A Bit Of A Personal Programming Question

Blue= I should not to go school
Red= I should go to school

I already know a lot of game art and animation and some coding. I have already started using unity. But, I got a small personal question before starting my game development school.
"Does most game programmer worker never took a post secondary school, because it is easy to be self taught?" -OR- most game programmer should get a degree to get a job with more chances.

So, far I have find programming is a bit too easy, but I am not so sure will learning the advance programming will be hard yet, unless there is so much open free sources to learn the advance programming easily.

Should I self taught in this Programming Listed with physics, GPU programming, statistics, AI, UI, tool programming, mobile, and maybe more? I find out that I might need more time to learn all this Programming Listed and I am unclear can I self taught all of this Programming Listed yet. I will be staying home for a very long time to be self taught from the open sources and making my own game demo reel all by myself that might be not as good without working with your classmate team at school.

I have google searched that 48% of developers never did have a degree.

Can someone please give me a suggestion or tips or more facts at least? And how hard is to be self taught enough to get a job?

--------------------
Here is some of my background that I am not really a nooby lame person, because I am good at game art and animation. I am just proceeding from my animation skills to game development skills. Hopefully I am good enough to be self taught in game programming to get a programmer job.

 

You could google this. The thread comes up all the time.

The community is pretty much split on this. About half will tell you to get a solid foundation with a computer science degree. The other half will tell you to just go make games.

You also have the option of doing both. Programming is a discipline that requires constant learning.

 

I would encourage you to go to college for programming (but not for game specific programming), and then work on games in your free time. Games are a creative pursuit, with a few huge hits and a bunch of misses. Programming can be a very steady income source, since there will always be businesses that need good programmers.

In addition to going to college to get a programming degree, you will also make other connections at college. It is an excellent place to meet other smart people who want to make cool things including games. This is one of the reasons you hear about college dropouts who launched tech companies and made it big, but you don't hear about as many people who skipped college and did the same. I am a huge proponent of self teaching, but I readily admit that the college environment can be an excellent place to launch companies.

 

I'd imagine the reason the community is split on formal education or going it alone because it reflects their own experiences. For example I am self taught, so I just advocate others do the same.

TLDR stop trying to avoid work, and get on with it, whatever form of learning you choose. Just do it now.

But, judging by the image and video above, you're nowhere remotely in the league required to get an art job. I think your best bet is indie tbh, my two cents.

 

IMO self taught is more challenging with little to no reward. A university can help make friends and gather a professional circle to help each other out.
Self taught can often overlook aspects, it's helpful to be able to pull out the set theory or binary division, they are the kind curve balls a interviewer likes to throw. How big is a integer? What's the difference between a array and a list? Stuff no one really cares about and can be googled, also first year comp sci stuff and things lots of people don't know.

Why? I see this attitude lots and it annoys me. Probably 90% of indies who have even remote success have extensive history in larger studios. If his work is not up to scratch to work at a studio then why would running a competing studio even be a remote possibility?

I see there being three sets of indies:

Set one has no industry experience and are mostly incompetent. Relying off of the advice of other is what these studios need to stay afloat, but usually they are a sinking ship... most indies are these people.

The second set are the people who are unprepared for indie work but have a bunch of industry experience. They just aren't cut out to run a studio, some of these get around it with mad skills, some don't. These people probably run a indie studio for a year or two then return to the basement of some massive publisher. If they succeed it's probably because they have friends who can give great advice and feedback, and have the skills to make a great game.

The third set are people whom indie success is no matter of chance, rather time. Pretty much these people come from leadership and senior background(But not always). They worked at large studios who entrusted big projects to them and now they decided to do there own thing. Prior experience basically means that instead of answering to some VP or studio GM they are doing whatever they want.

Any of the three can have success but it's far rarer on the first then the second two.

 

This is one of the big challenges of self teaching. Its easy to leave big gaping holes in your knowledge around principles you just haven't encountered. A structured learning environment is no guarantee that these holes will be covered, but it does give a better chance.

Alternatively you can flip this around. Being self taught normally leads to only learning the things that are actually important. There are plenty of things you learn in degrees that you might never actually use in your career.

 

If you don't want to go to college then don't go to college. BUT definitely don't do that if you think it is an easier road. Because it won't be. You'll need to "hit the books" and the keyboard either way. You'll need to prove you can "really do it" and that you "really truly understand it".

At the same time, if you choose to go to college don't look at it like you just go to college and then you are done. I've met (and had the unfortunate experience of working with) folks with Masters who actually believed that because they had the degree that was it... they figured they put their time in and now were set. Reality soon encouraged them to pursue a different career.

Point being, either route you take this stuff is a life long study. You will always be learning. New tech whether hardware or software comes out often and some of that you will need to learn as well. And besides that you can spend a lifetime just always improving and truly striving to be "the master" of this stuff.

 

What? If you're going to be a good programmer then people do care and those are things you should absolutely know, especially in the field of games programming. Interviewers whipping them out aren't just trying to throw a "curve ball", they're seeing if you actually understand how a computer works, what the differences between various containers are, and so on.

Yes, you can search for it and find an answer, but if you have to do that then chances are that you're not applying that fundamental level of knowledge when you're designing things. Or, worse, you're not even designing things.

Those things might not matter most of the time, but when they do matter they're important.

 

A little from column A, a little from column B. The "Basic Knowledge Pop Quiz" interview is worthwhile if you have to fill a position requiring little or no experience (which, to be fair, applies here). But if you're interviewing somebody with significant and relevant dev experience, your just wasting his time. I've known (and employed) waaaay too many senior devs who view the interview process as a chance to show off to the new guy. When hiring an experienced dev I'm far more interested in how he thinks and works. In my history of management experience I've had far greater troubles with people who just can't handle the big picture than I've ever had with somebody making a poor double/float choice. Obviously you can't completely ignore the knowledge question, but I've seen plenty of hiring done purely on the basis of an hour of Information Technology Trivia.

 

If someone has "significant and relevant dev experience", you can pretty much assume they know the difference between an array and a list and why it is important. Because I can't see anybody employing a programmer who doesn't know the very basics of organizing data in efficient ways depending on the needs of a particular situation for a very long time.

I mean, come on. Seriously.

And it's not like universities force you to commit the size of an integer to memory, either. But knowing what an integer is, why it has a finite size, and where that size comes from is... kind of important. Enjoy debugging your integer overflows otherwise!

An alternative would be something like an apprenticeship, if you can get something like that where you live - less theoretical than university/college, but will still give you a lot of the fundamentals.

(Full disclosure: I'm currently taking the "study CS" route. Not entirely happy with it, but a lot of the stuff I am learning right now is highly relevant to what I do in my side job. So yeah, if you're smart enough for university, I guess that's a significantly easier route than self-learning.)

 

Not going to say whether or not you should get a qualification, it's a big thing.

However, if you do want to get qualified, get an all-purpose degree. Computer Science, or a similar degree choice is ideal. Getting a degree in something niche is possibly more a curse than a blessing. I've been involved in projects including Mass Media, Support, Web, Education and now (hopefully) Games, but have all purpose qualifications.

I somewhat doubt that I would have been employed/involved in the roles I have had, if my degree had really specific connotations attached to it.

 

Because small indies and one man bands do not need to compete in the same space as those who hire for jobs. That's a level above, and requires a higher standard of production quality. Doesn't mean you need to compete though, earning 50k a year for an indie is a fine job, vs a company above requiring a few million.

Surely you can understand there's different levels in this industry and they don't compete with each other?

 

I probably didn't make my point very well, but angrypenguin was saying interviewers don't ask their technical questions just to throw a curve ball, but in my experience that is often exactly how people conduct developer interviews (more because people don't seem to be very good at interviewing developers).

 

Possible. I'm not very experienced at getting interviewed, so I might have misread you as well. I'm really mostly commenting on TylerPerry's post and his notions on what you need to know as a dev.

 

It goes like this.

Unity programming is child's play compared to application development.
You can teach yourself, but it is not "easy" and will take few years of your time. And that's few years of programming a lot, not just writing few lines of code on a weekend.
School also don't guarantee that you'll become a good programmer.

There's no easy access to information on advanced topics. Majority of information on the web is for beginners. Once you stop being a beginner, you'll be on your own with nobody to help you. Beginner may think there are gurus willing to share their secrets with the world. In reality there are no gurus. If there are gurus, they're busy and tired and don't want to help you with your stuff, that's why they actively avoid anyone who could possibly ask them questions.

Few (I'd say 3..5) years of practicing non-stop and being passionate about programming.

In my opinion, self-learning may give you awesome practical skills but may also leave gaping holes in fundamental knowledge, while school may give you solid foundation but also may leave you with no practical skills whatsoever.

So, just pick your poison.

 

I agree that most interviewers are just "winging it" and have little more experience interviewing than the person being interviewed. I remember buying several books long ago on interviewing and studied them thoroughly to help prepare for interviews. When I went to one interview I was surprised to see a copy of one of the same books I had bought on the bookcase behind the interviewer.

I basically knew how the interview would be structured from my own study of that book. The interview went very well and I got the job. And this person was more prepared for the interview than most.

At the end of the day these are just people. They don't have some kind of magical powers or other things that any other person cannot get by putting some time into study and practice. They aren't generally professional interviewers. Usually that is just one small part of their job. If you want to interview exceptionally well then focus on learning about interviewing. Most of the time the person on the other side of the phone (in the case of pre-screening) or desk is just as nervous as you are.

 

The correct answer is "in which language?", by the way.

 

And you'll find people who know everything but have terrible problem solving skills when their task cannot use more than 0.2ms on a console. They're like "but... but... " and only know the correct way.

Problem with game development is you will find yourself between many rocks and hard places. Problem solving skills != knowledge learned. In cases like this you need someone who's bright enough not to need threads like this.

Yeah I think classical training helps, and I would recommend it for people looking for a career. It's just not enough though.

 

"Basic" programming is in fact very easy, this is what you're finding. As you get into more advanced topics, things will be not so easy until you've done them a few times (some things require more and just thinking about it for awhile). And the learning never stops with CS. Every 5 years what you are used to becomes irrelevant (as a general rule).

If you're the type that finds classes move far too slow and you're bored in them, self-study and learning can be the way to go if you have enough initiative to keep at it. However, it won't be so easy to get that first job unless you have a good portfolio to show. It may be hard to get a good portfolio without being able to get that first job too.

Having a college degree is never a bad thing, but no need to go to really expensive schools and get very in debt.

I don't have a degree but do have a high programming position these days. I would say that I made the most improvement in my skills once I had a real day job programming vs doing it on my own at home, so to me the most important part is to "get your foot in the door" at some company, then keep learning and pick the brain of those better at it than you. However that first part might be tough to accomplish for some without obtaining a degree first.

 

I am trying to apply for a game programming university degree instead of computer science. Is my Game Programming University Degree that is mixed with some 3rd year level of Computer Science too easy? That game programming university degree is also mixed with the 1st year university physics, math, calculus and statics.

Here is my game programming university degree code sample from Java where they will be teaching. Is my school challenging enough to get a programming job at least? Not, so sure what is this code sample means, but I think it is something about audio physics and sound effects.
try {

File file = new File(“…”);

AudioInputStream stream =

AudioSystem.getAudioInputStream(file);

AudioFormat format = stream.getFormat();

} catch(Exception ex) {

// IOException or UnsupportedAudioFileException

}

try {

DataLine.Info info =

new DataLine.Info(SourceDataLine.class,format);

line = (SourceDataLine) AudioSystem.getLine(info);

line.open(format,bufferSize);

} catch(Exception ex) {

// LineUnavailableException

}

-----Or maybe something about network programming.-----

try {

ServerSocket server = new ServerSocket(10997);

while (running) {

Socket client = server.accept();

InputStream in = client.getInputStream();

OutputStream out = client.getOutputStream();

...

// handle the client

...

in.close();

out.flush();

out.close();

client.close();

};

server.close();

} catch (Exception e) {

e.printStackTrace();

};

 

You can not judge your uni's level from just one snippet of Java code, without getting at least some context about what exactly that code is meant to demonstrate, if it is the first or the last snippet in a chapter, an early or late chapter, an early or a late course in your studies and what additional information is given.

Also, you can not learn programming from reading other people's code. You need to get your hands dirty because programming is *not* copying a bunch of stuff from other people. It is a methodical skill that requires training of thinking patterns and techniques. Does your school teach you that or do you just memorize code snippets for certain situations?

If you think small, "basic" programs don't challenge you, the right idea isn't to to just do another small, basic program for another topic because you can still just solve that via copy & paste from Stack Overflow. Instead, try going bigger and tackle larger problems. Why not try your hand at a small chess engine? You can do it in Unity, or you could do it entirely console-based, who cares, that's not what's actually important. What's important is you have to research, evaluate and develop data structures and algorithms for complex problems. And you really need to be able to look at other people's code and figure out what it means, even if that means you need to look into API documentations a lot.

 

Which may have to be followed up with "with which compiler?" and rarely "for which platform?".

 

Or even "on which database provider"?

 

The following quote summarizes the mistake you are making:

Fix this attitude problem, and I think your choice will be a lot more clear.
So you say "programming is too easy" because you didn't have to work too hard to learn whatever you currently know?
Unless you have a few years paid experience as a programmer at a few different companies doing different kinds of work, you really have no way of knowing if this easyness is due to you being good, or if you have only tried to do easy things!

I took a piano class once, and it was easy. By the end of a semester, I could play simple songs that sounded musical and not like noise. Does that mean I am ready to be a professional?

Programming is a serious study. That means there is an unlimited amount of work to do and things to learn. If you find it easy, it means you are being lazy. Go write a program that isn't easy, and then decide if you need college.

 

You do realise that hardly anyone earns 50k as an indie?
It's a pipe dream that indies are not competing, they sell on the same store and to the consumers. At least almost always.

 

50k? very achievable for almost anyone and the only option open to the vast majority vs 0k, because the vast majority actually have a much bigger chance of 50k than they do getting a paying job in the field, because the paying job in the field requires more expertise.

 

Google told me that the average solo indie earnt 11k. While the average member of a indie team earnt 51k. Over 50% of games made less then $500 while only 2% made over 200k...

Perhaps it's my previous thoughts that taint my view but those numbers do seem to suggest that experienced developers can make money while developers without a strong professional circle are far more likely to fail.

 

My point is if you can't make 50k as an indie you probably (most likely) lack the skill to get a job in the industry. Assuming this person gave it all they had as a business. Use 10k if it's easier to swallow, the fact remains IMHO.

 

Is it possible that some of these solo indie devs are part-timers or students earning some money on the side? I could see that distorting the statistics a bit, but am not really an insider...

 

Oh yep, I get you! That's true.

 

I'm just saying it's easier to cut corners as an indie, so if it looks like you're quite far from what an employer wants, you probably have a good chance of doing something if determined, I guess.

 

Depends on where you go to college and how much it costs. You can easily sink 50K USD+ in the USA, have to take a bunch of classes that mean diddly squat that you still have to pay for, endure professors propagandizing you with their personal viewpoints in non computer related courses. You may also have to sink four years of your life for a degree that you could have learned the equivalent in less, much less or very little time in comparison and be in debt to boot and end up writing business software just to pay down your debt..

OTOH..portfolio, portfolio, portfolio. And freelancing for your rent and food and other bills whilst building a portfolio of clients work and your spare time work.. Client demands and deadlines can often teach you a heck of alot more in a very short time..and your incentive is that you need to get it done or do not eat.

 

Actually while I agree skill-wise I think that a lot of people wouldn't be able to handle it for different reasons. It helps a lot if you're going from industry to indie, but entering the field as an indie is like sending your ego into a minefield without a map. Most people probably couldn't handle the continuous mistakes, fail-and-get-up-again and lack of financial return that marks the beginning of it. Not to mention all the caring people who think that 'helping' means trying to talk you out of it at every opportunity.

 

Ok, let me rephrase that... I don't think you should assume they're using it as a "curve ball" and, even if they are, you should still know the answer! At least to the examples given. Knowledge of data types and data structures is pretty fundamental. If you don't know that stuff then, quite honestly, how are you developing algorithms to solve problems in computer code?


Edit: Also, I was responding pretty specifically to the examples given. If someone asks you either of the examples in question they most likely are not trying to "show off", and if you think they are then I'd have strong second thoughts about taking a job with them! Past that, though, I expect that they're taking the first step in seeing if you actually understand how to solve problems with computers, as compared to the many people out there who just parrot out pre-existing solutions.

 

My experience in non gaming is similar to what MV10 said. I've participated in 4+ months of interviews for a position because certain members of my group enjoy throwing irrelevant tech trivia at otherwise qualified candidates and making them look stupid. Don't be that kind of interviewer, it's annoying.

The tendency is for people to accept it because they've already made it through the gauntlet so it's only fair new recruits have to also go through it. I can tell you after my first 6+ hour interview I was almost ready to turn down the position when it was offered to me. Yet for a little while even I bought into this as acceptable when I was working in that environment.

 

I think we've all gotten a little off track. Yes there are interviewers that try and be annoying by throwing out random tech trivia. Part of this is just learning how to interview, one of the first things I try and establish before going into an interview is who the interviewer is. You need to interview differently for a technical person then for an HR person.

The debate is exactly where the line between technical trivia and fundamental technical knowledge lies. The difference between a list and an array is probably fundamental technical knowledge. Knowing that an int has a size limit, and where to find it, is fundamental knowledge. Knowing all ten digits of the upper and lower limit of an int is probably trivia.

Dealing with technical questions you can't answer in an interview is pretty straight forward, regardless of if they are trivia or fundamentals. Simply be honest, tell them you don't know the answer, and then provide a concise description of how you would find the answer. In my field that goes something like this "I couldn't tell you that off the top of my head. But I can look it up in Perry's for you." If asked what the upper limit of an int was you can say "That's something I would have to pull up MSDN for."

Often interviewers are not just interested in what you can do now, but how quickly you can pick up new challenges. I've got hired after interviews that include statements like "I've never done that before, but I'm a fast learner and could pick it up quickly".

 

With advice in general, my advice would be() that you're better off looking for some local developers that you actually know work in the industry. Lot's of people on this forum are not actually in the industry and for that reason their advice should be considered lesser(Sorry people, but it's true!)

 

Further to the trivia in interviews question. In my industry at least its also considered good form to spit out some technical trivia of your own in an interview. If you pick and choose an area that you are strong in, then you can often pre-empt the interviewer needing to delve into technical stuff you might not be familiar with. Its considered the interviewees job to sell themselves and their abilities. The interviewer often has multiple candidates, and is simply looking to find reasons to reject them.

Totally valid. My advice in particular is often sketchy.

Its also worth considering geographical locations. What works for an indie in Melbourne where there is no AAA industry is probably different from what works in the US. This is particularly important when considering degrees, different levels of government funding mean degrees cost different amounts. In Aus/NZ a degree is cheap enough to practically be a no brainier. And the education industry is regulated enough to guarantee a minimum quality. The cost and quality in other parts of the world differs widely.*

* Not trying to turn this into another debate over which system is better. That got me in trouble on several other threads, so lets not go there. Just pointing out that the systems are different, and which system a poster lives under should be taken into consideration.

 

Have you ever had a situation where the interviewer didn't know the trivia you threw at them?

 

It happens. When you are hired for a mid to senior level technical role you are expected to know more about your subject matter then the people you work for. My boss frequently has me in to go over fairly basic chemistry principles. In that interview scenario you have to be careful that you are not the one coming across as annoying. Technical people are pretty useless if they can't translate their knowledge and skills into things the company can use.

I tend to have a some what specialised skill set, I'm a chemical engineer that can write applications and databases and the like. Its not unheard of, there are plenty like me, but its far from common. Often the interviews are about selling that angle, programming is one of the skills I have that differentiates me from all the other chemical engineers out there.

 

I have been approached by at least a dozen recruiters for senior positions in the last year and I always check GlassDoor for reviews. I find the most idiotic questions that some companies have asked during interviews. Example...They want a Senior Unity dev but the question is "You have an object with one million polygons and fire a bullet at it. What is the quickest method to find out the polygon the bullet hit to place a decal." To start with Unity cannot handle one million polygon objects. Second I would find the place on the UV map and not the polygon via the mesh collider and a raycast. Third I would have told them the object should have been optimized first. I know they were trying to get applicants to blither on about binary searches but it lead me to think..these clowns do not understand Unity..I wouldn't work there. They then asked something about shifting registers in microcontrollers using some heiroglyphic syntax and colons and semicolons. This again has nothing to do with Unity and iPhone games. Useless hoops to jump through.

Plus most of the companies were in areas where a single room cost 1K USD a month and a house is over 3K USD. I pay 600 a month and have a lake, 2 acres of land, no close neighbors, 20 million year old crystal clear aquifer spring water to drink and cheap food fresh from the local farmer. And if my cockatoo can't come to the office with me there is no deal. She is a rescue and was abandoned by the former owner and had plucked herself near bald when i got her. It has taken five years to get her partially refeathered and she is only lately getting over the fact that because I left the house she is not abandoned. Once I left overnite and when I returned she had yanked major blood feathers and there was blood drips all over and her feathers stained. I cried. Sorry..your job is not worth it compared to this little precious life. The puppy I recently got stays with her when I do go out and the feather plucking is now near zero.

 

This is like a list of what not to do....

Yes it can, just because it splits them up into 65k vert objects does not mean that Unity does not support million or above objects.

So you'd directly not give them what they want?

I work on projects in Unity with huge meshes like that. "Optimizing" the objects is not an option and quite frankly doesn't make sense, it would just waste time for something we don't need.

TBH any one of those things would have lead to you not getting the job at my work. The last one probably would have lead to the interview being ended right then and you being told that you're not appropriate for the job.

I honestly just don't know... like for real? If you don't like the job you don't have to take it but show some respect in a interview and at least do what they ask... you're just wasting their time.

 

Frankly, it is not interviewers job to answer your trivia or even know the answer. Interviewer's job is to filter out completely useless and toxic candidates. Someone who knows answer to trivia will be working as a programmer, not as interviewer.

That's actually a very good multi-purpose question that checks your knowledge of collision detection algorithms and optimizing space overlap queries. It is not unity-specific. Person that knows how to write this query from scratch has different skill level compared to someone who knows how to do it in unity.

 

A. I don't want the job at your work. I have worked freelance for 30 years. I don't like offices and oftimes like to work in the middle of the night and nap in the afternoon.. Last office I worked in was in 1982 for Turner Outdoor
B.I know the 65K limit. To me that makes it split into several objects. The object was one set of one million polys. I would have to iterate through a dozen meshes to find the poly position in 3D space matching the raycast and I couldn't do that without a mesh collider regardless. I apply decals via mesh colliders and UV maps.. My takeaway was they didn't know crap about Unity.
C.I didn't interview and did not want the job. They wasted my time and not vice versa. It was clear to me they were anal retentive tech heads and I have no desire to be around such. I am a creative that knows how to program. Anal retentive and creative do not mix. GlassDoor rocks.
D. I wouldn't hire you for a project I was lead on because of your obfuscatory attitude. To turn the tables back atcha. Jeesh.

 

True and I know how to do a binary search to get to the root answer rapidly. But this was for Unity tech and therefore i would approach the answer from a Unity centric perspective. Nowhere in my LinkedIn profile they approached ME from does it say I have a CompSci degree. They wanted me from my Unity experience and arts portfolio. I only answer these queries out of curiosity and am sincerely not interested in moving or changing the way i work. I already have several clients and executive titles with a few companies who let me be me and not some unit in a collective.

 

A strange comment to me. Most places I have worked have programmers do interviews for programmers. At least as *part* of the interview loop, and definitely the part that asks programming trivia. I've had it happen where I answer some of their questions with a question, meaning there's not such a simple answer, and inevitably don't get offers at those places. I think because they may see me as a threat, knowing more than the "expert" interviewers on a certain subject. I'm sure many of us have had this happen.

 

The comment is based on a similar question I saw elsewhere. The dude basically asked if he could ask interviewer a question back (which sounded as an attempt to "outsmart" or "get back" at the interviewer).

Now, this kind of attitude is a good way not to get hired, because it may indicate that the candidate is a toxic asset. A new employee would need to coexist with whoever else is on the team. If the candidate can't handle a simple interview without trying to prove that he's "the best", the existing team may be better off without him, because other people may not be in the mood for dealing with this kind of stuff. An employee is a cog in organization. When cog tries to be "extra special cog" or something like that, it starts causing trouble to everybody else. Because of this a less skilled programmer with good social skills may be a better choice than a genius a******.

A company may also have HR department, which may be unable to program, because that's not their job.

Generally, I think that asking interviewer trivia is a bad idea, because you're wasting their time and yours. Ask about workplace, projects, etc.

 

Getting back to the original question, does anyone here feel as if their dev-related education actually helped them land a significant IT job -- or to the contrary, does anyone without a degree feel as if that either held them back or was not an issue?

In my case I landed a programming job straight out of high school and never looked back -- but that was when computers were still hand-cranked and cell phone batteries were carried in briefcases. I've never been in a position to hire a dev where I paid any attention to their education. For me it's always been all about work experience.

Although I do know of a few corporate IT positions in town for which a degree is mandatory, regardless of experience. (The irony being any degree will qualify ... underwater basket-weaving and you're in.)

 

His industry is chemical engineering and he stated it was normal for interviews to have trivia from both sides. I was simply curious how often the interviewer actually knew the trivia being thrown back at them.

That said I have to disagree with the idea that the interview doesn't have at least some form of skill evaluation. It may not be the job of the primary interviewer but I would expect an actual programmer, most likely a senior programmer, to be brought out temporarily to evaluate the interviewee's skills. Otherwise determining who is and isn't useless wouldn't be possible.

 

@Ryiah that is true. And often the tech folks come into play during the pre-interview screening. I've been through that over the phone a couple different times. Once with one person on the other end and once with 3 people on the other end. In the latter case each was an expert in their area. The idea being someone throws out the majority of applicants. Then they hand off that filtered pile to the tech people. They then select some folks to call. And they filter it way down based on the tech interview. Finally a few people move on to an onsite meeting which is often at that point more of a "would we want to be working with this guy or gal every day? What are they like as a person?" kind of thing.

I should say this is in my non game related IT experience.