Alloy Physical Shader Framework Version 3 For Unity 5

@0roboros: I am available for paid consulting/training for Alloy/lighting/workflow and related subject matter. My email is anton at rustltd.com. Please enclose as much detail about your project as possible, as well as your learning objectives.

@asemenov: We will investigate. Are you making sure to check while in playmode?

@Aabel: I will ask @n00body

 

Yes, of course! I double checked in Unity Profiler and FrameDebugger, not only in stats menu.

 

What I figured out. It seems that LOD fade feature for some reason disables batching right now even when its not used.
To make it clear: in test scene i'm NOT using LOD Groups and still batching fails.

If I comment line 160 (DisableBatching" = "LODFading") in Core.shader batching starts to work!
Maybe it is Unity bug.

From this thread https://community.unity.com/t5/Shaders/SOLVED-LOD-Fading-feature-cost/td-p/2608101
it seems that @n00body is awared about this problem except that it is causes batching problems in current Unity version.

 

Iiiinteresting. Are these features supposed to work together? Maybe this is why the LOD fading isn't even enabled on the Standard Shader...

 

Hi all, have you somebody tip for good working SSR and AA solution compatible with Alloy shaders?

 

@lukas-chrapek
Well PAMELA uses Unity SSRR and Amplify FXAA, so you could start there. Most packages should work with Alloy, since we use Unity's standard G-Buffer layout.

 

@n00body

Thanks for answer, I tired already both.
SSR is good but still buggy and to much shimmering and flickering of reflections and FXAA didn't solve horizontal edge reflection shimmer and that is our problem, but not here, its'n Alloy shaders problem but I thing Unity and AA.
Here is gif what I meant with that snimmer, u can see it on the floor:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52623513/VaporumGif.gif

 

@lukas-chrapek
There are only two ways to fix specular aliasing at grazing angles. You can either use our provided map packer tool to pre-bake specular AA, or you can use a TXAA package. The pre-baking option makes it free at runtime and allows sharper textures, but means you would need to convert a bunch of texture maps. TXAA is simpler since you can use unmodified assets, but it has an added cost at runtime and tends to blur everything.

 

@n00body I know about TXAA, but I didn't know about feature you wrote in map packer, I export multi-channel map from Substance Painter and then bypassing sRGB in settings. I give it try. Thanks for good advice.

 

Also @lukas-chrapek , if you have the spare perf. headroom, using a SuperSampling-AA asset (like flowfire), set to 1.2x does a lot of ameliorate specular shimmer.

 

@xenius Thanks, we will talk about it We are releasing only on PC so I think we can afford and use SSAA little bit.

 

I'm looking for a vertex blending shader that is compatible with baking Directional Specular maps. Can Alloy do this? Shaderforge cannot and from what I read, it doesn't seem like Uber does either.

 

@Josh-0
It would be helpful if you could clarify what you mean by "Directional Specular maps". Can you give me a short summary and/or a link to an explanation?

 

In the Lighting Window, you can Bake your lighting with NonDirectional, Directional, or Directional with Specular.
link:
https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/LightmappingDirectional.html

When baking my scene using Directional with Specular, the lightmaps applied to materials that use Shaderforge become dark grey and shadows aren't properly applied. So, I'm trying to find a shader that can do vertex blending, but also doesn't get messed up in the baking process.

 

@Josh-0
I would think that UBER would be able to use all of Unity's lightmap modes, since it is based on the Standard shader. Having said that, yes Alloy supports all of Unity's ambient lighting options. It has has a variety of different blend shaders, including two "vertex blending" shaders. One that uses a heightmap and vertex weights to blend between two sets of maps, and another that supports 3-4 vertex-weighted sets of maps.

Are either of those what you had in mind?

 

I'm looking for a shader that can basically blend 2-3 sets of textures using vertex blending. Each set of textures would include Albedo, Roughness, Normal, and Height (for parallax). I've done this with Shaderforge and using Quixel Megascan textures and my shader looks pretty good for the most part. I just can't bake Directional with Specular maps. It's quite frustrating to be so close to my goal yet so far away.

Unfortunately, looking at the Documention for Alloy doesn't really help me too much. I'm not too smart with the technical side, so it sounds like it might do what I need, I'm just not sure. Having already spent a ton of money on the Unity asset store, I've become very hesitant to buy any new stuff.

 

@Josh-0
Then might I suggest Amplify Shader? It's a node graph shader tool, like Shader Forge, that's relatively new and currently in beta. There's also Vertex Tools Pro which comes with a set of shaders that sound like what you described. Both internally use Unity surface shaders, so they have full access to Unity's lighting/lightmapping pipeline.

 

Hi, what happened about that issue? I have heavily specular on the terrains.

Also alloy area light still doesn't work with directional lights of any sky assets like Azure,Tenkoku or Time of Day,

 

@Crossway
There's not much we can do about RTP, since it doesn't use Unity's standard BRDF. As for those other assets, unfortunately it looks like you will need to patch them to manually retrieve the AlloyAreaLight component and directly set its ".Color" and ".Intensity" properties where they would normally set Unity's ".color" and ".intensity" fields.

I can't do much more at this juncture.

 

Hi!!
How to fix this white edge ?
( unity 5.4.1 , UBER Shader , Alloy (Need Deferred Skin) )

 

@zmaxz
Have you added the "Deferred Renderer Plus" component to the camera?

 

Hello there!
I'm having a question concerning the deferred skin shader.
Can I somehow set the transmission colour? Right now, it's dependent on the light colour, but I'd really prefer a yellowish/reddish colour.
You know, to get that kind of effect:

Or am I going wrong about this?

Also, I currently have the Transmission weight set to 0, and I sometimes get something like this:

Not sure if it's got something to do with the transmission, but it goes away if I tweak the transmission weight, or uncheck and check "Precompute Realtime GI". There is no fog activated.
It nearly always happens after play mode--normally it only flickers for a second and then goes away, sometimes it stays until I do something.
It's a harmless bug, however.

Best Regards,
Kristina Waldt

 

@KWaldt
Sorry for the delay. So let's eliminate the obvious first, did you follow all the instructions in the "Advanced Setup" section of our Getting Started instructions?

As for the Skin shader, we have a depth-based color absorption system that picks the color based on the transmission map input from the base color alpha channel. Unfortunately that is our only option right now, as our transmission system can only be monochrome to have deferred compatibility.

Does that help, or do you need further clarification?

PS. We're in the process of updating our example content to support our latest shaders. Once that is done, you can just look at the character examples.

 

Is it possible to add a transparency map to the Tessellated skin shader? I'm trying to decide if it's better to use multiple materials to my character, such as eyelashes for example, or use one material for performance. Any thoughts on that? Right now for it heads I have the skin shader for the base diffuse, a transparency shader for the eyelashes, an eye shader, and a glass shader for it's eye wetness that's under the eye...

 

@adamz
Currently there isn't a way to have separate transparency on the Skin shader. You will just have to keep those materials separate.

 

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I can for sure remove the post if u guys are so oversensetive for free opinion , thats a human right over all other. we dont need always to have same opinion

i have proven my point and hope for some improvments

yes we all do misstakes sometimes and the beta is for frontend and sometimes we need these improvments , and the beta is not that unstable ,as it is claimed thats a poor excuse .... , we dont want to waste our time .. well , instead of try helping out and try find some solutions ???

I have bought for 185$ in alloy coz I trusted in the framework ,

PS the feedback is an answer to xenius no one else ,

 

The Unity beta isn't meant as a platform for releasing content. It can be, but the beta isn't meant for that.

 

In Unity, beta isn't something that asset authors support because it changes so much. Likewise, products aren't supposed to be released with a beta version. Beta is only for testing, nothing more. So you need to change, not everyone else.

You have a right to ask for updates once 5.5 final is released. Is it released?

 

Source: https://unity3d.com/unity/beta

I believe that the goal of the beta version is mainly to get feedback about bugs, not to be used in a production pipeline. When I worked on Unity projects for a client, we were always very cautious about whether to upgrade or not.
For the 2D-Features in 5.5, they even said that it's not recommended for use--I believe other features should be approached similarly. Plus, I'm not quite sure how the asset store regulates things, but I think the developers aren't obliged to adapt to a new Unity version. For my part, I'm grateful that they have a new version available once an official version is released. (Also, adapting shaders to the new changes is normally a lot of work, and they also have other bugs and projects to work on. Setting priorities is necessary.)
Since you decided that using the beta is a risk you're willing to take, you also have to bear with the consequences.
I'm sorry for your loss, but that's no reason to rant here. The only ones looking unprofessional because of that are not the developers of Alloy, but you.
If I'm informed correctly, the beta should end at the end of next month, I wish you the best of luck to solve your problems till then, or to find a workaround at least.

@n00body Thank you for the response! I checked it, and I believe I've imported and setup everything correctly. I'm away for a few days, I might get back to you next week.

 

@KWaldt
It might be a bug then, we're trying to push out an update now that will fix a number of issues. Stay tuned for the announcement.

 

if I only could I would have , but the beta I made is not backward compatible unfortunally
so I cant make a package and import it in to 5.4 , thats the prob

 

That's a problem you created for yourself, so you are essentially trying to shift the blame to the Alloy developers for not immediately working to compensate for your mistake. I consider the Alloy developers to be among the best when it comes to ongoing support and enhancement of their assets. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of their customers feel similarly.

 

i am not trying to shift any blame , then u missunderstand , its the nevermind attitude of kids nowadays
i am admitting my misstake and ask for help yes thats correct , this is an ongoing issue whit alloy on every version update not only on betas , there is allways something with this plugin , not in compare to all my other pugins by a long run
I dont mind to give posetive feedback when that is in order , but I cant understand whats the big issue with this plugin time after time , and it is allways unity s fault or some others fault , never alloys fault. so.. feedback is not allways posetive , but it never get better if everyone dont say anything. as it seems like .. I dont mind taking the heat.

 

Please stop generalizing the rest of us who appreciate/defend the Alloy developers with the "nevermind attitude of kids nowadays" remark. Trust me, I am neither a kid nor someone with a nevermind attitude (whatever that means in this context).

I'm also pretty sure if "ongoing issues" were so rampant in "every version update" as you claim, you'd see a lot more complaints on this thread and in the asset reviews. Having legitimate challenges with an asset is one thing; blowing your individual trouble out of proportion quite another.

 

remember my friend its a free opinion world we are living in , you can certnly deisagree , thats fear enogh , then we disagree each other , we dont need allways to have same opinon , that many seems to think.
my points are not ment for u but for the dev I feedbacked to , I prefer to answer him instead then,Thanks Dan

 

Hey guys, anyone have any luck getting the skin to look at natural as possible? Sometimes I can get it looking software but other times it looks hard and unnatural.

Will hair, skin, and eyes get an update for unity 5.5? I look at other skin shader examples like Paragon, Uncharted, and Marmoset Toolbag and it seems their skin looks more natural (Probably with the HDR maps). Same with hair.

I went back to the legacy eye shader because it looked more natural with the AO maps on it (It added a feel of blood vessels). Also a real eye is less reflective on the sclera. And if anyone is using baked AO maps and you get some fringing on your textures, the darker parts of that map is causing it. So you will need to do a levels adjustment to minimize it.

 

@KRGraphics
We are always investigating new technologies for our shaders, but nothing is officially scheduled. Our current shaders are designed to work within the limitations of Unity's deferred renderer, and thus have quality and control tradeoffs that can't be avoided.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that the Legacy shaders exist solely to aid in migrating content to newer shaders, or to help games that are about to ship. These shaders are officially deprecated, unsupported, and can be cut at any time if they hinder new development.

 

I may have to find a way to get the new eyes to look like the old ones, texture wise.

 

This is the current state of one of my main characters - Leia

Deferred skin shader
Deferred eye shader
Double sided hair shader



I too have also obsessed with trying to achieve a natural skin look, many a night!

I'm by no means an expert on the subject, but I have found that so many things affect the look of the skin tone beyond the shader and I whilst I welcome any extra shader magic the guys can push our way I'm convinced the real key to natural tones is mostly in the lighting setup.

Of course amazing model's, textures etc top studio's with multi million dollar budgets will always have the best film artist's working on their characters

Hows your latest setup look @KRGraphics? interested to see

 

She is a beauty... right now I am switching to the deferred skin renderer for Alloy. My pursuit for natural feeling skin is something I want to aim for...here is my current shot... not liking it now. I was using the forward version...



I'm about to switch to the deferred renderer plus and see what happens with my shading... and I am using an HDR sky that I made in Vue

 

Looking real nice man

I think that's looking pretty good bro - high quality

 

And like all artists, I am not happy with it... once Unity 5.5 is out, I can get the full range of the scene. I am using the deferred version without the camera script.

 

Very true, I'll never be totally satisfied with my own work, I get it to a certain level of quality, then I look at it a week later and hate it, I have a long way to go myself.

I do think you're stuff is looking great tho and always improving

Really looking forward to 5.5 also

 

And I think I am getting very close to film quality too...

 

@punk @KRGraphics
I'm not sure if this will help, but you may be mistaking "natural-looking" skin for cinematic lighting on skin. Some of our other customers ran into the same problem until they realized that games like FF15 and the like have diffuse-only fill lights parented to each of their characters. This trick is inspired by how movies and TV shows always have per-scene lighting setups to draw the viewers eyes to the characters' faces.

PS. The Deferred Renderer Plus camera script is required for Deferred Skin and Transmission to work at all.

 

I totally forgot about that ... the skin looks really good now... just need to edit the textures a bit...

 

Yeah definitely and in my case that's certainly true

 

And thankfully, I have edited my eye textures to look like the original legacy shaders... and it was not easy to do...

 

Also another issue is using GI with this and unfortunately the skin gets very hollow at times. To combat this, I end up lowering the diffuse tint to a low level so the GI can do its thing. Hopefully this new progressive lightmapper will help a bit

 

Here is a new shot of Aiko with some updated skin textures... I went back to the forward version of this since I got better results with it. And the sky maps add detail to the models...