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[AI] Elite Dangerous AI goes Skynet

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Arowx, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. Arowx

    Arowx

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    Article -> http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/06/03/...ns-and-started-hunting-players-skynet-is-here

    Summary:

    Elite Dangerous introduce AI, AI players exploit bug allowing them to maker super weapons and go Skynet, wiping out actual players.

    A combination of an upgrade to the AI system and the addition of Engineering or Crafting, allowed the AI NPC's to generate weapons that the designers did not expect, in effect super weapons.

    Is this a warning for the future, a simple bug allows AI to go rogue hmm???

    Googles DeepMind AI or IBM's Watson + 3D Printing?!
     
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  2. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    You just better hope they don't go after those warning us about the potential threat. You might be among the first victims. ;)

    Seriously though that's just awesome and I find myself in agreement with one of the commenters who suggested that emergent behavior like that from AIs can sometimes make the game more enjoyable. At least for a short while.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
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  3. Fissll

    Fissll

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    IMO a good AI should do something unexpected and exploit bugs.
    If the AI wouldn't do something like that, it shouldn't be called intelligence :D.
     
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  4. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    It didn't go rogue, it just did what it was program to, which is more worrisome than a sentient human like ai (see the toothpick paradox).
     
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  5. Arowx

    Arowx

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    Not sure if I will be able to find it but there was a game that used genetic algorithms (generational play) and neural networks, I think it was called Creatures. It had positive and negative reinforcement and was great fun (like an advanced tamagotchi).

    But apparently the company that developed this technology managed to get a contract to work with the RAF, the RAF probably thought it would be a fun way to improve their combat flight simulators. Until the evolving and adapting pilot 'critters' started doing immelman turns and picking up advanced dog fighting techniques and beating the pilots!

    Apparently the research was canned!

    Creatures -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_(video_game_series)
     
  6. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Black & White used a variety of AI techniques for the player's creature.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Evans_(AI_researcher)
     
  7. KnightsHouseGames

    KnightsHouseGames

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    To me thats poor game design though, if you don't want players breaking the rules, you don't want your AI breaking them either.

    If I had had something like this happen though, I probably would have turned it into a storyline though, and made it all .hack esque

    Oh dear god.....so you are telling me computer pilots are now better than human pilots? And we are working on automated UAVs?

    Has no one at Darpa seen Teminator or Battlestar Galactica? Or have they seen it and just want to watch the world burn....?
     
  8. Arowx

    Arowx

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    Check out the link this was in the 1990's. Think about it fly a plane with a computer, no G limits, massive weight reduction (life support/ejection/HUD/Controls) and much faster processing/response time.

    Also have you heard of the memristor, the fourth electrical component that has never quite arrived even though things started hotting up about around 2008 (wikipedia).

    In theory a memristor works in a very similar way to the neurons in our brains, remembering what it stores and responding to inputs. It could provide a massive breakthrough in computing, as it would massively drop the energy needs of mobile devices and boost startup times to near instant.

    And it could also pave the way for adaptive computing, where the very chips can be adapted on the fly to do different tasks. As well as boosting AI research and development.

    Is the memristor being held back?
     
  9. Fissll

    Fissll

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    Maybe some years ago the AI pilots became more and more intelligent and eventually took over the world.
    They then used these memristor things to build super computers and hooked mankind into a massive simulation.
    Welcome to the matrix ...
     
  10. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    I think memristor (and memcomputing) is hold back by a lack of theoretical understanding for generalized application (ie how you programmed it), we just the theoretical framework that say it should work (ie prove that it is a universal computing paradigm like turing machine). it work theoretically like the brain but not practically (at least not yet).

    the memristor seems to be held back (from what I understand) by lack of implementation details of the problem mention above (else it's basically a Dram slighty modified).

    There is also a problem of precision due to natural electric interference as it is an analogue system that operate on frequency and amplitude, noise kills it!
     
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  11. KnightsHouseGames

    KnightsHouseGames

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    Yeah, of course, planes are better at flying themselves, but should we really build an impossibly good fighter pilot who you effectively can't kill because he lives in code, who is programmed spesifically to kill people? That seems like some scary territory that could easily go wrong



    As far as this Memristor thing, that article is way above my paygrade, I don't really understand the spesifics, but your explaination sounds pretty interesting. I just feel like programming for something like that would require a pretty huge paradigm shift, as, from my limited understanding, it seems like memory management would have to change completely. Computer architechture in general would probably change. Perhaps this is why progress on it has slowed?

    Also, the name Memristor sounds like something from Tron or something, ha ha
     
  12. KnightsHouseGames

    KnightsHouseGames

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    Well, at least now I know how we would kill the rouge fighter jets

    Looks like Skrillex is useful for something after all.
     
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  13. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    Memristor is also above my level, but I think part of it is because it's because all the metaphor are academic's. Wait till they vulgarize it and organize the theory into best practice, I'm sure turing machine as explain as soon it was invented would have left the layman scratching their head to oblivion.

    But yes it's an entirely different paradigm, as far all "code" I have seen weren't "code" but physical cabling to encode a problem. The way I turn in a metaphor is that it seems to work like a complex version of multiple connected flasks, where the water try to minimize it's energy level as given by the problem (ie find the optimal configuration) now how do you jump from that (if true) to encoding any problem, I don't know :oops:

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    
  14. JamesLeeNZ

    JamesLeeNZ

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    5,618
    awesome.

    my ai isnt too smart, but its annoyingly accurate with its weapons

    'oh, im gonna play with this vehicle for a while *bam bam bam* or not...'
     
  15. Arowx

    Arowx

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Posts:
    7,098
    Good point even a simple but accurate AI player could be a nightmare in a computer game, imagine space invaders or storm troopers that could shoot straight.

    GAME OVER
     
  16. JamesLeeNZ

    JamesLeeNZ

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    5,618
    Definitely. Considering its fully physics based its not toooo hard to avoid projectiles, as the aiming is based on speed and vector. Change either and it will likely miss. Aiming for the player is automatic as well though, so it makes it fair in that respect
     
  17. ChrisSch

    ChrisSch

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Posts:
    763
    There's a lot of those, not necessarily games, but AI projects (sometimes in game shape) where the AI evolves through generations until it does what it was meant to do perfectly. And yeah that's one of them. :)

    PS. I fking love AI. xD
     
  18. KnightsHouseGames

    KnightsHouseGames

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Posts:
    818
    pssst....I think he's one of them o_o

    Have you seen Mar.io? That is kind of amazing.
     
  19. ChrisSch

    ChrisSch

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Posts:
    763
    Haha no I didn't.

    I spent some time really interested in self-learning AI, but it ended fast as I don't have time to go down that rabbit hole right now. :D
     
  20. KnightsHouseGames

    KnightsHouseGames

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Posts:
    818
    Basically Mar.io is an AI bot someone wrote that effectively taught itself how to beat a level of Super Mario World

     
  21. Fissll

    Fissll

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Posts:
    70
    And don't forget the video in which the AI finds a bug which the creator didn't know about (and he loves super mario bros).
     
  22. BIG-BUG

    BIG-BUG

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Posts:
    456
    I'm pretty sure that Elite Dangerous thingy is not a bug in the AI itself nor is it a bug which was "found" by the AI.
    Probably weapon stats values are just not cleared properly when an AI changes/upgrades it's weaponry.

    Of course an evolving AI is a far more interesting topic :rolleyes:
     
  23. ChrisSch

    ChrisSch

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Posts:
    763
    Right I did see Mar.io! So cool. xD
     
  24. Arowx

    Arowx

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Posts:
    7,098
    There you go automated game Q&A!
     
  25. darkhog

    darkhog

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Posts:
    2,219
    Game Question and Answer?

    Anyway, man I wish I had ED to try those murderous AI out. Too bad I can't afford it (also don't want to waste monies on something that will eventually be broken when the servers go down as even singleplayer depends on connection to servers).
     
  26. neoshaman

    neoshaman

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Posts:
    4,212
    The talos principle did that for their game, I think it's an existing idea to run bot through the game to test it.