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Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by SexySidekicks, Jul 27, 2015.
Available on the Asset Store here...All Star Character Library Package
Looks good. I'm subscribing to this
Very nice library of characters. The female models seem to outshine the male (plain) models.
Do you have a list of the 200 animations?
Are the 200 animations unique, or are they re-edits of previously created animations?
What does mecanim animations mean? Does that mean these characters are setup for mecanim humanoid rig?
How are the long cloth pieces rigged/animated? If by bones, are the bones layer masked?
How are the long hair pieces rigged/animated?
Are the eyes separate mesh objects, and rigged to look around and blink via bones/morphs?
How many bones does each character use?
A video of 2-4 of the characters performing the animations would be a nice advertising component. Especially if it showed the bones while the animations were playing.
Very ambitious pack. Looks like nice quality.
theAnimator2b, Thank you for your interest, these are great questions...
females vs males:
I agree the girls look better, I seem to enjoy working on them, however some of the best sci fi models start on the male skel. In terms of the ancients...barbarians and the like, the males are more plain as they are VERY generic...that's dilerberatey so...if anything the girls are too detailed and not stereotypical enough in my opinion as they cannot fill a generic roll very easily. i have some more designs to remedy that. The general goal is to give a developer the abilty to create games or at the very least prototyping to secure project funding. There's a ton of data in here and that saves an awful lot of time for a small group of indies that may be called upon to produce a vertical slice in a short time frame. I'm a bit off topic for the question, but it does relate to the general flow...I have more designs coming soon.
200 animations are not unique..they are a matrix built upon weapon(less) states...so there's currently your VERY basic set of core animations x each weapon state and those states are as follows...
2H - 2 handed (longsword for example)
Dual - DualWield
SS - SwordAndShield
UN - unarmed
The animations for each are...
All models and animations are currently on the basic machanim skeleton
There are no extra bones for anything. In all honesty I'm a complete noob to Mech so any advice, recommendations or requests are VERY welcome.
in addition to a regular 2 spine skel with 30 finger bones, there two weapon points that are used in all animations, 3 bow bones that are only used in bow animations, a one visor bone that is only present in the knight base file(requires a layer or coded rotation)
Cloth is split between legs, with a bit of clever masking into the leg texture underneath in a few cases. The amazons specifically the second one n green seems to work "ok" but not good in my opinion.Unless someone else helps me understand a better option, I'll go an entire legacy set with full cloth support.my understanding is that if someone wants to use mechanims from another source that extra bones will not be present and present a huge problem for a coder for example.
Hair is currently rigged to the head neck and body, again...my understanding is that if someone wants to use mechanims from another source that extra bones will not be present and present a huge problem for a coder for example.
So in both cases...although those things are not rigged and animated to the best ideal methods...they are compatable with any mech-humanoid IK anims.
there are no eye bones in as yet...or other face bones...when I do add them...it will be a separate hierarchy that is linked to the head and each character will have their own facial "poses" or anims for those. This way I can have dramatically different faces.
Yeah I definately need to get the Youtube shots for each out there, but I think getting the avatar interface for doing texture comines and draw call combines needs to take precedence. the below image shows all the characters in one scene. in editor, stats is reporting 90+ fps on an Athlon II 3.2 Ghz with a GTS 250.
I think fps will increase about 40% when each characters components are combined down into one draw call. Also the Avatar interface will allevaite anyone from having to bounce back and forth between the editor and a paint program as the interface will create the users specific choices into an atlas on the fly both in editor and at runtime. But as soon as that is done, videos will be next in line.
Some additional concerns and warnings....
these are NOT normal mapped characters, currently they are hand painted.
They are not cinematic quality, these are game assets intended as high performance game assets. If I do create normals for the entire set it will be part of a High Def pack that will be a separate purchase. That's why I am calling this a system instead of a library...there are 7 components slated for development. Each is separate as not everyone needs every one of them. each component is $50. The library is the core, it is the heart of the system, all other components will require the library as a main component.
The texture source is 4096x2048, with the left half of the texture being used the the main body and the right half being used for heads, hair, eyes, extra upper body details, extra lower body details, weapons and shields I do not recommend using textures that big in an atlased system. In the "all characters scene" up top, I limited the max size in advanced texture settings to 2048, that seemed to work great. 30 characters in a scene without LOD's yet was a good indicator that I was hitting the perfornance required for a good brawl.
These do not mip map well at all, I get bleed from all over the texture when mip mapping is on. Not to mention that mip mapping in general on characters looks like muddy crap in my opinion.
Some of the female hairstyles have noticable seams when viewed up close. This was very sloppy of me, but I am trying to maximize texel density as well as line up for vertical based hair sheen shaders(aniso). The solution is obvious and that is to have darker roots at the top of the hair "strip" and then assure that all the hairstyles utilize it that way. Again these are not desinged to be High Def cinematic models, these are game assets and are purely intended as being that and only that.
Posted an alternate link(PayLoadz) to buy this library while we wait for the Unity folk to approve...(see top of page)
Hey Sidekicks - nice detail in your reply.
Check into layer masking for the extra bones. It's well worth the research time to setup a workflow you can manage to get the extra bones that will control additional pieces/bones that the base humanoid rig can't support, namely for your characters, the long cloth and hair.
As far as programmers having problems with the masked bones in addition to the base humanoid rig, I haven't ever heard that before, and I've worked on several mecanim driven projects over the past couple years.
Keep up the good work. I like the art style you create.
Very nice pack, and i like the idea of having extras like high def pack as separate purchase. Sure get this one at some point.
For starter; it's Mecanim not Mechanim, so therefore you can't shorten it to mech
theAnimator2B, yeah, I'm probably going to have support for both types of base files...ones with the extra bones and one without...doubles the amount of data but there's no solid way around it...
chelnok, thx and thx for point that one out...made me laugh, and I needed that
Just released, see up top for the Asset Store link
Someone asked if it's Unity 5 compatable...
I'm a very good store browser and somehow I missed this!
I like the models, esp. the comic book-like costuming, though I do wonder if maybe the textures are too low in resolution.
Thanks for your interest! There are 3 characters that need some more texture lovin', the long sleeved male civilian and the two sci fi officers.
I realized after I wrote it that the "low res textures" comment might seem negative, and I'm glad you didn't take it that way. What I'm thinking is that a few things might be going on here, like 1) it's handmade art, so it is going to have more of an illustrated, low res look, 2) the sample pictures and videos may not be showing the characters at their highest resolution, and 3) well, if a customer can buy these and get the same image quality with a smaller texture size, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Having the opportunity to shrink from a larger size to a smaller one is good.
As for the male characters being generic, I can agree with that, but in my opinion you shouldn't design for that. Right now you can't pick one of them out of a crowd. My preference would be to add more hair styles (like a variety of long hair types, afro, spiky hair, bald, comb over, etc.), scars, beards, racial types, dramatic expressions and so forth, so they can be individualized more and made more instantly recognizable to players. The females are somewhat more individualized, and that's great, because it lends toward their use as recognizable characters in a story, and that's an important consideration.
(I'm not saying you need to change things, I'm just speaking conceptually.)
Anyway, I do like what you've done with the pack, and I have it on my shopping list.
I agree with hopeful and will second his suggestion about hair. I think adding authentic hair styles to the guys might help individualize them a little better. Check some final fantasy concepts for some progressive leaning hair concepts.
Also it seems the female characters just have more spice and flavor to there outfits. Consider increasing the uniqueness of some of the male costumes to make them less plain and more appealing.
Anyway - this is quality work. The animations look good as well.
to Hopeful and theAnimator2b, I agree with your feedback. It's actually pretty hard to design stuff so it looks good and is generic enough to be used and re-used a lot. In addition to the facial options you described, I think color/minor variations in outfits will help this out a lot. I do agree that the civilian males lack design flair despite being generics...I've got a few ideas to help with that. So...more mens hairstyles and detailing are on the list.
Would these work with legacy animation system?
Raj, yes...they are actually created using 3.5.7 which is totally legacy...they work with all versions of Unity from 3.5.7 and up
Hey, I've been eyeing up this pack for a few days now but I can't quite tell how the outfits work from the pictures and videos.
Are they separate skinned meshes that can be turned on and off? And if so, is it possible to mix and match them?
(i.e. top of one outfit with the bottom of another, etc)
Aerozo, Excellent question! I should definately do a write up on the process. Basically the males currently have 16 prefabs and the females have 16 also. Each prefab has 5 or 6 head models for their respective bodies. The PSD files have 20+ head textures for the males and 20+ for the females. Alos in each prefab is 8 to 12 hairstyles as well as weapons. ALL elements are texture atlased so a skinned mesh combiner could crank it down to one draw call. I actually looked around for skinned mesh combiners in the public domain, but did not see any that work. The process is not rocket science, it's just rebuilding a skinned mesh from an array of elements and then running the optimize call on the resulting mesh. It's one of the many things on my list to do. As for your specific questions...I turn off weapons, heads and hairs for the those options I don't want and leave the ones I do want on. Each "outfit" prefab has a full array of those options. As far as mixing and matching...currently only the civilian females have the ability to use different uppers with different lowers, in fact their file is exported as on prefab so it's really easy to do that. I originally wanted every character to have that capability but alas, their design layouts do not permit it. If you have art knowledge...it would be VERY easy to cut and match as well as use the PSD's to do your atlas. All females share one skel, and all the males share another.
Does the characte contains the LOD versions as well? If they do could you please give us the aprox tris count for LOD versions?
What are the future releases you have in mind?
Btw: It looks nice although I must admit some more hairstyles for males would be nice.
If you are interested in controlling LOD for models, look into a plugin called SimpleLOD. It has some pretty nifty features, and it's not that expensive.
Hi SoftwareWorkshop and Hopeful,
SoftwareWorkshop, what sort of tri-counts are you looking for? Currently there are no LOD's, I think Hopeful's plugin SimpleLOD uses a progressive mesh decimation algorythem, and should work ok to a certain extent on "Some" of the models. I just did a test, to reduce one of the Amazons down to about 2.5 k, not good with that sort of algorythem. A word of warning ...not all meshes are alike, and some visual skewing is going to happen, loss of cuts at key deformation points such as elbows and kness do occur at high levels of reduction.
In answer to your question of future development...there are 4 more characters being added to this library, male astronaught, female astronaught, male SciFi pilot/guard looking character, and a female SciFi pilot/guard like looking character. Pilots "should" be accepted by the Asset Store today or tomorrow, astronaughts will probably be later next week.
I'm a little confused about the All-Star set of products. The Collection of all the characters goes for $50, while the individual characters are each sold for $30? I would expect the price of individual models to be lower.
Also, as more characters are added, should we expect the price of the Collection to increase? I hope you'll alert us to any coming price changes in this thread.
Hopeful, !!! : ) the whole collection goes for 50, individual assets are 30, not everyone wants the whole collection and I dont sell under 30 so....my logic is the other way around, I sell more at 50 and none at 30(so far) but it's there as an option. The collection price "probably" won't increase unless directed by UAS(asset store). I have some things that I want to do as far as promotional stuff with other developers...for example you have a sailing product right? I would love to provide you with male and female surfers in exchange for a message "characters provided by SexySidekicks.com and are part of the All Star Character Collection found here..." kind of deal. I could actually get you said assets within days if you are interested. Conversly I would give you props for your sailing software in the surfer renders...
Okay, that's good news! I always wanted the whole collection anyway. Still saving up for it.
I was wondering, looking at the price ratio, if the characters sold separately had additional features that the ones in the Collection lacked. It's good to know they are identical models.
(BTW, in case anyone is curious, I don't actually have a sailing product. He's just giving an example of how he'd work with other asset store developers.)
Hi Hopeful, Sorry to hear you dont have the sailing product....I was really into doing something with that! Solo assets are not identical...it's actually the other way around...the ones in the collection have a LOT more options as they have they ability to share with each other vs the solo ones do not have that option.
SoftwareWorkshop, would you consider Diablo'ish rendered sprite animation as a viable solution as opposed to simple triangle count reduction? For consideration
(I prefer 16 directions for sprites, as it's very smooth)
at 32x32 450 frames works out to be 1.3 megs of texture space per direction
at 64x64 450 frames works out to be 2.2 megs of texture space per direction
at 128x128 450 frames works out to be 8.1 megs
Note these figures use different storage an implementation techniques and could be reduced by 50% were we to be clever.
Thanks for the screenshots and detailed reply to my last question.
From a coding perspective, it's quite easy to move skinned meshes between FBX files as long as they have the same skeleton, so mixing and matching should be doable with some wizardry on my end.
The only thing I'm wondering now is, how are the outfits attached to the characters? Are they normal skinned meshes that go on top of the base character mesh or are there arms and other body parts that are fused to the top and bottom half of the outfits? (i.e. if I turn off all the outfits in a character, will I end up with a naked character or nothing on the screen at all?)
Do the animations have root motion, so they work correctly with Mecanim?
Aerozo, only a very few commercial games have ever been made using clothing on top of base bodies...problems of clipping, overdraw and mainly performance are the reason for that. The ones that do only have a couple of characters on screen at any given time(or they swap out for baked ones for more complex scenes) So in answer to your question, if you turn of the bodies all that remains is the head and neck, hair and weapons. If I follow what your path of action wants to be...you can really only do that with the civilian females without having to get into some mesh editing outside of Unity. If there is a specific combination that you would like to be setup...even if just to see what it would look like , please let me know, it's a very simple process to add a mix and match data file into this product.
Jaimi, Hi...no root motion, Mecanim "may" use root motion to create game motion, however your conclusion that root motion is neccesary to use mecanim "correctly" can be construed somewhat incorrectly as it insinuates that any animation for any game that does not have root motions in animations is incorrect, which is most certainly not true. Not nagging, just pointing out a minor gotcha in your paraphrasing. For the longest time, I wanted animators to be able to control velocites and jump heights in animations but now that I am heavily into coding....I find myself wanting the opposite...particularaly with regards to speed and varying jump heights and distances. Other examples would include, shall we say...less predictable movement types : ) At the time of reading your post, I have already wished I had created two versions of this product...your post just makes me want to do that more...if that happens the alternate variant would need to be Unity V5 so as to accomodate other V5 features for a more "Deluxe" version (use of render textures for specific facial detailing for example) I should also point out, that adding an "appliedRootMotion" folder to the project with root motion applied for 200 animations is not particularly difficult to do and would be something I would provide in the product for a client, should they request it
Point taken. However, Mecanim is made for Root motion, and to control speed without it takes a lot of work. For controlling the speed, It's usually just easier to modify the animation speed, and let Mecanim handle the rest. Looking forward to your Root Motion version.
Agree with @Jaimi here.
Turning off root motion for a character with root motion is a lot simpler than creating root motion for a character that doesn't have it.
Consider non-coders purchasing the set. They may attempt to work through setting up root motion for the characters or request a refund.
In my opinion adding root motion to the characters would increase sales.
Which software package are you using for animation creation?
Max - biped has a very handy 'in-place' mode which removes root motion with one button. Very nice for creating animations with root motion, then turning it off to view and export without root motion, if needed.
Well, I was thinking about 2.5-3.5. My games are mainly mobile oriented which means I have to be very carefull when it comes to tri-counts. I've got some decimation plugin already but the results are not always good.
I was thinking more about future set of products. You mentioned earlier that you are going to have 4 more products. I was wondering what is it going to be. Some themed sets maybe?
Jaimi and theAnimator2b, I will begin creating root motion based animations today, will let you know when the work is completed as well as post a complete list of new animations that have not as yet been posted. Expect the work to take 5 days + an additional 5 days for UAS to accept the changes (so mid September)
Support for mobile is something I have always intended to implement for the library, so work will commence on that front as well. There are 36 characters to create them for, so the work will be posted weekly and more than likely take a full month to get them all done. This also gives me a shot to go through and break off any and all potential swappable elements, combine similar "seamed" bodies to allow for the addition of other characters in the library
The third round of updates will be more Male hairstyles including facial hair, and longer hairstyles
Marius, future products all of which will be sold separately include: a second library (Villains), HD pack, FPS Arms, and an advanced control system with mini games,
Villains sounds good.
I guess you got me convinced with the statement that there is going to be a mobile version
Will grab it later.
Marius, Just finished mesh work on the Amazon Archer's main body...I could be lazy...attach her hair, head dress, tunic and furs as is.... and she would be 2215...I will not be lazy..... and will knock all that stuff down as well, which will bring her just under 2k tri's. I will jump head first into a speeding locomotive before I go lower than that : ) ...she looks great...will post a shot later tonight after all the texture and uv work is done. One more thing...if you are interested in a particular set...shall we say...ancient females...ancient males...scifi males...sci fi females etc etc ....p[lease inform me on this thread so that I may assign a higher priority to the work on that particular set.
I like the idea of the HD pack and Villains, though I'm not sure what to expect.
added Pilot/Guard characters