Acceptable UV maps?

Hello everyone,

I have been browsing the Unity forums for a long time and took time to register earlier today. I've decided to post this question in this specific forum because I am not promoting anything, or working on anything as of yet.

I spent a good portion of today working on a head model to UV map, and texture for this first post of mine. So what I have here is not an object I've spent a lot of time on. I'm looking for input from the Unity community, especially those who make content for their own games, and for other projects that Unity users have started.

I'm not new to 3D modeling, texturing, or animation. My question is primarily for those who have worked with UV mapping, and what they consider acceptable for Unity projects. I'd very much like to start making content for the entire community to use. However before I start I would appreciate feedback. Any feedback, and tips would be very much welcomed.

Here is what I have been working on (should be available through attachments).

My personal goal is produce free content for the Unity community. I understand that to produce said content I need to provide adequate data (i.e: Model, diffuse map, normal map). I want to provide strong content that everyone can use. I have no screen tests of my content working inside of Unity (I have been using the free version of Unity though). All of the models, textures, and UV maps I have created have worked inside of Unity regardless of their UV map structure. Automatic mapping, a feature available in many programs, and in my case, Autodesk Maya, has been functional, although for this post I have not presented you with a UV map that was structured off of automatic mapping.

For this post however I have spent the day making a new 3D head, and have UV mapped, and textured it. I want your honest input of the UV map. The model itself, has some issues with topology. There should be no triangles, I made sure that I worked in quads, and that my topology was uniform. My eyes may have missed something, however I believe that it is fine with exception to a few... areas... near the jaw of the face model.

Anyways, I believe an attachment is available to this post. It is a PNG file. I welcome everyone to respond with any feedback. I very much look forward to contributing to the Unity community, and your personal Unity projects. I take my work seriously, and want to contribute very much.

Thank you for reading,

-Austin.

P.S

If you would like more information, please request it. I have provided all that I believe will be helpful to answering my concerns. Also, I have no previous work available for publication. I would need to work on more models to present you with something other than what I have provided through my attachments.

 

Good work, exactly how it should be done.

 

Demostenes,

Thank you. I have had concerns however that my UV maps, specifically humanoid heads should have a flat, or... map like quality instead of what I've come to refer to as "butterfly wings." I guess that it would depend on user preference. I know of examples that are not my own work that demonstrate what I mean. I've come to realize that when selecting seems, that based on selected seems that it will unfold in a particular way. I was unsure if the maps I have provided as examples would have been able to meet the requirements of experienced Unity users. Currently, I am glad to know that they should. If they are "exactly how it should be done".

Since I have UV mapped this example humanoid head in a very similar fashion that I would an inanimate object such as a chair, or a tree I am currently inspired to continue with my goals. Again, thank you

 

Picture is worth a million words, i have done lots and lots of tutorials and still doing more , and not once come across a head unwrapped quite like that. Thanks you , you just taught me more than you realize

 

Willc,

Thank you very much. Currently I am working on building a library of reference textures that I can use to texture objects. I'm glad that, if the UV maps here are up to standard that I can produce texture maps utilizing my personal library of texture assets. Most being 4,096, by 4,096 (real high resolution square photos.)

Notes:

I have a few details to add, that I had missed in my original post. My model has no ears... I decided to not model the ears since it would have taken more time. Usually, the ears are presented as separate UV's in a UV set like the one I presented.

Poly-count... This head wasn't made for a real-time environment. It can run in a real-time environment but I'm guessing it isn't exactly as low poly as one might expect for such an environment. For the purposes of the post I wanted to provide detail.

The model has normal maps as well. The screen I provided displays textures at a resolution of 1,024 by 1,024.

Thank you,

Austin.

 

I think you should allocate a little more uv space to the facial area but other than that, its good, can't really see areas of improvement. I'd probably have merged the top of the hair, but that's personal preference.

 

I definately agree with you hippo about the face for details in a texture ....but , im very impressed with the seam that is used on that model... definately added into my workflow now

 

Hippocoder,

I agree. I've been trying to work on moving more UV's, and have been sewing UV edges to allow more space per tile. I've had issues with the mouth, and eyes in particular. UV smoothing, and relaxing have come in handy for taking care of problem UV's. The lattice tool has also helped for moving, and sewing UV's to look more... proper.

I haven't have any issues rendering in a real-time high quality preview in Maya though. I would often find overlapping UV's to be an issue. As of now they haven't been much of a concern. Much of which I attribute to having not used automatic mapping ;P

To be honest though I never did experience many problems with auto-mapping. Just the occasional complaint that it was like "Trying to read ancient Hieroglyphs!"

 

More space should be towards the facial area, all the resolution is on the back of the head where its useless.

Really, what you should do is decompile the models in a game like Half-Life 2 or Unreal 3. Look at how they UV map.

Also, the UV mapping tools in 3DS max are better than Maya's. For serious UV mapping I'd definately take it to 3DS, it does have functionality that will make the laying out of organic UV's many times easier. Really the only reason to use maya in a game production pipeline is for rigging and animating, other than those two things Max does everything else better that youd need (Modelling, UVing, texture baking, rendering).

 

Yeah, that's a nice UV for a human head.

Beefing up the space available for the face itself might wind up being beneficial.

 

Eem,

I have seen, read, and heard so many good things about 3ds Max throughout the years, especially in the 2012 version. However I have never used 3ds Max. I might find purchasing a standalone license without subscription while I still have an active subscription with Digital-Tutors to be a good idea though. For now anything I work on will revolve strictly around Maya.

 

Skin modifier in max 2012 is broken, so ensure you install all patches and updates if you want to correctly use it. Being licensed for 12, will usually license you for all the past versions too, so you can fall back to stable 11 if you like.

 

I agree with Farfarer, it is good as is; but if you want to improve it, shrink the hair area, where you won't need as much texture, and enlarge the face area, giving you more resolution in that area.

 

Another thing to consider is, depending on the model needs, you can actually split the model in half, and overlap the two sides, which will give you better resolution. This is great for the texture painting, but not so much for baking in texture details. (depending on what your baking tho really).

 

As a professional with some experience may i say that seams are far less important than UV distortion.

I lay out my maps with UV distortion kept to as close to zero as possible. Seams are easy to fix. Being able to paint exactly what you want and have no stretching or compression is more important.

I have attached some samples. I will add another two images on the next post too.

 

You see the fact is that it is very important to get the same amount of density and also the least amount of ditortion. For games I have loser expectations, due to the fact that mip maps sometimes ruin things, although if you keep your colors correct these should be no problem (smudge the texture at the UV edges outwards - at least).

 

As a professional with some experience may I say "What? Really? That's insane".

I'd never unwrap a head with a UV split down the centre unless I was mirroring the texture. Not even for non-game stuff. Your method seems madness to me. The idea is to hide seams where they won't be noticed - not introducing multiple seams to the most important part of the head mesh model.

Doing that brings all kinds of painting, mip and baking issues that just aren't necessary. The UV distortion in those areas is far more easily managed than all the other issues doing things your way brings up.

I really don't recommend the OP uses this method, especially for games.

 

You are doing OK, the only thing you need to add to your workflow to achieve an evenly spaced UV layout is to employ a checkered pattern on your material before creating your texture maps. A pattern like this will help you distribute UVs evenly.
Reference (not images of mine, I did a quick Google search for you) for what I'm talking about:
The checkered pattern (use a larger, more dense pattern depending on your job):
http://www.clker.com/cliparts/3/b/9/9/11949893441012132368pattern-checkers-1.svg.med.png
What you need to achieve (evenly spaced UVs):
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process/horse_process/horse_checker_uv_layout.jpg
What you need to avoid (different scale squares, square distortion, etc):
http://www.shadoweagles.com/CharacterTutorial/website/images/screenshots/uvMapping/step_38_b.jpg
Take care...

 

my quote says it all. check out our websites. decide for yourself who is the more competent texture artist.

 

To the OP... If you use Koyima's workflow (correct me if I'm wrong, but he must use a sculpting/texturing app like ZBrush, Mudbox, 3DCoat) as Koyima mentions, seams are less of a concern. UVs spacing should be even. Scaling should be evaluated on a per case basis depending on the amount of detail for a specific zone.
By the way, great Art, Koyima...

 

Even for painting with photoshop, distortion is more important.

When you have next to zero distortion, what you paint on the flat surface of the texture is what you get on the model.
If you see the chaos head you will see that the top of the head is all one big seem to the back of the neck, but it doesn't matter because both sides match perfectly , the thickiness of a line on ones side is exactly the same as on the other. This makes it a lot easier to fix seams and paint stuff.
I don't advocate cutting up your model down the middle, but that distortion - as you will find out - is a pain to work with and that the UV in the OP will have plenty of distortion. I would avoid the OP's method of UVing because I want to paint exactly what I want and I prefer a seam to distortion.

Just put a checker map on it and you will see how distorted the face is.

Also I suggest your checker map has as many checkers as your texture has pixels. So for a 1024x1024 texture, I would put a 1024 checker. I can post more examples of characters I have done if you want.

 

Well that's mirrored, which I wasn't speaking out against (although it is used in an engine that doesn't support mirrored normal maps).

Nor was I speaking out against your texturing skill or debating who was the more competent texture artist.

Just that the unwrapping method you use for heads seems mad and impractical - especially for use in games.

And as this is a game forum, suggesting that the OP, who is making game models, use the method you exampled (which works in pre-rendered stuff but still seems impractical even then) seems to be missing the point.

 

I am not going to debate this. Everyone makes their own decisions. You do what you want to do to achieve what you want to achieve. I gave my advice and backed it up with images.

 

C'mon, no need to get grumpy, folks!

What we're talking about here is an artistic technique...
There is no 'right' way or 'wrong' way, as long as you get the results you want.

Some ways may be easier for some people's ways of thinking and working; that's what makes for artistic differences and styles.

I personally think you should be aware of seams and distortion both, and use them as tools.
For example, sometimes I WANT a distortion.
Sometimes the effect you want is that the texture gets stretched out. Sometimes not.
I've even had a couple of instances in the past where a UV seam was kept uncleaned, because it gave an interesting effect.

Trying to make yourself 'right' on this issue just makes you seem like that horrible art teacher that almost everyone's had at one time or another. The one who tried to force everyone's projects to come out the same, 'proper,' way?

Throw your opinion into the ring, sure, but let's not try to make someone else's wrong, eh?

 

exactly why I am not debating it. Do what you want. I showed what I wanted to show, take it leave it makes no difference to me.why i was called crazy is a whole other story

 

I can contribute a little, as I'm quite fond of the UV layout process...
UVs are practically your 3D model's vertices laid out over a bi-dimensional space which will use said vertices' position as references to map an image over your model's surface.
To place these vertices over the UV layout space you need a way to transfer them from their 3D position to a 2D position. For this, you use primitives that surround your 3D model and project -from the inside or origin of the primitive to the primitive's faces- your 3D model's vertices. The projected information on the primitive's faces is now 2D and gets transferred to the UV layout space, where you can select the vertices (now called UV points in the UV layout) and place them as you see fit. For this process, your 3D software lets you choose which primitive to use, depending on what part of your model you want to dissect, i.e. you could use a cylinder around one of your character's legs, use a plane to get the projection for a building's facade, etc. This projection process is what many call "unwrapping." Remember preschool, when the teacher would give you a cardboard cube with its faces laid out as a cross so you could glue some sides, bend them and obtain a fully formed cube? Well, this is exactly the same thing, backwards...

After unwrapping your model, you need to adjust your vertices position to correctly map an image without distortion. Also, you need to consider seams, which are the parts where your UVs cannot be connected as they are in 3D space due to the 2D nature of the unwrapping workflow. Remember the preschool cube laid out as a cross? The seams would be the cross' edges. Why consider seams? If you are using Photoshop or other image editing software, chances are that you won't get the same texture pattern at the seams since it's a linear process and it would be very hard to pair the seam edges. The result is a very distinct thin line at the seams of your model. If you have Maya, there is a clone stamp tool that you could use exactly the same as Photoshop's clone stamp tool to get rid of these seam lines... only Maya's tool is used directly on your 3D model. Now, there are more modern solutions like ZBrush and Mudbox that can help you get extremely clean seams... practically invisible.

Ok, so once you have unwrapped and considered seams, it's time to actually position your UVs on the layout space. This process involves first mapping a checkered texture to your model's material color node, slot, or whatever is called within your 3D package. When you go to you UV layout space, there should be an option to display your checkered texture as your UV layout space background. Why do we use a checkered texture? So you can have a visual reference on how another image mapped to your 3D object would behave along its surface. Now you can begin separating, stitching, scaling, positioning, etc. your UVs and edges over the UV layout space. You will be able to see the results immediately over your 3D model. Once the layout is done, you can begin your color map creation process...

 

I don't think anything got anywhere remotely uncivil here. Also, calling someone's method crazy isn't the same as calling someone crazy. Let's not be hypersensitive now.

 

Hey, I just said your UV method seemed mad to me and I backed it up with why I think that.

You're the one that decided to start calling my artistic abilities into question.

 

koyima,

I very much like your work. Thank you for contributing. So far I've tried importing uvs into a blank Unity project with a single mesh. I've been able to import normal maps as well using Maya's automatic mapping, and manually unwrapping the object for sculpting. The only hard thing to do with auto-mapping is to texture.

What I know from what I've been working on for the past day is that Maya and Unity display the same quality texture for whichever unwrap option I've selected. I wouldn't use auto-mapping for games or personal work, always a manual task of course . I can add seems further down the forehead, and up from the base of the neck to the lips for a similar outcome. Afterwards I can use my lattice tool to move and scale uv points. The next time I try it I will try and expand the face uvs.

I'll need to get to work on something very soon to get more feedback. When I have an improvement to show I will update here.

Thank you all for your responses.

Edited: Tasarran,

I agree with what you said. It seems I am getting similar outcomes no matter how I unwrap the model. I've tried adding seems where they don't seem to fit, and can usually get a good sculpt going on after the model has been unwrapped. I'm not finding much of importance for any specific UV layout other than what works best for the person when texturing.

 

Mirror mirror mirror! altho it will make both sides the same you get to dubble your size so realy i think its worth it, onless you have something on the other side that is difernt to the other sid of the face.

 

You'll start seeing differences in the textures depending on what details you use, and where they end up. That's where distortions can drive you nuts. Unwrapping is skill, and art, as you can approach similar models in very different ways, and still have excellent results. At the end of the day, if your happy with it, (and maybe if your employed, and your boss is happy with it too) that's really what matters, but learning to nitpick things to get the best result tends to save you a lot of time in the long run.

 

I didn't question your abilities, I just left the OP decide who to listen to based on his criteria, he checks portfolio and decides. you said "that's insane", so clearly I have the right to respond. I didn't call you insane, nor your methods, I didn't say anything about you, I just pointed to a method of comparison. He might like Farfarer's stuff more, I dind't even mention Farfare's comment, I just pointed to results, if that is hypersensitive, maybe you are reading into stuff or maybe someone else is hypersensitive.

You see when I met my mentor, I understood I had to listen to what he had to say, because of his abilities, not because of what he said. (baking benefits so much from undistorted UVs you won't even imagine, especially when you are looking for that sharp crispness, perfect normals etc).

Anyway I just had to respond to the comment about hypersensitivity, it's ridiculous, I not only gave my advice (which he is not obligated to follow), but put my work out there to back it up. Did anyone else do that? Is it a sign of hyper-sensitivity? It's easy just writing about how stuff should be done.

I didn't criticize other people's responces, I laid my opinion and my work out there, I said:" As a professional with some experience may I". How much experience you can understand by going to my blog or my company site and I said "may I".
Thanks for letting me say what I think Farfarer, I guess I deserve to be the only one to defend my opinion with words, images and quoted posts, while everyone else says: it's great, leave it like that or just give the face some space. No problem.

Nobody else got criticized for their insightful comments on the OP.

I'm not going to respond to any further comments on this thread, the OP can get what he wants from the previous responses and this comment here by larvantholos:

 

A wise man once told me that its not how steady your hand is but the techniques you know.

that isent why you listen to people its because of there techniques(wich generaly make skill) its like a sportsman they are obviously better then ther coach but they listen to them to learn techniques.

I think you and FarFarers textures are just as good as each other you haven realy done any in the same style so its impossible to tell.

 

Great! You know how start a workflow that produces the best performing asset as a final product then say so and leave the protectionism off the table. The defense of oneself only leads to useless battles and collateral damage. I know you are concerned with performance issues as the end result. State that without beating your chest or battle drums. We all have the best and worst to offer. I choose not to feed the angry wolf.

 

A few years ago seams were a real problem. Textures were in the 256 to 512 range and partial pixels really showed. Normal maps caused seams to be even more visible. Now... I can not spot seams even when I look close when using a 2k map. Therefore... I would go with flatter unwraps and less worry about seams. (Seams still matter for realtime tesselation)

I've seen some pros unwrap a head, and they put a cut across the face over the eyebrows. That way it follows any wrinkles and stays away from cutting any painted hair. It allows the face to unwrap to a square better, too. Especially for faces, I see people tend to allow more stretching than I'd ever normally allow elsewhere. Perhaps thats legit, but go ahead and try painting pores on a badly distorted area and see how that goes.

TLDR for a face I'd do a mix of paying attention to seams and distortion. Swearsoft's unwrap is actually good in my opinion, and even then it does have some distortion around the scalp seams-- So its a good mix.

Another thing to consider is the use of texture space. I hate voids of wasted detail. Sometimes I'll unwrap stuff in such a way as to make the parts easier to pack into UV space. Stuff I could have left whole, but would be long awkward shapes should be cut.

I know max. But you know what I love most for UV mapping? 3dCoat because of its interactive mapping technique. Here's how it works: You draw seams on your mesh. Once a piece is enclosed by seams, it becomes an island. Mouse over it as you work and you see it automatically flattened in the side window in real-time. The island is gray where flat, red where compressed and blue where stretched. You want to avoid red. You can cut relief cuts or continue chopping at it until you get it how you want it. Only when all of your islands are ready do you hit the Unwrap button and it takes the islands and arranges them in UV space. 3dCoat does a great job of this. Then I close and weld any relief cuts and make any adjustments I need. Here's a hint: Avoid filling in holes or U shaped areas because often an LOD's lower polycount will cause shortcutting across those areas and you get overlap.

Amen.

 

so close!!!

you want to maximize texel density..period, regardless of render type.

A couple of days ago, I found my : "Perfect Male Mesh", and my "Almost perfect" UV unwrap.

Spoiler: master head UV's

combine the rest of your character, and even at 2k, pretty fair density.

see.

[Maya LT]
separate the mesh. head above the neck, merge the inner eye flesh, inner mouth flesh.(all the little parts).
Best keep in separate UV shells; Tongue, teeth, eyelashes, (any other mesh need to have separate shells.)

Why?..maximize space..and creating a universal UV standard is quite handy.(see pic below)

Pin the UV Edges: top , left and right edges, edges around the mouth/ears.
Cut a seam in that edge and a little up the the center back.

now un-wrap. keeping the shells edges pined, enlarge the important features (like the face), smooth out, it will take shape quickly...just fine tune with your UV tools.

You will never have a high quality texture/materials, that is mirrored.(for life-like reproductions).I just spent 4 days, re-UV'ing a purchased model with 4K PBR Textures, stunning Unwrap and UV layouts...but.

I cant have the exact same wear and tear, dirt, oil grime, Numbers, stickers, etc, on both sides!!

anyway I digress...

don't believe me?

Spoiler: It's not just my opinion..hundreds..of ready to go textures

So, here lies my gathered evidence of the perfect ratio of UV space to texel density.
I was convinced.

Are you?

Patrick

 

Did you even look at the date before you decided to necro an argument that was done five years ago?

 

relevance is subjective? or...whoops