Manual, section 14 (How To Convert Your Own Shaders).

Thanks!

 

​

Celebrate Unite Los Angels 2016 with an awesome 50% OFF Amplify Texture 2. Be sure to also check out our fully functional trial versions.

Use the promotional code UNITE2016 to take advantage of the discount, only via our website.

Thank you for all your support.

 

New Year's resolution! Eliminate texture limitations on mobile with Amplify Texture 2.


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Available soon to all early adopters and in the free public trial version.

 

Yeah

Edit:

Can you please tell us the minimum hardware specs for mobiles to support Amplify Textures 2.

 

Not yet, we are still improving the mobile version. We should have a better estimate very soon.

Thanks!

 

would like to know this as well since 42% of users still own and use Android Open GL2.0. most new assets only seem to support 3.0 and above... as a mobile developer we need tools that support Open GL2.0.. since almost half of our player base will have Open GL2.0 . So I hope you are able to keep that in mind..I also do understand the limitations..

 

Hello,

Thank you for pointing it out, we really appreciate your interest. Supporting the lowest specifications possible is one of our main priorities but, due to technical limitations, we are currently unable to support OpenGL ES 2.0. Thankfully, ES 3.0 has gained considerable ground in the last year, currently at 42.4%, followed by ES 3.1 at 15.7%.

Thanks!

 

Hi ) v2.0.5 dev 001 – 2nd January 2017 – Stable w/o mobile support?

 

Hello,

Thank you for your interest, we really appreciate it. Not at the moment but, hopefully, we can offer a functional development preview during the weekend. The current version still needs a few tweaks and fixes before it's made available, nothing too serious.

Thanks!

 

sadly no point in mobile support then right now, then, or a mobile dev to want it..sorry, since 42% of our playbase will have Open GL 2.0. In a few years, it will become useful. for mobile developers. Thanks anyways. cant make money supporting losing half of the player base only... we wouldnt be in business.. but I understand the limitations, just understand as a mobile developer , we need to stay in business and look at what devices are used at the current time.

In a few years, I could see this and other assets being useful for mobile but NOT at this time..

 

But many mobile developers target ES3 now - higher end cardboard experiences and more so speak for yourself

 

Hello,

Regarding AT2, mobile support is critical for current generation (3.0) and future variants. It's particularly important in new VR/AR related fields, not only for games but also serious applications. If you need to support OpenGL ES 2.0 then, sadly, you will not be able to take advantage of AT2.

Do you mean 42% based on the Google Developer statistics? I recommend checking the Unity hardware statistics for a more accurate estimate, if I'm not mistaken, the number is considerable lower.

Thanks!

 

Indeed, it's best to target less, but capable devices, than to provide a unpleasant VR experience.

 

yes and I also have conducted tests with actually gamers as well, most use 2.0. over 50% . I been developing for mobile for a decade it self... Yes you are correct for other apps it would be good, but for some of us game developers not so much.... But I have conducted tests with over 1000 users, as well, on top of users, 2.0 is what many use today.. They had a sale not long ago for 50 dollar devices which caused many to buy it so that is another reason the drop...I have a 3 year old tablet which as 2.0 as well. and works for all games on the market...

In a few years, it will be worth it for us to support JUST Open GL 3.0 and above, right now many games support 2.3, and 4.0 ... devices, and many have Open GL2.0.

PS: even in that stats we are losing 36 % which is a lot in mobile development. Either way the asset looks great, but I will invest in the future.. since I do not use Unity for PC I use other game engines for console and PC development. Keep up the great work . looks great. This is all my opinion and experience of development of over 25years.. and over a decade of mobile, but if someone has information showing games doing really well, with only supporting Open GL 3.0 and above and been really successful, by all means, would love to see this information. incase we missed it.

Thanks,

 

Hello,

Thank you for your input, it's always great to hear from other developers when it comes to specific user statistics. Indeed, there are still quite a few OpenGL ES 2.0 devices out there, hopefully we will see higher rates of adoption for ES 3.0 devices during 2017.

Thanks!

 

I'm still looking forward to the development, I own most of your tools and you guys do great work. So keep that up..! Love the new visual shader tool, love that you made it open source..

Yes I agree with the whole Open GL3.0.. we have considered two versions for users since everything looks amazing, and the graphics is stunning. . High end graphics and low end for our newer game. We also use Modo and Mari, love that you guys support them...I was a Max, Maya user for years, for modeling, now I use Maya for animation only and Modo for Modeling.

 

Thanks, we really appreciate the support! Glad to know that ASE caught your attention, we strongly believe that such plugins should always offer source code.

We know what you mean, having two versions can be really forbidding. It's great to see other Foundry users on the forum, MODO and MARI are two of the most important tools in our pipeline.

 

yeah, with no opengl 2.0 support it means also a no for mobile edition. Way too many devices still on opengl 2

 

We understand, thank you for checking it out.

 

How similar is this to ID Tech/Doom's MegaTextures?

 

Hello,

Thank you for your interest, we really appreciate it.

They are similar, both virtualize and stream large quantities of texture data. However, our implementation, Unity based workflow, and features provided, are completely different. Check out the Amplify Texture 1 (discontinued) and the current Amplify Texture 2 page for additional information.

Let us know if you have any specific questions, we would be more than happy to elaborate.

Thanks!

 

Hi,

I have issues using AT2 with unity 5.6. After importing AT I have imported Unity-Shaders_v5.6 from the ThridParty folder, but the shaders are not working, because of these errors:



After this I have reimported the whole plugin and kept default amplify shaders. Everything seems to work ok, but the performance with enabled AT Manager is 20-30fps lower and there are much more drawcalls.

 

Hello,

Thank you for evaluating AT2, we really appreciate it. Which AT2 and Unity version are you currently using? (Check the version under Window > Amplify Texture 2 > About) You shouldn't need to manually import the shader package, did you experience any other issues before trying that?

AT2 doesn't currently provide a dedicated draw call reduction feature, it actually has an extra small predictable draw call cost due to the pre-pass that determines which textures to stream. None virtualized assets should always be excluded (vegetation, transparent assets etc), you can reduce the overall draw call count by using the Culling Mask option in the Amplify Texture 2 Manager to include only objects that contain virtualized Materials. Using LOD’s or low-poly proxy meshes visible only to the AT2 pre-pass instead of the visible game assets, marking your objects static in order to take advantage of static batching (or relying on dynamic batching when possible), will also be extremely beneficial. You can also lower your material draw call count by using multi-tile uv collections, regardless of the number of textures used each collection would be considered to be a single texture by AT2, using a single material.

We could really use some additional information regarding the performance hit. A screenshot of your AT parameters (if different from default values), profiler information or comparison shots.

Looking forward to your reply.

 

Hi,

I am using unity 5.6.1f1 and AT2 2.2.0_dev001 Trial. I already done excluding vegetation, trasparent, cutout and other non AT shaders to different layer.

Spoiler: Settings

Manager:


Camera:


VT settings:

Spoiler: Comparison

 

Here's another comparison

Spoiler: Comparison 2

 

Hello,

Thank you for the additional information, we really appreciate it. Please keep in mind that the performance in the editor is not representative of the actual application performance, running inside the editor is much slower due to the overhead caused by AT editor background tasks.

Page/texture uploading to GPU, in Unity, is the slowest part due to being synchronous (on main thread) and rather inefficient overall - this should be fixed in future Unity versions(hopefully). You can modify this value in the "Pages Per Frame" property of AT Camera. Our default value is very low and you could safely increase it to 10 or 15 pages per frame. Please increase this in small increments as well on your target hardware spec, until it feels right. It should be kept as low as possible, however. This value should be inversely proportional to to texel density and unique detail - when using a lot of repeated textures, this number can be kept low. Increasing "Pages Per Frame" should be combined with incremental "Streaming Threads" for every 8-10 pages. From your screenshots, you seem to be using higher values for the editor settings than you are for the runtime component, nothing wrong with that but lower performance is to be expected.

We could really use a comparison with the actual non-AT2 version. Screenshots + profiler information so that we can pinpoint the bottleneck.

What Vsync parameters are you using?
What GPU and CPU do you currently use?

Looking forward to your reply.

 

Hi,

Vsync is off, I was testing on amd rx 460 + Intel Core 2 Quad 9300 and on nvidia 970 + core i5. I will send you those non-AT2 comparisons + profiler asap, but before that I would to ask if you are planning dx12/vulkan support? If so do you have any ETA?

 

Thank you for the additional information, we really appreciate it. We understand if you are busy, preparing the comparisons can be a bit time consuming; could you instead check the current profiler information while using AT? It would be great to know which step is actually causing the performance hit.

Same results in an actual build?

Vulkan support should be available in the near future, it really depends on the actual Unity implementation.(currently experimental)

Thanks!

 

As you probably know, when a texture is indirectly referenced in Unity, it is loaded into video memory regardless of if/when it is drawn.

So for example, say I have a list of item prefabs the player may be able to equip. These prefabs contain meshes, textures, etc. Perhaps the player isn't able to equip them right away, but some item manager has a reference to them for the sake of being albe to work with them in code.
By virtue of having the prefab referenced - even if one of the prefabs is *never even used* through the play session - it will still load that prefab's meshes and textures into some sort of memory.

This very aggressive form of memory "management" (if it can even be called that) used by unity makes it extremely easy to force player's computers to load the entirety of your game's assets before he even starts playing. Most of this memory will be textures.

On the other side, engines like id, unreal and cryengine seem to use a lazy approach where textures are only loaded from the disk when they're actually about to be drawn. They initially use a low-res version of the texture to ensure your frame rate doesn't spike when new objects become visible and gradually load in higher res textures. Otherwise, if the textures are not visible, they are eventually unloaded from RAM/VRAM. This is something unity NEEDS - does Amplify provide it?

I've heard from somewhere that Amplify does not help with RAM, e.g. RAM used by textures. If this is true, how can you claim that Amplify allows "virtually unlimited textures" given that most people don't have enough RAM to hold that amount of texture data? In other words, if one made a game with 100 GB of textures, of which any can become visible at any time, how would Amplify help make a game like this possible if all 100 GB of texture data has to be loaded into RAM anyway?

 

Never mind me, we just built a test project with over 5 GB of texture data visible at once.

Without Amplify, running 5 instances of this test demo would kill a computer with 32 GB of RAM and 2 GB of VRAM.

With Amplify, RAM ussage increased by a trivial amount after all 5 instances were running, though VRAM was filled. HUGE improvement.

Good stuff man!

 

Thank you for taking the time to test it, that's why we offer a fully functional trial version. We have client projects that go over 100GB of texture data in a single screen, and that's just one of the many perks of using a system like Amplify Texture 2.

The idea here is that regardless of the quantity, its data is virtualized in a way that it never streams more than is necessary to draw a frame. It doesn't actually stream the original files, it streams the necessary tiles from a highly-optimized virtual texture.

Thanks!

 

Do you think AT2 will work with MegaSplat and help to get better performance?
MegaSplat (from the asset store) use Unity´s texture array and you can for example use about 256 textures on terrain without a great speed loss. Would be great if AT2 also gets more speed (for an VR game) together with MegaSplat. But maybe the one will not work with the other.
If it could work and will get better performance it would be great if you can get in contact with jbooth, the developer of MegaSplat, becouse his shader will be atomaticly generated and maybe it would be good to put in what is neccessary for AT2 before it is generated.

 

Hello,

Thank you for your interest, we really appreciate it. Unfortunately, the techniques used are quite different; as is, they would not complement each other. We are in touch with the MegaSplat developer, we actually added support for it in ASE not long ago.

We are always on the lookout for possible improvements, I will keep you posted on any related developments.

Thanks!