Search Unity

  1. Megacity Metro Demo now available. Download now.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Unity support for visionOS is now available. Learn more in our blog post.
    Dismiss Notice

A Unique Starflight-y Game

Discussion in 'Works In Progress - Archive' started by CarterG81, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Thank you very much. These posts really motivate me to keep the dev diary going and to keep on posting the updates/images.

    I'm a bit busy with family since it's almost July 4th, so I will have to get back to you later. I greatly appreciate the PM, it means a lot to hear from people who want to see this game completed.
     
  2. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Breaking News: I have officially added a full time artist to the team.

    While people seem to enjoy my artwork, and the style will remain the same, I am not a professional artist and do not have that experience. It also takes me upwards of 6 hours to create a single room of the ship, so environmental graphics are slow for me. This artist is significantly faster and much more talented, experienced, and professional.

    This leaves me free to focus on design and programming. It also will mean a significantly more enhanced atmosphere for the ship graphics and planet graphics. She knows a lot more about the artistic approach than I do. For example, I have no idea what color theory is, while she knows all about it. Artsy stuff like that. Like I said before, I don't consider myself an artist.

    This is big news, as my estimate was 1-2 months on the art alone for me because of how long it was taking me to do things alongside the list of art assets required. With her on the team, that is 2+ months quicker to release! Not to mention better graphics.

    Here is her deviant art link, which will eventually update with all of her pixel art (but currently there is no pixel art for the game uploaded yet, as I just gave her permission today to upload things after my approval.)
    http://aleraianprincess.deviantart.com/


    I will be working with her closely to make sure the style remains the same, but overall I am very pleased with her work.


    On a new topic, I also look forward to expanding the team further with an additional programmer.
    Currently I have been working on the game's design with another person with more experience in design and programming, and have plans to add him later to do some of the more complex programming while I pull the project together. He will also be doing the music for the game, as his style is just what I have been looking for.

    So as of now, you can expect this project to become a team of three professionals, with me being the least professional of them. Hahaha :p

    Without further ado, here is a side by side comparison of my 6+ hour creation of a Teleporter room, and her 1+ hour drawing of the same room from scratch.



    Mine, drawn at the wrong perspective. (I cannot tell you how bad it looks when the character is moving Left/Right. Idk what I was thinking... Ugh!)

    TeleporterSoFar.png

    Hers, which she did by herself without much influence from me:

    transporterroom3.png


    Notice the correct topdown perspective. Also take note that it took me 6+ hours, but her only 1+ hours to do something better.

    In the end, the amount of time I'd have to spend making the game WITHOUT the artist is simply...

    UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!

     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
    FancifulFox and WermHat like this.
  3. WermHat

    WermHat

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Posts:
    88
    Of course! Definitely take your time, have fun with the family and enjoy the holiday. Once things settle down I look forward to hearing from you :)

    And I'm really excited about the progress you made team-wise! Although I did think your artwork was stellar (last space pun for now, I promise!) I'm sure you're glad to be able to focus on other things. And if it means getting the game finished even quicker, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is glad to hear the news!
     
  4. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    After discussing the design with others, I have agreed that it is best if there is more to each Species than just different graphics or small boosts to certain professions. Instead, they will each have a sort of special ability which complements the player's missions.

    For example, (this isn't confirmed design, but an idea I like) the Gummi species will not be able to die by animal attacks because of their gelatinous nature. Well, unless eaten whole I guess, haha. However, they will melt quickly when hit by sentient attacks (energy weapons). Maybe something akin to "Can't be Stunned", which can also be a good/bad thing. Somehow incorporating that into the gameplay. Likewise, perhaps an energy creature (will o' wisp type species) will provide a fail-safe solution when a teleporter malfunctions, encouraging the player to send a wisp crewmember on away missions which use the teleporter.

    These will most likely be events triggered, so each species will have at minimum a few events to make them unique. The events will be everything between simply getting a second attempt at an action resulting in another line of dialogue, to story-like events which try to bond the player to that specific crewmember. (Everyone would love "Joey Joe Joe the Angel-Species" after he, for the fifth time, saves a crewmember from disintegration. Perhaps the player will promote him to officer because of the events. Remember, this game has a big focus on the crew.

    Also, everyone's favorite seemed to be The Gummi species. I made 5 people choose 3 favorite species out of 25, and the Gummi was in eveyone's top 3, lol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
  5. WermHat

    WermHat

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Posts:
    88
    That sounds like a great way to get people more invested in their crews, and to put more thought into choosing who they want to do what. If this is the kind of feature you'll be adding now that the art is in someone else's hands... well, that may be the best decision of the project so far :)

    When are you going to post the full list of species? I'm really curious as to what all there is!
     
    CarterG81 likes this.
  6. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Continuing to create the prototype for the game. Still working on "Bridge Mode" with alien and crew interactions.

    Crew (Rendering) is absent since any alien species could be there, but each station is as it should be when the player clicks on each specific one. So I've got the interface working at least, even if it looks all alpha-y.

    Feature Creep: Hopefully, I will also be able to include descriptions of the aliens and/or alien ships, given to the player whenever they click on the bridge's viewer screen.

    BridgeMode.png
     
    WermHat likes this.
  7. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Art Update: Completion of the Cargo Bay.

    The Cargo Bay falls under the responsibility of the Xenology profession (formerly Communications) which deals in Trade.

    Cargobay2.png
     
    NomadKing, WermHat and FancifulFox like this.
  8. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Still working on implementing Dialogue System (Asset Store) into the game.

    Finished learning and setting up the Asset's GUI. Took me a bit to understand how things worked, especially since I am using small (17x16) pixels but in a POT2 texture (32x32). Meaning I have to offset it to center it correctly because the asset's GUI doesn't let you declare the size of the texture (tell it that it is actually only 17x16 from top left). Instead, just the size of the 32x32 texture. Actually...while typing this out, I realized I could make the textures a spritesheet and use Unity's new 2D features to make the sprite only 17x16 while keeping the texture 32x32 (which is required to prevent pixel distortion during rendering). Although I'm not sure if you can use a Sprite, you might have to use a Texture for Dialogue System.

    And just learning it in general, took me a bit. I also have been going through the documentation and tutorials learning what I need to do while thinking of how to program this.

    This image shown uses the asset's JRPG GUI (not my GUI, which I have to edit to get it looking correctly) but the positioning of each dialogue box and crew portrait seems legit. I will probably end up having to create a texture for all characters' (All species Captain, and all Species Crew) portrait icons, correctly sized and all. May just be easier to do it that way, unless Dialogue System patches to allow you to use Sprites instead of just Textures.

    By the end of the game, I hope to have a system where the Crewmember on the bridge appears with a ( ! ) icon, and the player can click them, which then does a cool effect where the shown dialogue box / portrait flies to its position from the crewmember. Will have to save cool effects like that until the Polish phase though.

    DialogueSystem.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
  9. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Finished a prototype of the bridge mode. It doesn't have all the cool complex encounters (just a normal dialogue tree right now) but it's everything I need right now until I figure out exactly how I will handle the encounters and complex variables.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
    FancifulFox likes this.
  10. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Time Management Update:

    It has been awhile since I last posted how long things usually take. Remember, I am keeping track of every single second of game development. This is alongside a requirement for other members to as well. This way, I can do a post-mortem with the EXACT number of hours it took me to make the video game. Even including the EXACT number of seconds it took for artwork, Unity scenes, programming certain things, etc.


    The following lists only things I've done multiple times. In this way, I can give a more accurate number. This information also helps me to gauge how I should manage my time and features. Take note: these times are not exact, but pretty damn close to it. (For example, if I create three scenes, one may take 3h 10min, the next 2h 50min, the next 3h 5min, the next 2h 55min and so forth. So I say "That takes me 3 hours.") Anything that had a greater difference in time is either noted or not listed. (ex. Programming stuff never seems to be consistent in amount of time required to finish a task, while working with Unity and scripting Scenes is always consistent). Remember, I keep game data and game logic separate from Unity, so I program just in C#. Unity scripts simply link that data into the game, handle GUI, rendering, etc.


    Working With UNITY
    Creating, designing, scripting, and GUI-ing a Unity Scene:
    3 hours.

    It seems consistent. No matter what I am doing or what part of the game is getting done, from gameplay to world generation- it seems that creating the Unity scene, linking in all of the game data, and adding textures/sprites/GUI setup seems to take 3 hours. One time it took 2 hours, and one time it took 3 hours 15 minutes.
    (There is one exception- the Procedurally Generated Universe. That took me 10 hours to program in C#, and 14 hours in Unity to build the Scene. However, you must remember this was my first scene. It seems that when it comes to learning something for the first time, it multiplies the time it takes me to finish a Scene.)

    Learning & Implementing an asset store asset (someone else's API + Unity Scene):
    3-4 hours learning, 7 hours 40min total.

    It seems to always take me around 7 hours to fully understand someone else's API (Vectrosity, Dialogue System). After 3-4 hours though, I grasp it enough to begin actually doing what I need (which really helps the process). I'm sure 4 of the 7 hours is the above task (Creating, Designing, Scripting, GUI-ing a Unity Scene). Slower by an hour due to learning and constant reference checks. By the time I complete the Scene, I understand the asset API fully and it is no longer like someone else's 'hard to understand' foreign code. Although honestly, without the developer's help, I assume it would double or quadrouple the time because of how much helpful they are in helping people understand their asset.

    To note, good documentation or developer assistance are key to keeping time short.
    I'd never buy an asset if the developer didn't document it well or actively support it at the time of purchase.



    Artwork
    Creating a Planet or humanoid Character:
    20 minutes
    Creating a new Character: 1 hour, typically (some rare difficult concepts my take 2-3 hours max)
    Animating a new Character: 3 hours
    ME Creating a room (environment graphic set): 6 hours
    Real Artist Creating a room (environment graphic set): 1-3 hours (I should double check this)



    Game Design: 2-3 hours per 'round'
    Anytime I work with Game Design, I nearly always spend 2-3 hours before stopping. This is enough time to organize all information, analyze it, make decisions, and form a document or "TO DO" list.


    Fixing Major (Alpha) BUGS: Seems to always take 1-2 hours to fix a major problem with the prototype.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
  11. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Well, I completed "Bridge Mode" as much as I can right now. The prototype for that is completed until I figure out the more complex game data and how to structure the content.

    Now, onward to a cinematic style event system! "Event Mode" is what I call it. It is where the story plays out, the player makes decisions, and then they see the result of their hard work managing their crew.

    "Bridge Mode" is to encountering alien SHIPS, as "Event Mode" is to Away Missions.
    Everything from violent planetary weather during an away mission, to encountering new species (both sentient and animal).
     
    WermHat likes this.
  12. WermHat

    WermHat

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Posts:
    88
    Does Event Mode cover incidents on the ship too? (ie Space Madness, disease outbreak, technical failures, etc) Or will that be its own system coming later?
     
  13. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Yep, it sure does :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  14. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    [Back to work] Alright! I have made some progress.

    [Asset Store / Architecture Headache] It has been a very long headache to figure out how my idea of using a timeline scrubber for event animations was not the best idea ever. Although in the future I might try to implement something akin to starting events after a certain time (so I don't have to preview the entire event every single time, just to tweak a portion of it).

    I tried out uSequencer, which seemed to be inferior to Animator (or MateAnimator as it is now and should have been named). Although I enjoyed the timeline scrubber, none were really what I needed and it actually turned out to slow down my workflow rather than speed it up. Go figure. Scripting and using gameobjects with transforms was 10x faster. Ten. Times. Faster. Keyframing slowed me down that much. Yeesh!

    I took the advice of someone and bought SWS (Simple Waypoint System) instead. What a breeze it is to create animated cutscenes (Event Scene animations).

    Events.png

    [Attention - 2D / Pixel Art - Unity Devs]: I used this amazing auto-snap script for the scene editor (a must for a pixel art 2D game) to prevent sub-pixel transforms. My PixelPerUnit is 100, so anything beyond the hundreths decimal place (0.01 is a pixel, while 0.005 is half a pixel) gave me issues. It was a PITA to keyframe every transform, so I was very happy when I found this auto-snap scene editor script.

    [Almost done with "Event Mode"] This scene is almost done. I've got everyone moving exactly as they should, the event occurs during the scene and ends as it should if you player's crew fails the task.
    If the player's crew succeeds, I will need to add 1 more gameobject with one additional waypoint that gets instantiated. That should take 5 minutes at most. EZ MODE!

    [TO DO - Event Mode]
    Not much left to do. The hardest part of "Event Mode" was figuring out how I'd handle creating animated cut scenes. It wasn't just about getting it done. It was about being efficient with the tools at hand to quickly and easily create event content. Also a focus on making it easy enough for other members of the team to create events without them having to understand everything.
    1. Setup animations
    2. Ship's Door Prefab (Animate whenever friendly crew walk through them)
    3. Pan Camera or turn pause scene to black & white, then show GUI of event results.
    4. Enable/Disable crewmembers based on value of how many are currently on duty.
    5. Render crewmember based on Character/Species.
    6. Finish this particular example event: Add computer/chair for teleporter (duh), success gameobject and path, and a bunch of drones which fly to the charging stations.
    7. Sound Effects
    8. Music
    9. Add cargo bay door on the left side of the Cargo Bay (that huge light grey hole currently leads out into Space, lol)
    10. Polish Laser graphics


    [Added Lasers] I've got the laser functions (characters shooting lasers) working using Vectrosity, but right now it's an ugly single-pixel line. I need to make it look better, and then add the effects when someone is hit.

    [This Event]This is actually one of many "Low Security" events which will occur whenever the player neglects their ship's security value. In this particular scene, the crewmembers in the Cargo Bay are done with work for the day and leave. After they are gone, an alien critter (stowaway) appears all mischievous like. I'd show a video, but I've yet to add the animations. I will add the video when it's done, unless I wait to show everyone by including the music change when he appears (dun dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnn...).

    [Design Worries] One thing in particular is that this, unlike other scenes, is very long. Although this particular event is rare and won't happen very often, it is a concern that it may happen too often and thus make the player bored. I'll either have to entertain them with variances in the scene (which should occur naturally) or shorten the scene. It is not so easy to strike a balance between showing the player a story and keeping their attention.

    Another huge concern of mine is that events may take too long to create. This would mean either finding ways to make it easier to create them, having multiple people create them, having shorter ones, having less complex (cool) ones, shortening them while supplementing the loss with text, or having less of them period.
    But then again... Events are a majority of the content, so maybe this won't be that bad. Besides, I should get much faster creating these and it isn't a ridiculous amount of time to make them. Plus, it's really fun and very easy- it just takes time.

    I still get giggles seeing my tiny alien come out of a cargo cannister and be mischievous.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  15. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    I figured I'd show the progress so far, with this prototype event.

    Obviously it doesn't conclude to much besides a small string.
    Since I don't have the character data in yet, I think I'll leave "Event Mode" done for now.

     
    WermHat likes this.
  16. zDemonhunter99

    zDemonhunter99

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Posts:
    478
    Hot damn! How in the world did I not see this project? And it's a mix of my favourites genres Space, Sci-fi along with pixel art! Perfect! Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see the end result.
     
    CarterG81 likes this.
  17. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Alright! Done with the events for now. Two more modes to go and the prototype is complete enough to know what the game will play out like. *crosses fingers* hopefully it will be fun without having to revamp the design :p

    Next up: Away Mode.

    This is the mode of gameplay where the player lands on a planet and explores it. They use their Shuttle or ATV to roam the planet, scan for points of interest, and then send down away teams to do actions on those points (for ex. send an away team to mine an area rich with resources, investigate a lost civilization, send down the science team to study an alien jungle, etc.)

    By the end of this, players can travel throughout the universe, land on planets, explore the planets, gather resources, and trigger events. The prototype will be complete whenever I finish the ship/crew management mode and tie it all together with some placeholder game data. After that, it's polishing the data that ties it all together and then create content!

    As long as it is a fun prototype.

    Another mode, kindof additional variation of "Away Mode" could include using the captain character (instead of a shuttle) to explore a smaller map, but that is not a vital mode right now and so far will not be implemented. (The events not all too dissimilar to that idea may be satisfactory enough to not need this gameplay type, and the Captain (Player) usually wouldn't go on away missions so that idea is contrary to the player experience even though it sounds fun).
     
  18. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    One more mode to go! Then I achieve the stage "First playable" or "Completed Prototype".

    Then a little bit of magic filling in all the game data behind the scenes (ex. procedural generation of planet maps, characters, procedurally generated alien species with procedural cultures & histories, etc.) aaaand.... Enter Alpha!

    Once I enter alpha stage, the game is almost entirely just adding content. Loads and loads of content. Then adding another layer over the game data behind the scenes to link in all that content, and it'll become a beta! I imagine adding the content will take a long time, probably a full month or two (4-8 weeks). Depending on how much time i Have to devote to the project, that could mean an actual 8-16 weeks if I continue on my current (sad) pace.

    Realistically, I see Alpha taking me 2-3 full work days (24 hours of actual work). Practically, at best that is probably a full week. At worst, by the beginning of September. I'm so close to Alpha.

    Realistically, I estimate at least 1 to 2 full work months (80-160 hours of actual work per week) to add most of the content (Enter Beta). Practically, that is at my slowest rate 6 full months (currently I have 127 hours @ 6 months, 4 days) and at fastest 3 months. I really need to devote more time to this.

    I have no idea what beta will entail, but even if I polished for a full work month (which is a lot of work for this game), that means a release date at the earliest mid-October, and at the latest February 11th a year after I started the project.

    It really depends on how much I buckle down to complete this. I'd prefer to devote myself full time to this project, but that won't happen. I am working an extra day each week at my real job until Sept/Oct, not to mention fixing what seems like an endless number of xbox consoles and computers for the kids, and will have even less free time because of friend/family commitments.

    As much as I like to socialize, I need time to work on this game and get it done, and the rest of the world doesn't really get that. Then again, I pretty much work endlessly. If I'm not at work, I'm cooking for the kids or fixing their console or PC's, working on new activities, spending time with the wife or friends or family, cooking for myself (I'm both a foodie and a perfectionist chef, so rarely does this not take 1-3 hours), fixing something with our house or system (I'll be damned if I pay anyone for something I can do for cheaper! harharhar...lol). I keep my sanity by relaxing when I need to by cooking, praying, taking long hot baths, multi-tasking while listening to the news (TYT), or listening to Weird Al.

    Perhaps if I wasn't so devoted (see: stubborn) to 100 different things all at once, I would have more time to game dev. Of course, then I wouldn't be me. As odd as it is, and as hardcore of a gamer I have been for the past 15 years of my life...I honestly don't really enjoy playing games as much as I used to, and enjoy so many other activities now. I also find myself spending all my game time on my PSP before bed, forsaking sleep to beat old Sega/SuperNintendo roms. Crazy, I know...BUT I've beaten Shining in the Darkness, Shining Force, and am now halfway through Shining Force 2 (or was, like 2 months ago since I havent played for that long...lol...)

    In the end, this will probably take even longer than I posted, because whenever Don't Starve Together is released, I will disappear off the face of the planet with my wife and a few hundred gallons of sweet tea, only to resurface months later with yet another change in facial hair style and a renewed passion for game dev.
     
    WermHat likes this.
  19. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Today was actually a pretty great day for the game.

    Woke up at 5am, and spent 6 hours working on the game, took a short break, went to work, got home and just wound down for two hours.

    It's only 11:34PM, but feels like 3am, 5am, lol.
     
  20. IAmCraigSnedeker

    IAmCraigSnedeker

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Posts:
    117
    This... game... looks... amazing.

    I'm really looking forward to this.
     
    CarterG81 likes this.
  21. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Thank you :)

    After tomorrow, I will have a lot of time to dedicate to finishing this prototype and bringing into the "Alpha" phase.

    Here are the major features of the game, a.k.a. my goals for Alpha + a hefty sum of content:

    1) Recruiting Your Crew- At the beginning of the game, Recruiting all of the crewmembers desired. These will be a large selection but a limited number of candidates, all procedurally generated. The player then hires his crew.
    A Beta version of this feature would be allowing the player to create their own crewmembers, name them as they'd like, pick their specialty, personality, etc.

    2) Ship Systems & Upgrades - Besides recruiting crewmembers, the player also purchases upgrades, cargo, etc. All of this will be from a starting pool of resources. The player pours resources into their area of expertise, and decides whether or not to rely on advanced systems, specialized crew, cheaper drones, or simply have it be an automated system, etc. (ex. Advanced weapons and scanners, downgraded mining equipment but bought extra fuel, automated robo-doctor, drone repairmen, but a boatload of security & science crew).

    Both 1 & 2 will probably be in a very basic form, as they are the least important major goals for me. They're too important to neglect in the Alpha, but will mostly be refined in or right before Beta, I imagine.

    3) Space Exploration & Ship Management - The player travels across the galaxy (or beyond), going from system to system to explore unknown phenomenon, encounter alien civilizations, discover new technology, and survive the lonely trek through space. This includes using a limited supply of fuel, food, and sanity. All while the ship, just like the crew, degrades slowly as systems are used or damaged. This includes "weekly" decisions by the player to balance and maintain the ship and crew. This also includes talking to the crew (or having the crew talk to you and make suggestions themselves) during the beginning of each week. (ex. a crewmember comes to you making demands, or you talk to someone at the drinking bar who expresses their depression).

    There are three parts (scenes) to this "manage mode". Talking to crew in the entertainment room, hearing from your officers in the counsel room, and actually making decisions in a GUI (perform specific actions instead of general duties, increase/decrease workload, etc.)

    4) System & Planet Exploration - The player travels to new solar systems, landing on planets and exploring them for areas of interests. This includes everything from mining resources, to discovering alien civilizations or surviving unexpected tragedy during a routine investigation. Which leads me to...

    5) Events - A cinematic scene unfolds for the player (often because of something they did or failed to do) and the player is given decisions which determine the outcome. At any time, the player may consult their officers for advice or solutions, or think outside of the box by attempting an action by using any system (in which the result may depend on the officer's skill). This includes "Bridge Mode" where the player encounters an alien ship while having all their officers on the bridge, although "Bridge Mode" differs compared to other events, because the player has more options due to the power of a ship and its systems vs an away team and their limited devices (and thus limited player choices).

    6) Procedurally Generated Alien Cultures- Every game begins with a procedurally generated world, with procedurally generated alien species. Will the blobs be friendly peacekeepers, violent barbarians, or perhaps 4th dimensional beings beyond your comprehension? Each game will be different, and part of the fun is exploration in getting to know alien civilizations.

    7) Cargo & Trade - The ability to buy/sell/find/mine/create/research cargo & artifacts, and then use those resources for diplomacy, upgrades, or activate an artifact's unknown special power. (I'd like to add a lot of cool artifacts, like a device that teleports the player across the galaxy, but takes weeks to recharge, or a dangerous device which freezes time). This includes mining on a planet, digging for artifacts, sampling plantlife, capturing animal aliens, buying ship upgrades, space colonies, and even diplomatic agreements like alliances or peace treaties.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
    WermHat and IAmCraigSnedeker like this.
  22. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Right now, working on the management GUI and design.

    I believe I'll have an overall "Workload" for # of days/week Work/Rest. (ex. Workload: Normal is Work/Rest: 5/2).
    Then allow the player to customize anything they'd like to change (Rest more for a specific system, work extra hard on getting weapon systems online, research alien lifeform post-haste!, etc.)

    In the same GUI, show how many crewmembers total (with a GUI button to see the details) alongside their Health, Sanity, and Happiness, along with the maintenance level (health) of the x3 subsystems (ex. for SECURITY - Ship Weapons, Crew Arsenal, Security Monitors).

    Perhaps something like this mock-up GUI:

    manage mode gui.png
     
  23. ChocolatePinecone

    ChocolatePinecone

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2014
    Posts:
    24
    Wow! I'm loving all of this!
    I am a beginning game dev too, just released my first game on android a month ago. I was searching for experiences of other game devs when I stumbled across this amazing project of yours.

    Have you thought of marketing already? Your game can be the awesomest in the universe, but you'll still earn nothing off of it if people don't know about it. (I learned this too late, after my release)
    Just for this reason I created a Twitter, Launchrock and Wordpress account, so fans are able to follow me closely.

    I'm definitely following this. Please keep us posted!
     
    CarterG81 likes this.
  24. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Still working on that GUI and designing how simple I can make "managing" the crew.

    ManageModeGUI.png

    Still need to add something like <---- System ----->, an Approval button to confirm everything and goto the next part of the scene, and the default Workload (using a slider between Days Worked vs Days Rest).

    Then...

    1) Add in the code/whatever (not sure what the new GUI is like) to change the text and images based on what profession/color is selected. Purple GUI for security, Red GUI for Entertainment, etc.

    2) Make colors change based on the health sliders (from 100% green to yellow/orange to 0% red).

    3) Create the "Before Assignment" scene, which includes the officer's suggestions (in an offices counsel room scene), then an "After Assignment" scene which randomly gives you some crew (in the entertainer's commons area).

    Then onwards to create the actual game data and link it all in to all of the game (drain fuel when traveling, keep track of time/date, crew sanity, etc.)

    After that, create the customize ship scene (recruit crew, buy systems, etc.), revisit the planet maps putting in planet generation game data, create the procedural species/cultures in game data, and finally figure out how to do the random encounters- viola! That'll make it Alpha! Soo close!
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  25. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Onward...to gameplay!

    XenologyGUI.png
     
  26. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    I took the time to make each officer look unique, compared to the crew. I also created some pretty awesome gas masks for the engineers.

    400x_Professions_9_13_14.png
     
  27. DeadKenny

    DeadKenny

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Posts:
    195
    Nice dude, art is looking good too.

    Making a space game myself. Love space stuff.
     
    CarterG81 likes this.
  28. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    I decided to get rid of the onesie outfit, and gave the psychologist's cool trenchcoat to the command officesr (Captain / 1st Officer).

    I am not sure yet what to do with the psychology officer, but I think this will suffice for now. (The first one, although it looks a lot like the navigation officer's jacket so idk yet.) I added in a blue trenchcoat (Xenology) to see if I should make all of the officers wear that cool trenchcoat (in which other graphics would just serve as different outfits for crew, maybe high skill crew that change outfits as they gain experience).

    For Xenology (Artifacts, Translation, Trade) and Psychology, I am not entirely sure what to do with them. I like the rest (at least enough).

    Alternatively, I can just make the Psychology officer have the onesie (4th / last guy in psychology in the picture below)

     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
  29. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Alright, I am very close to a final decision (I may change my mind, but for the most part this seems the best, and I am done with this decision).

    I gave the "Command Trenchcoat" looking outfit to ALL officers. However, I then gave each one a headpiece of some sort (with the exception of the Navigator).

    The first character is the Officer. They wear the officer's coat, alongside their unique attire. The other 3 outfits are for crewmembers with varying levels of skill. (Special for Veteran, Basic for Average, Onesie for Newbies). If I don't have various skill levels represented by outfits, then they will be based on if they are working on the ship, on away missions, relaxing, etc. I don't know yet.

    I do know that I loved the "Officer's Coat", but also loved all the cool hats. That is why they all have the coat, losing accessories, but retaining their headpiece.

    Some changes is that I added a type of crown to the command professions, changed the Xenology Officer (A merchant, archaeologist, and linguist) to a merchant turban, changed the doo-rag of the Engineer to a hard-hat, and still have no idea what kind of accessory for the psychologist.


    400x Professions.png


    For now, I gave the psychologist a hat.

    If anyone has any ideas for the Psychologist, I'm all ears.

    If you like the hat and it represents him fine, or you dislike it or it could be improved, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!
     
  30. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    You know what, I think the psychologist's hat is okay. And the jacket + hat too.

    The psychologist is also a sort of detective.

    In the case of a crew murder (event which can be caused by many different things), the psychologist is the detective in charge of finding out who murdered the victim, the security officer in charge of apprehending them, and the science officer in charge of getting the physical evidence.

    This is an event I'd like to have in the game, which has several stages to it. A sort of "adventure" where the murder happens, the player has to solve it (Psychology), get adequate evidence (Science), and then apprehend the suspect (Security). There may be a 4th (reward) stage, where the player gets to choose what to do with them (if they succeeded in all of that stages). Not succeeding in the first, means more murders (very bad). Not succeeding in the second means lower morale (conviction anyway without evidence) or harming an innocent crewmember (wrong guy - lower morale & more murders later). Not succeeding in the final part (Security) can mean ship damage or more crew loss as the apprehension goes wrong (ex. starting a hostage event).


    The design takes into consideration not just all the different events that can occur, but "Adventures" which are specific strings of events. The idea is to create short stories, which help the player feel as though they are on a real (dramatized) star ship. Not all dissimilar to sci-fi space television shows.
     
  31. DeadKenny

    DeadKenny

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Posts:
    195
    Lol, man I hate psychologists.

    Great use in a game though, first time seeing those pesky psycho bable people in one.
     
  32. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Taking a day off to look into an alternative to Unity. While the project is doing well in Unity, a lot of the important code (like procedural stuff) is written without Unity. So really, this would mostly be just a change in rendering methods (among other basics like input/sound), and how content is created. It isn't a massive overhaul even if I decide to create my own engine. (After one day, I am already done handling rendering, resource management, and even a system very similar to Unity's scene setup).

    I've grown tired of the constant tiny flaws and bugs with Unity. After reading this article, which I concur with, I'd like to take a day or two to see if an alternative would be worth it. For my game, not much is required, but Unity's 2D and some of its other newer features are just not ready for a polished product.

    IMO, Unity is a great engine for making game Tools or quick prototypes. To sum up the article I read and my thoughts on the matter:

    "I've come to realize, while Unity makes 90% of the game take 10% of the time, it also makes 10% of the game take 90% of the time."

    Nothing is more frustrating for me than to waste hours of my life trying to fix someone elses' problem. I have never been stuck for a frustrating amount of time when writing my own code (except when I was a bit newbier as a programmer, of course.) I can handle my own code very well, and when there is a problem I usually know at least where it is located, if not what it most likely is. With Unity, the frustration has never been a result of my work, but of a bug with a new feature. Hell, they can't even get the 2D rendering right. Sure, nothing is game-breaking. However, IMO it is unacceptable to have seriously (tiny) flaws in a release.

    On a positive note, I've already created enough of an engine in C++, to put it simply, emulate the way Unity handles the Scene hierarchy. (Scenes & Gameobjects).
    It is also a pleasure to work on my own code, rather than no code at all. While others see Unity's features as a benefit, I see them as "not fun, not fulfilling, and not entertaining." Coding though? That energizes my brain, fulfills my need for accomplishment, and is just plain fun.

    In the end, I will be wary with my final consideration. This does not mean abandoning Unity for my own engine. It means re-evaluating how I work, and making the choice which will release my game the fastest.

    You may think, "Unity makes games the fastest!" but you have to consider many factors in development.
    First... yes, it does make a lot of the game developed very fast. Some of the game though, takes longer than it would in a custom engine.
    Second... it is slower working with other's code, code you cannot alter (and thus have to create a workaround to solve bugs or feature problems). Working with your own code, is as fast as it gets. You know everything, because you created it exactly as you wanted. If you have to change something or fix a bug, it is your code so you know how to, remember where to, and can do so quickly.
    Third... consider practical reality. If a programmer finds working with their own code more enjoyable, more fulfilling, and significantly less frustrating, that means they will be better motivated to work, work at greater efficiency, and be able to work harder and longer. Frustration or Stress can degrade work efficiency or reduce motivation, resulting in a slower development speed.
    Fourth... remember how simple this game is. The interface is simple, the graphics are simple, the gameplay is simple. Very little is required to make this game. That means less of a drawback when creating your own engine, because not as much has to be done compared to, say a 3D FPS.
    Fifth... it is a better learning experience to create your own engine. This means more competence in programming, which means in the future (using Unity or anything else) more capability and confidence in problem solving. More efficient code and more experience programming. As my opinion says in another thread, Unity can actually hurt programmers, by becoming too much of a crutch.
    Sixth... You usually need to make your own game tools anyway. Why learn Unity's API to make them as "Asset Plugins" when you could simply make them yourself or other tools or game libraries (which are arguably easier to understand or better documented)?

    Finally... Content. This game is mostly content. I don't build levels and enemies in the editor or in prefabs and call it a day. Unity would be amazing for a platformer. My game is far from that. In addition to normal content, I also have to build stories, adventures, encounters, dialogue trees. These can become complex in logic, and while building them in Unity doesn't take all that long, building them in a more custom way may be significantly more efficient. It also may allow for a lot more complexity. Which means more content, because of faster developed content. It means a quicker release date, and the ability for others on the team to build content. (Imagine if an entire team, friends, family, and fans all had to learn Unity and asset store plugins just to help you build simple content. Most would not do it.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
    GarBenjamin likes this.
  33. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    After working 60 hours in my own engine, I am still torn.

    I did not get all too far in my own engine (ran into a 13 hour brick wall trying to implement Lua), but even after successfully dominating that hurdle, I was left with more work to do. Work that would lead me to getting to where I was at with Unity. Although I believe I am competent enough to do it, and I have learned so much about programming and game programming during most of these 60 hours, I do not know exactly what to do still.

    On one hand, I have my own engine. It's a pleasure to work with code, but frustrating and stalling having to learn how to do so many things one after another. Sometimes learning something complex for what should be a very simple, easy solution. The strengths are customizability, performance, a pleasure to code, higher motivation, more satisfaction, and a massive leap in programming and game programming experience.

    On the other hand, we have Unity. It's harder for me to get motivated to work in Unity for some reason (Visual Editor compared to low level code + My preference to code), extremely frustrating (with no resolution) when I encounter a Unity bug or problem that has no real solution (having to create a work-around is the worst). Very little learning (only growth in using Unity, no real growth in game programming or programming in general). In fact, next to no learning is involved outside of learning Unity and Unity-based things that do not translate (unless to something like UE4). The strengths are the asset store, which is also a weakness (you have to do things the asset's way, not your way), but the biggest strength of all is more working on the GAME and less working on the ENGINE. Although this is really only one strength, it is such a huge strength that it contends with all the strengths/weaknesses of rolling your own engine.

    I am torn because my own engine obviously requires a lot more work, and a ridiculous ton of learning. However once completed, it is perfect and doesn't need to be touched. Everything afterwards is creation of content, in a very straightforward, easy, and enjoyable way. Plus I plan on making several games, so the learning is invaluable.

    However, what game can I think of that I could not just make with Unity?
    Unity has a lot of asset store stuff. It already has a scripting language. Tons of tiny little features we all take for granted. No need to worry or even work on low level stuff. A visual editor (which is great for when you need to build levels.) Cross platformer compatibility (although I don't know as to what extent that is. i.e. how much work is involved porting).

    Then you have content. Creating it in Unity isn't that bad. It isn't the most preferable, but at the same time... I could write plugins or assets to alter the editor (almost like making my own tool) and also share it with the community. All in a shorter time than writing the same functionality in C++. That is a strength that I could do in Unity just as I could in my own engine.

    Honestly, the only thing holding me back from returning to (and sticking with) Unity, is growth as a programmer, and those damn subpixel issues I'm always encountering. I will not grow at all using Unity. I know this, as I have not despite using it for so very long. On the contrary, programming even a single day teaches me so much. Yet is that worth postponing my game for so long? Is it worth the frustration and constant "I want to just give up forever!" doubts? I do not know. I want to make my game, but I also want to learn how to do so much more than just make this one game.
     
  34. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Well, I am back to Unity to see how things go.

    My motivation for a custom engine is extremely high, but so is the frustration.

    I have concluded that between Unity and a custom engine, it is dead even. It took me several days (continuing with the custom engine as I thought about this) to weigh the pros and cons of both. Still...too....equal...

    So I took a different method. I did not measure my time, difficulty, frustration, motivation, or work efficiency. I measured the only real differences between using a custom engine and Unity. For me, those differences were small: Learning & Growth as a Programmer & Game Programmer (Custom Engine) vs. my need for a custom solution.

    In the beginning, one of the reasons I temporarily left Unity to experiment was because I believed I could design and develop a more efficient system for creating content. Since most of the development time in games is (or at least mine will be) creating content, I took content creation as priority over everything else.

    In Unity, I create content by using SWS, without a timeline scrubber (which means to test any changes, I have to hit "Play" and watch the entire scene.) In a custom solution, I had plans for a tool which included the scrubber, as well as an interface which let you build the scenes not dissimilar to Unity, then saves it in a script file to be loaded later by the game.

    The idea was that this tool and the scripting solution, along with the timeline scrubber, would be faster in creating content- by a significant enough value to warrant leaving Unity behind. Another idea was to have a smart A.I. which played out stories based on certain parameters, which would make creating the scenes require 0 seconds. While I do not know how long either path would actually take to implement, I discovered a part I neglected to consider when creating content.

    Writing.

    Writing takes, by far, the longest of anything else I do. Creating the animations, scenes, effects- these things are pretty quick. Surprisingly. Writing all the possible dialogue, choices, and solutions- takes time. When paired, they add up, but not to the point that they can be significantly reduced by a custom tool. (ex. if it takes an hour to write a story, and only 20 minutes to create all the game content related to that dialogue/idea, then reducing that 20 minutes doesn't go as far as it would if it took just as long to implement the story with content than it did write the story.)

    Motivation was another thing to question. Is my motivation because I was inspired to work on my GAME, or inspired to PROGRAM? Returning to Unity allows me to test this. Hopefully my hypothesis is incorrect, and I am highly motivated and inspired for my game, not for the fun and wonderful amazing-ness of programming code.

    Immediately after returning, I am beginning to appreciate Unity more as a game engine. The reasoning people say it's great, is either too vague to get anything from their statements or are the wrong reasons it is a powerful engine to develop games with. I am understanding the "real" reasons Unity is a good choice over a custom solution. (For example, the power of its Scripting Language / Scripting System / Whatever your semantics are.)

    I also have grown so much as a programming while creating my own engine the past 3 weeks, that I am now able to solve Unity's flaws or weaknesses much more quickly, with insight into the possibility of extending the Editor or Asset Store Assets (or creating my own).

    I will return to Unity, work on the game for a few days, and by the end of that I should have my answer on which to choose. If I am only highly motivated to work when programming in code, I will have no choice but to leave. If the motivation is just for game dev, and I see no reason to leave, I will stay.

    Last but not least, if it were not for the Asset Store, Unity would be an awful choice to develop games compared to a custom solution (for those able to build their own engine, at least). If it were not for the Dialogue System by PixelCrushers, I myself would not even consider returning to Unity. However, Dialogue System is a very powerful asset, and the asset store in general makes Unity what it is: a great engine.
     
    GarBenjamin likes this.
  35. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    It is decided!

    Unity will be the tool I use to develop the game.

    Many may think, "Wow, just just wasted over 60 hours making your own engine, when you could have used that to make your game in Unity!"

    Coming back to Unity with all the programming experienced I gained (being power leveled by making my own engine) and the huge boost in confidence that it is true that I can literally do anything, has been quite thrilling.

    I've already destroyed two of the major bugs (problems ive had with Unity) within the first hour of returning.
    I can see so much broader, envision so much more possibilities, with Unity- because of the growth I've had.

    I still firmly believe that Unity harms growth in newbie to novice game programmers. It harms them quite a bit. Nothing will teach you as much as creating your own engine, with experience and confidence that will make working with something like Unity far easier. That is invaluable as a developer, especially when motivation can so easily be destroyed by hitting brick walls of difficulty. Walls you could smash easily if you just had more experience programming games.

    I've grown enough as a programmer to not only feel, but now know I can, in time, do anything I desire. Nothing is out of the scope of possibilities. This, and a better understanding of software engineering and development, really makes it significantly easier to create my game with Unity. It also lets me appreciate Unity's strengths more than I did before, feel less frustrated when dealing with issues, and thus work more efficiently.

    I must admit that my biggest reason for choosing Unity is, almost hands down, Dialogue System.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
    GarBenjamin likes this.
  36. NickHaldon

    NickHaldon

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Posts:
    128
    First off, I love the way your game is going and how it looks. Its simply amazing!

    Second, you say that you believe that Unity harms growth newbie programmers. Since I am a newbie programmer what would you suggest instead? Any good advice on stuff to use instead? Anything on how to create my own engine? Any and all information would be greatly appreciated!

    Again your game looks great!
    NickHaldon
     
  37. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    =========
    A Good Link
    =========

    This is probably the most helpful, single resource on the subject:
    So you want to be a game developer...now what?


    =========
    Three Questions
    =========
    Thank you for your interest in the game. To answer your question, I'd need to know more.

    1) What is your experience with Unity? Have you used it before? For a long time?
    2) What is your experience in programming? I know you said 'newbie', but does that mean entirely new and never done much before, or does it mean you understand the basics? Any books you've completed on programming?

    3) Most importantly, what is the game you'd like to make? I would ignore all of what I say if the game you want to make is 3D, because I have absolutely no experience in 3D. Although I'd assume many of the same things apply, I cannot say for sure how worthwhile Unity is as a 3D engine. My game is entirely 2D, and although complex in some areas, in Unity or an engine, it has basic features (basic rendering, basic effects, extremely basic animation, etc.)

    I would take very careful consideration when giving advice to other people, especially newbies, because I don't want to steer them in the wrong direction and for them to return years later fully competent thinking "Wow, Carter was an idiot! Damn him wasting my time!"

    Someone with a lot of experience with Unity, and little in making their own engine or programming, would probably be better served staying with Unity for their game. That is, unless they want growth as a programmer. What is more important to you? Finishing a game (growth as a game developer), or growth as a programmer?


    =========
    My Path
    =========

    I have been learning to program for many years, through so many paths. It goes something like this:

    -------------------------
    May or may not have been a waste of time. Basic programming concepts, but a lot of jumping around, a lot of lame tutorials which never taught me much. In the end, I realized I needed to stop doing tutorials and actually do something with more subtance.
    -------------------------
    Two tutorials + Slick2D-->
    Many tutorials + XNA-->
    Tinkering + Torque2D-->
    Tinkering + Video Tutorials + Unity-->
    Tutorials + SDL-->
    Tutorials + SFML-->
    Searching + Cocos2D-x, others, etc.-->
    Tinkerng + iPhoneGameKit + iOS dev-->
    -------------------------
    Beginning to truly learn programming concepts.
    -------------------------
    Many Tutorials + XNA-->
    XNA GPA Tutorial + XNA-->
    Programming & Tutorials + SDL->
    GameFromScratch Tutorial + SFML-->
    Book "Isometric Game Programming with DirectX 7.0" + SFML-->
    Tinkering + Torque2D-->
    A C++ book/class from GameInstitute to learn the basics of C++-->
    -------------------------
    After completing the C++ course, finally understood some concepts, understood more & better.
    This is where I went from Newbie to Novice, and could from then on out program (with help from resources) anything I wanted.
    -------------------------
    Just Programming + SDL-->
    Just Programming + SFML.net C#-->
    New Game + Procedural Generation Programming (No Tutorial, No Book) + Unity-->
    Procedural Generation (converted from C# to C++) + SFML + book "SFML Game Development"-->
    -------------------------
    After completing "SFML Game Development", and then working for 60+ hours on my own engine, I learned enough to go from Novice --> Amateur. I leveled up significantly. Even working with Unity, it is now a lot less frustrating and easier to grasp what I need to do to accomplish anything. I feel as though I am finally at the level I need to be at, to not have any problems or hit any brick walls of frustration when making this specific game in Unity.
    -------------------------
    Unity-->Now, Present Day


    Another book I didn't mention, was "Game Engine Architecture." While not teaching you so much about programming as it does teach you about game engines, it does teach a lot about game programming. Hailed as one of the best books, by an amazingly accomplished author. I'd put this on the back burner unless you wanted to make your own engine.


    =========
    Books, not Tutorials
    =========
    Tutorials were mostly a wash. Very little teaching. Mostly just copy/paste code and barely enough understanding to learn anything. The only exception is GameFromScratch tutorials. This is the wonderful, intelligent author who taught me about Maps (rather than vectors, arrays, or linked lists).

    Other than those two tutorials, the rest were mostly S***. Many weren't even written well enough to have the source code work...lol...

    What helped me the most, were books. Going through large portions of books.

    After completing GameFromScratch's SFML tutorial, some growth.

    After completing my first book, "Isometric Game Programming with Direct X 7.0" by Ernest Pazera, I had a huge amount of growth. This might be because I converted all the DirectX 7.0 code to SFML code.

    After completing my second book (GameInstitute course) on C++, which I refer everyone to if they want to learn programming, I had a huge amount of growth. Also to note, GameInsitute has courses on Unity. I've never used them, but that might be interesting.

    After that, I had a lot of growth by just programming. I created simple programs to do things like sort, rename, and convert tens of thousands of images into organized folders with specific naming conventions, programs which create masks from other images or scripts which dye sprites different colors, etc.
    Just practicing, after I did a few books, was pretty important.

    When I created the procedurally generated galaxy of this game in Unity, I felt I could do anything. I could, but not without a lot of frustration. By leaving Unity and completing the book "SFML Game Development", practicing programming by making the engine, and then implementing Lua with the help of a chapter from "Game Coding Complete" and just more programming practice, I had a huge amount of growth.

    It seems to me that what gave me significant amounts of growth were books. Not tutorials. Not practice in Unity. Mostly completing books on game programming. I didn't complete every chapter in the books, just most, and always the ones relevant to my game (so I'd skip a network chapter or only skim it, etc.)


    =========
    Ignore the Noise
    =========
    I had to unlearn a lot of the idiocy/wrong information I had learned before. For example, there are a lot of high rep morons at StackExchange. Like Sean Middletech, who has a very popular answer to a very important question, and he says "The answer is always to use a std::vector." because every other container is "absolutely horrendous in games". It took a lot of other (more intelligent, competent) low rep stack exchange users on other questions (they were too scared to challenge him in the popular question), and other articles, to realize he was an idiot. Every book I've browsed through about game containers and every book I've completed, talks about how amazing Maps are for games. They are far from "Evil" and very few books use vectors like they are the end-all-be-all. I feel safe calling people like him an idiot, because all resources are contrary to idiotic opinions like "always", "this is evil", "that is horrendous", etc. That's not what programming is like. Programming doesn't have always absolutes. Also, I'm pretty sure Tons of Successful Programmers & AAA Game Developers > arrogant stackexchange users. Just keep in mind, and when in doubt always assume Books > Internet Opinion.

    I mention that, because the internet is full of incompetent know-it-alls, bad programmers, awful tutorials, and stupid people. There is so much noise online, you have no idea who to listen to as a newbie. This is why books are a great choice. They are written by single authors, who usually have great information, and are usually good choices even if not perfect. Relying on random forum posts or stackexchange will get you to end up wasting your time as you follow their advice, only to realize how bad and incorrect their opinionated vitriol was. I've read famous game develoeprs who say the opposite of much of what you find on the internet, and they are usually right. Don't get me wrong, StackExchange and Forums are an okay place to get help with specific problems, but always take their advice with a grain of salt, and if it sounds like an opinion- burn it with fire.

    If you have to turn to a SE site, a good tip is to look for lower rep users. The high rep ones are usually significantly less competent at what they're answering than the lower rep users (a 5000 rep user answering a question, probably knows what he is talking about because he rarely answers questions, while a 50,000 rep user answers every question possible- and there is no person who is that competent in every area of expertise.) Lower rep users usually don't get "best answer", as high rep users have popularity on sites with such a bad system, so low rep usually have the better answers even if their answers get less exposure.


    =========
    Just Make Your Game
    =========
    Ironically, I say it's awesome to use a custom engine and blast Unity a lot, but what am I using? Unity. That shows you something.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
    NickHaldon likes this.
  38. NickHaldon

    NickHaldon

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Posts:
    128
    1.) This is my first time using Unity. I've been playing with it for a couple of weeks and have learned most of the basics but nothing very substantial.
    2.) I am completely new in programming. Never used it before and don't really understand the basics. I haven't read any books yet either. I have watched a couple of tutorials but they didn't amount to much.
    3.) My dream game is 3D but it seems like its much better to start really simple hence I will probably try a 2D game. Something simple like trying to get a block to another block while dodging things. I don't really know.

    Think of me as a nearly completely blank slate game developing wise.

    I think that growth as a programmer is more important to me. When I weigh it, programming could do so much more for me. If I ever need any type of program I could simply make it instead of needing to buy it. I could also customize it perfectly for me. I really want to be able to do absolutely anything I want whenever I want without relying on others.

    As you state in your post I also get the feeling that I don't learn anything in tutorials. That I am just copying the person and not learning. I have watched a couple and I don't think anything has changed for me. I'm the same as I was before the tutorials, maybe a little bit more knowledgeable on how people do things but not much. Any good books that you can suggest? Also what language do you suggest? I cant figure it out. I am leaning towards C# right now.

    Also the post at the very top, "So you want to be a game developer... now what?" Would you say that what it says is still applicable now days? All the books and stuff it mentions?

    Thank you for all that you have written. This "wall of text" has been really helpful.:)
     
    CarterG81 likes this.
  39. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Posts:
    7,441
    I just read your posts where you were struggling with the decision to stick with Unity or create your own engine. I get that completely. Welcome back! What I personally do is spend as little time in the scene editor as possible. Set up a new prefab and then I spend my time in Visual Studio writing code. I don't use the Unity physics or the Unity animations. Remember you can use as little or as much of the Unity stuff as you like (well as far as some things go anyway).
     
    CarterG81 likes this.
  40. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Awesome that you understand :)

    Thanks for the tips! It is hard to get out of the mindset of "You gotta use the Editor!"
    You helped me think outside the box; I appreciate that.
     
  41. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Alright, since you have little experience in either, I wouldn't suggest things one way or another at first. If you're a blank slate, you can go either way.

    If I were a blank slate, and know what I know now, I'd tell myself to learn the basics of programming using either GameInstitute or a beginner's programming book. That would also teach you if you really want to do programming seriously or just do it enough to make a game in Unity. Then I'd go through a book or two while making my own custom engine, or using Unity but with advanced concepts (like procedural generation).

    As a beginner, I am not entirely sure, but Unity should teach you the basics of programming. You still deal with the basics in Unity just like a custom engine. Variables, functions, parameters. You also can do raw code and implement it into Unity. My procedural generation is entirely just integers and integer containers (arrays) with functions and math. It's entirely independent of Unity.

    A text based game in Unity, would probably be VERY similar to a text based game in a custom solution- except you can do some cool nifty prototyping with Unity (like Social Justice Warriors, which is just a text based game, with some simple animations and simple GUI effect sliding the enemy into the screen, then downwards out of the screen when defeated). Still just a text game though. Pr-aaaaaaahh-bably more fun in Unity while learning it bc of some nifty, quick things you can do.

    For languages, the two major contenders are C++ and C#. The big differences is that C# is a superior language to work with, it's more modern, friendlier, and just all around better. C++ has the capability to be more powerful and more efficient in performance, but this is not relevant to newbies. C++ is more prone to errors, more difficult to learn. You should minimize the number of things you have to learn, so you can absorb the more important concepts first. For example, it is more important to understand basic concepts used in all languages, rather than spending time in C++ with pointers (you having to manage memory yourself, which better languages eliminated entirely.)

    So I'd hands down suggest C#.

    C# is more modern. C# is friendlier to windows. C# is very well supported with tons of libraries, and most of the good ones have C# bindings even if they're a C++ library. (Lua bindings for C#, SFML.net for C#, etc.) C# also is the language of Unity.

    GameFromScratch mentions this type of stuff in the link I sent, and yes, it is indeed very relevant today. It still applies today. All great information. Don't start with C++. Go with a managed language, which means C# or Java. I'd go with C#. C# has XNA (which is now practically called Mono Game since they still use it and they're still very popular).

    I can't refer you to any of the books, as I've only completed the ones I previously mentioned. I can confirm those are great books (Isometric w/ DirectX7.0 probably not for someone unless they want to make an isometric 2D game. But the rest are solid.)

    If you have a lot of money, and want to go the C++ route (just go deep and try to master the harder language), I'd suggest GameInstitute. That is where I learned C++ (two books on the subject, and it is very much like a college course- even including tests and finals. The books are written like college courses and it is just all around a great program.) GameInstitute is a membership site, so you pay once and have access to everything.

    IMO, it is the best possible deal for a newbie. It teaches tons about so many aspects of game dev.
    It's only $50 for courses on:

    C++ Programming, 3D Graphics and Game Engine Programming, Mathematics, Artifical Intelligence
    Even art stuff like: 3D Modeling & Animation, Character Design & Animation, Texture Creation
    Unity Tutorials: Three courses that teach you how to make 3 games: Breakout, Space Invaders, and a 3D Racing game.

    It says it's a membership for only one year, but you really just need to download everything and you've got it forever for the rest of your life.

    If that is too much money, then you would probably have to find a way to get free books online somewhere. I'll have to leave you to learn how to do that if you don't have enough money to goto game institute or buy pdf or real books. Then again, you can find the game institute stuff the same way you find any books.

    If you don't want to go the game institute route, and I advise against starting with C++, I'd suggest books that teach you C#. I always prefer to focus on Game Programming. Even when it's the basics that have less to do with games and mroe to do with programming in general, I still prefer it in a GAME format. That's why I liked the game institute's C++ books. I have less experience in this area, but I'd focus on what type of game you want to make. Learn what you dream.

    My dream was a 2.5D isometric rpg. That is why my first major book was "Isometric Game Programming with DirectX 7.0". It taught me isometric game dev. Totally relevant to my game. I could use what I learned in that book, to further my dream.

    There are some interesting books that claim to teach you C# game programming while using Unity3D. This would be very valuable for you as a newbie, I'd think. It would give you a taste of both programming in C# AND Unity3D. You can discover whether or not you like game programming or game dev. (A lot of people begin to learn programming, and find out they hate it.) If you use one of those books, I'm sure you'd learn a lot for both and will be able to keep skills and possibly help you decide what to do next.

    I'd look for something like this:
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=C# game programming

    Honestly? I'd refer you to one of these books. Why not? Unity is pretty awesome, especially for beginners. It can help assist you while you focus on smaller scripts. Eventually you will find yourself no longer growing as a programmer using Unity, and that is when you can try your hand at a custom engine. Eventually you would have the choice to return to Unity, if it's still around (not ruined by selling out) and you'd still have all those skills using it. Even for an experienced programmer, Unity has a high learning curve because Unity is Unity. It's not anything else.

    So perhaps read a few amazon reviews on the "Learn C# Unity" books. There's a lot of different ones, so find out which one is the best reviewed by people. If you're a blank slate, it's a great choice and what I think I'd refer you to myself now that I think about it. This is how I began, and I did a lot in Unity quickly enough to be excited about developing games. If you don't use Unity, you will see less fruits of your labor, and more labor. Unity lightens the load, helping you focus on learning. Unity will certainly not hurt a blank slate programmer. Even Unity scripting requires basic C# programming which you will HAVE to learn.

    This important to note: Unity requires you to be a programmer to make a good game. People, especially around here, will act and even seem to not need that skill, but to do anything spectacular you have to at least be a novice. You gotta know what you're doing and how to engineer a game. Wrap all the gameplay components in your mind, and use abstract thinking to figure out how to accomplish implementing a feature. You can't rely on the asset store for everything. So Unity will teach you how to program.

    I should have said this earlier: Unity is harmful to amateur to novice game programmers. Not blank slate, and idk about newbies. My mistake. Once you get past being a newbie and enter into intermediate, but still not professional, Unity becomes a sort of crutch compared to the wonderfulness of learning complex programming topics when creating a custom engine from low level game libraries (like SDL or SFML, or even raw OpenGL).

    If you want to learn SFML and go the C++ route later once you've become a more competent programmer, I would STRONGLY recommend the SFML Game Development book. It was amazing. In just 2 days, I created most of the engine with a system very similar to Unity's gameobject/hiearchy. A great, but difficult to understand book. Don't try that book as a newbie. The system is quite complicated and takes a good amount of understanding. It's an intermediate book, not a beginner's book. However I mention it now, because as you will find- similar to tutorials, most books are beginner to novice books. It gets harder and harder to find books the further you progress. Professional game programmers probably have to attend state-of-the-art conferences and listen to extremely complex speakers, to really grow quickly. That, and practice.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
  42. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    I haven't been posting any updates (especially not pictures) because ever since I returned to Unity from working on a custom engine, I've been focusing very hard on getting a playable prototype of the major feature that separates this from game all others.

    I decided during development of my own enigne, that I need to go one of two diretions: a safe direction (implement the parts that are similar to games like Starflight, insuring a 'good' game if the innovative features didn't pan out) OR go the direction of testing the innovative features (more work, but if a failure- I could scrap the game entirely and start a better project).

    Needless to say, focusing on the innovative features was a great idea. Just during the prototyping process, the game has the possibility to extend beyond what it currently was, to a more interactive version. In other words: fewer total events in the game, but each event is longer and more involved for the player (meaning more playtime per piece of content). In simple terms: more choices for the player for each event.

    I hope to show off some of the user interface (if not videos of the prototype) when it is complete. Little did I know, the artist on my team is amazing at interfaces. We have planned to make the game have an interactive interface, such as the player using a GUI that looks like the tools the characters use, to perform actions. (Kind of like Papers Please's GUI, where you stamp Approve/Reject- we want it interactive in that way, as opposed to clicking a context menu.) So rather than hitting a lame button with the text "Start Mission", you'd instead hit a big red button like launching a space ship. A style like that.

    Here is an example of what I'm talking about, where the player uses the medical device to inspect a micro-organism. The device which is sort of like a futuristic microscope. Another separate device would be used to administer medical care, etc. The three buttons you see are actually active GUI elements, which pop out to perform different tasks on the micro-organism when clicked.

    microorganism.png

    The above device, I'd like for the player to drag out as a tiny object, then click (or touch-screen) it and have it animate open with fun sci-fi noises. Make the player FEEL like they are using the device themselves.

    The devices available during each mission, is determined by which team members you assigned to the away team.

    Furthermore, the design for events has become a bit more complicated, allowing a lot more player choices and branching outcomes. This adds significant work per event, but IMO is well worth it because it means each event will last long enough to hopefully feel more like an "episode" rather than a 30 second cutscene. More on that later.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
    NomadKing likes this.
  43. NickHaldon

    NickHaldon

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Posts:
    128
    Sorry about the really late reply. I've been really busy and haven't had much computer time.
    Thanks for all the work you've put into replying to me. I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me way more then I have told you.

    From all that you have said and all that I have heard I think I will try to go the C# route. It sounds easier to learn then C++ and overall better. I am going to see if my local library has any books. I'll probably still get some books from Amazon anyways because my library kind of hates me. They probably wont even let me get any books. :) Also the Amazon books look really good and much better then anything a library has. I plan on spending a bunch of time looking through them all to find the best one. I haven't spent much time looking at them yet.

    Yeah, lately I have been astounding my brothers with seeming advancements. I downloaded asset store stuff and they all thought I had advanced really far .:D Thanks for clearing up the Unity thing. I was just a little worried that I was hurting myself. :)

    I'll definitely bookmark this page so later I can look up all the books you have suggested. Especially the SFML Game Development book. Once I can code more then nothing obviously. :)

    Again, thanks for all your help greatly appreciate it.

    P.S. The away team scene looks really good. The device thing also looks really cool and very clean. In fact, the whole game just looks awesome and amazing! Where can I sign up for testing???
     
    CarterG81 likes this.
  44. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    You're very welcome :)

    Hehe, thanks! Right now I'm still trying to get the prototype finished. It's a bit of an undertaking, because I am also designing the way to build all the content. Trying to figure out the most efficient way to do things, so I can be as lazy as possible.
     
  45. Myhijim

    Myhijim

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Posts:
    1,148
    This is fantastic man, it reminds me of FTL but on a much larger (and better) scale!

    Keep it up.
     
    CarterG81 likes this.
  46. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    I spent today working hard to finish the prototype, but began to get frustrated with the inefficiency of content. I tried, once again, several sequencers, to no avail. It seems as though cutscene sequence assets from the asset store are the opposite of what I am wanting.

    I should have trusted my instincts from the beginning. I need to create some artificial intelligence to handle creation of stories and dynamic encounters. An added bonus, the AI would go a long way to improve the interactive component of storytelling.

    The AI is required to create procedurally generated gameplay and events (story, content).

    So now I am researching the different approaches to adding in the AI.

    In the end, this is how the game should work so far:

    Procedurally Generated Universe, Species, & Characters.
    Procedurally Generated content, story, encounters.
    AI taking the content and making it work, allowing for dynamic generated content (more content, less work), and the AI figuring out how to form the dialogue trees and player decisions, results from decisions, etc.

    The Procedural Generation makes the world, I fill in with some basic ideas for content, and the AI makes that content a reality.

    Should be some interesting stuff.
     
  47. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Just to note, although I believe I have already stated it, this project is in postponement. Development will resume after my current project, so you can expect an Away Mission release date much closer to 2017-2019. As much as I want to begin work on this game again (every day, I miss this project. I love Away Mission quite a lot, and am constantly excited to work on it even though I can't.), I need to finish my current project first. Based on the success of my current project will determine when I am able to start work on Away Mission again. If I need to create more content, expansion packs / DLC / whatever, then it will be 2019. If I just release and that's it, then it will most likely be 2017-2018.

    Recently I created what seems to be a positively acceptable article on my design process with away mission.


    You can view this article HERE.


    As a side note, I updated the above post to reflect some personal drama, which I think is important. Being an indie developer or even a tutorial author can sometimes get the attention of very troubled individuals. I believe that women are especially targeted, and we all know how that has went down with gamergate & all that. I really need to set my profile as "Male", lol.
     
  48. Schneider21

    Schneider21

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Posts:
    3,512
    I didn't catch that this was on hold... What's the current project that's holding it up, and can I kill it with fire so that development can resume and I can start dispatching Away Teams?
     
    darkhog, theANMATOR2b and CarterG81 like this.
  49. PhilippG

    PhilippG

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Posts:
    257
    Will this project be revived? I enjoyed reading this devlog very much, thanks for the insight! :)
     
    CarterG81 likes this.
  50. CarterG81

    CarterG81

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Posts:
    1,773
    Absolutely! Ever since it was postponed, it has been our immediate priority after our first game is released.

    I am still desperately wanting to play this for myself, let alone for all the wonderful people who were interested. Anytime I see this thread or any of the images, I am thrilled to start working on it again.

    I've never understood the type who "postpone" their project, then disappear off the face of the internet. I assume maybe those are college students, who later get a "real job" & abandon their mod/project. I am an established adult in my 30's, who currently has the fortunate opportunity to do whatever I want in gamedev. (No publisher, no financial burdens, etc.) And I want to do this game ASAP.

    And I live & breath the internet for my whole life, so I'm going nowhere ;)
    I check the forums daily, even though I'm not all that active here anymore.

    I hope that emphasizes that I will absolutely finish this game in the coming years.

    After our first release, I am hoping to use some of the funds to expand the team to create this game more quickly (make up for lost time), to insure it has higher quality (will remain pixel art though), and to give the content more diversity. (More unique sentient aliens, creatures, microorganisms, planet types, events/story, etc.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016