6 people full time + 12 months = 1 game (3D "point and click" adventure game like "Life is Strange")

Hi

Is it possible to develop a 3D "point and click adventure game" (think of Life is Strange, Syberia (the last two ones who are in 3D), Detroit Become human (with way less of production value of course), the newer Sherlock Holmes games... Etc. I think you get the picture.

Game Characteristics:

• - 3D "point and click adventure"(like Life is Strange, Syberia, Detroit Become Human, Sherlock Holmes games...) etc.
• - Unity or Unreal Engine
• - "Deduction mechanism" (like in all new "detective" adventure games (agatha christie poirot games, Sherlock Holmes etc.), otherwise pretty much standard adventure games mechanisms, nothing special, no "extra hard to develop" game mechanisms planned...
• - PC platform (steam)
• - 8 hours of gameplay (approximately)
• - Really no real "story or choice" branching at all (NO "Detroit become human", NO "Dark pictures Anthalogy"), rather a linear experience.
• - Heavy useage of various bought "pre-made" assets (3D, "code" etc.) to speed up and "cheapen" development
• - Fully english voice acted (of course)

6 people payed full time (experienced people (at least one title shipped)) + externists (sound, music, voice acting, translation etc.) , 12 months of development

1. - One programmer experienced in Unity/Unreal Engine
2. - One Level Designer in the Engine. - Im not sure about this, but he might partially be also doing "3D Generalists stuff" because im not sure he needs 12 months for the work, i think he should be able to finish all the "maps" (locations) sooner than 12 months... But im not sure about this point...(any map makers out there...?)
3. - One 3D Animator ( we will use Mocap and probably Facial capture as well, so he will have way less work because of this) i assume that he should finish the work in half the time (6 months instead of 12, so the remaining 6 months im planning to use him as a 3D generalist (or hire dedicated 3D generalist instead of him for the remaining 2nd 6 months of development).
4. - 1st 3D Graphic Designer - Character Artist specialization - We will use "easier" solutions for characters -Metahuman, Character Creator etc. Im not planning to sculpt a lot of characters from "nothing"/beggining. The same goes for clothing. We will try to use "easier" "pre-made" solutions, but some brand new work in Marvelous Designer will be probably still needed. Still again, im somewhat "confident" he can finish all the characters because of this sooner than in 12 months, so in the "free time", im planning to use him also as a "3D generalist"...
5. - 2nd 3D Graphic Designer - "Generalist" (Props, Enviroments etc.)
6. - 3rd 3D Graphic Designer - "Generalist" - myself. Although because i will be doing all the other stuff around the project , im planning I might be able to allocate only like 50% of my time (at most, probably even less) to 3D graphics itself...

So 6 "experienced" (at least one title shipped i would like from them to have) people, full time, 12 months...
Its HARD to predict of course but according to me, it COULD and SHOULD be possible/doable to make this game...?

2 things im a bit worried:

1st) Is only one programmer sufficient...? But again, we are talking about basically a "point and click adventure" (in 3D) ... I just cannot see why one (experienced) programmer that can buy/use all the "code" from engine marketplace he wants, should have a problem with that... Im not building the next AI (ChatGPT), im building a "frickin" "point and click adventure" game (basically) in 3D...

2nd) Im not sure if I have enough of 3D graphic designers... I have one dedicated Generalist, then me (0,5x time generalist), thats "1 and a half" (1,5) 3D generalist... Than i have a dedicated 3D character artists... I really assume that he should be able to finish with all the character stuff way sooner than in 12 months and thus should help with 3D generalist stuff. The same goes for the 3D animator... Im not sure about the Engine Level/map editor guy though... He might need all those 12 months...?

So... whats your experience, tips, predictions, oppinions... Do you think its a reasonable number of people (6 full time guys) and development time (12 months) for such game...?

(Also if anybody has any links, articles etc. about how much time each game genre takes to develop, or simply some writtings/info in this direction i would be glad to read it, i wasnt able to find much (nothing really) in this specific issue of gamedev)...?

Thanks

 

You can buy the models available on the asset store, don't let the programmer wait for input from anyone. The game will be completed first, and then replace the model, arts, and sounds after that.

 

I made a 3D Point&Click Game in a weekend with two friends for the Ludum Dare Game Jam.
Here is the link -> https://leorid.itch.io/lapis-vitae

If that's the production value you'd be happy with, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible.

But with facial animations this sounds like a graphics heavy game where characters really matter. Depending on how many detailed, perfectly rigged and animated characters you want, this could be an issue on the 12 Months.

Also how about the game design? Is really everything planned? Who will do all the audio stuff (SFX, Music)? Who will create all the 2D Art (everything UI, dialogues, inventory, titlescreen, menu, steam capsule/banner)? Who will do the marketing? Who will create the trailer? What platforms do you want to release on? How will collaboration work? Someone has to assemble the game - and with only one programmer, I'm not sure if he/she will have time to make user-friendly tools which the level designer or you could use, as well as explaining those tools (Dialogue Trees, Settings Menu, ..).

If you want to be done in 12 months, the game should be finished in 4. Because it won't. A game made by a fresh assembled team will take atleast three times as long as you expect, I've seen this multiple times with my own assembled teams. Finding the right communication between everyone, how you have to explain certain things, especially the collaboration between artists and the programmer takes a lot of time and a lot of tries (tools will be used in the wrong way, some will be programmed in the wrong way and have to be rewritten - both because of communication issues that need to be resolved during development).

And making the game you said in 4 months seems quite impossible, doesn't it? 8h of playtime, multiple characters with face rigs and other animations, logic puzzles with an inventory that need to be playtested ... If you really want to finish it in 12 months, I guess you will have to cut some features.

 

The programming part of a point click is fairly trivial. The main problem is assets.

What you seem to be missing in your team is person responsible for music. Voice acting can detract from your game if not done professionally.

 

What is your team‘s point of view? Did you plan and estimate tasks with the team?

You should discuss that post‘s content with your team, not us, because we know hardly anything about the project, the team, the funding, the work environment, and everything else.

 

This is one of the very rare cases where you practically don't need a programmer at all. That's an exaggeration, but for this specific type of game there's an excellent asset called Adventure Creator that is actually complete, fully functional end-to-end, and has been used to make many successful 3D point-and-click games.

For lipsync and facial expression, use SALSA LipSync Suite. You won't need a lipsync animator. However, you may want to replace your 3D Animator position with a modeller & rigger.

If you use Adventure Creator and SALSA, a 12-month release date is possible. (But follow Hannibal_Leo's advice to aim for feature-complete in 4-6 months.) Apart from those two assets, don't go crazy with Asset Store tools. Many of them will take more time to learn and get working in your game than the amount of time you'd save. For this specific type of game, you pretty much just need Adventure Creator and SALSA. Also, as mentioned above, don't get distracted by art assets early on. Get everything working with rudimentary art first, then replace the art.

You can also reduce the number of graphic designers. Replace at least one with a writer / narrative designer. Everyone thinks they can write, until they actually have to. If you join the IGDA's Game Writing SIG's Discord server, you'll find lots of great writers. You need a writer, but you can cut some of the graphic designers to conserve budget to hire voice actors, a composer (unless you use off-the-shelf music), and an audio designer. You can often hire these roles on a short-term contract basis. You'll also want to hire a marketing / social media person. This doesn't have to be a full-time role. As for your own time, don't assume you'll have full time hours available to create content. You'll be spending a lot of your time doing project management.

The old rule of thumb of $10K/month/person (if you're hiring in North America/Europe) still holds true. So make sure you've budgeted for that.

 

might be a good idea to do a short, no-money test run first on your own, or with just a couple people willing to work just for experience. Go all the way through and publish whatever you make, even if its junk. This way you have a clear idea what is involved before you start guessing at things with your money.

if you are the leader you have to actually be the leader - if you know the least about making games then you have to defer to everybody else, going to make decision-making a arduous process. You don't have to be the expert in each field, but you have know how each fits together enough to trust yourself to be able to set priorities.

 

I forgot to reply to one more thing: You need that level designer. Don't put them on 3D generalist work, too. When we're just getting started in game dev, our first thought is "can I make a game at all?", so we focus on the obvious technical hurdles: programming and art. But you'll eventually need to think "can I make a game that's good?" And that almost invariably requires a narrative designer and a level designer. A level designer doesn't just create maps. They have to understand how players see the level, how they're going to want to traverse it and interact with it, how it needs to be lit and staged to highlight certain areas or convey a specific atmosphere, and how to construct all of this in a way that's efficient to render and efficient to make adjustments to. It's one of the most challenging roles in game dev.

 

@TonyLi

as usual very informative post, just thought I'd mention (since I'm completely wasting this evening) that you've replied to this same person about same questions in 2014, lol.

great post regardless

 

Don't ask me to remember 9 hours ago, much less 9 years ago. ;-)

Funny that I recommended the same asset back then, too. For point-and-clicks in Unity, you can't beat Adventure Creator.

 

Thank you, especially the part with your own game.
Can i ask how long it approximately is? And did your programmer use any "unity markeplace code assets" (like for example the adventure creator kit (or how is it called) or any other code...?

Thanks

 

Well im too am rather convinced that the programming should be that of a problem... (meaning 1 programmer for 12 motnhs should be enough...)

Music and Voice acting will be outsorced (as per usual for indies)

 

theres no team yet , this is just at the beggining phase of planning, thats why im asking here, since i dont have anyone else to ask . Im planning to start in two years at earliest (since only then should i have the budget).

 

Thanks

I did know about Adventure Creator (or similiar tools in general), but i really did not know they are used to create even 3D "point and click" adventure (i would assume "something similiar" to the aforementioned Life is Strange)? Can you please tell me which (the biggest/best) 3D adventures it was used to do it?

 

Lol... how do you know that? Even I dont remember that!

Also, not sure if i can ask her, but from the little you know about the project from the 1st post...
Whats engine do you think is a better fit for such a game? Unreal or Unity...?

If it would be 2D or 2,5D i would go with Unity without any thought (probably), but since it should be full 3D, Unreal engine "slips in" as a possible choice here... Any experience/tips/recommendations in this regard?

 

well i was just curious because your account is nearly 10 years old but the way you are asking these questions seems like a beginner. I saw that you asked basicalyl the same question in 2014 and tony gave pretty much the same answer.

so before somebody takes the time to make a thoughtful response it's natural to wonder, is it worth the time? Will they do anything with it?


For this sort of game I'd go with tonys recommendation and not look back. unreal has a ton of perks and i generally recommend for 3d games but i think most of it wouldnt be much benefit for this genre, and in unity you have lots of tools built for the genre already + experts in the genre willing to help.

 

I don't keep up with adventure games any more so I don't know what the biggest or best would be but Colossal Cave by Cygnus Entertainment (founded by Ken and Roberta Williams the couple that originally founded Sierra Online) was created with it.

https://adventurecreator.org/forum/discussion/13184/colossal-cave-by-roberta-williams-coming-jan-19
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2215540/Colossal_Cave/

 

I coded everything from scratch.

• Character Movement based on NavMeshAgents.
• Puzzles partially modular, partially hardcoded (if I would do it again, I'd just hardcode all puzzles - it's much cleaner and more flexible this way. Changing something is much faster (just changing one line of code instead of 20 drag and drop operations)).
• The Inventory has no sorting.
• All Characters, Player and NPCs, are the same, just with different inputs (which lead to a critical bug because I used static variables and all Characters then had a certain item equipped lol).
• I made the Dialogue "System" inkl. all dialogues with NPCs 3h before the deadline

It would have taken way more time (more than 3 days for sure, more like 3 weeks) to learn how certain asset store asset work and to alter them to our needs than to just code it down.

Biggest problem was actually communication with the level designer, as mid-jam the level looked nothing like I had it in mind and we actually had to change a big part of the story and related puzzles because of it. If we had more time, we might would have changed the level instead. In the future I would never just write everything in text and expect that everyone follows this step by step, I would draw sketches or even do the blockout myself (this worked very well in more recent jams).

As Game Designer it's your responsibility to communicate the correct idea to everyone in their respective language -

• a programmer might be happy with a detailed list of requirements (combined with some references)
  -> e.g. we need dialogues with branches, with localization, which can transfer items, trigger animations, trigger game events, trigger telltale texts like "Harold will remember what you said", with .. whatever you need.
• The level designer might be happy with some kind of blockout or 2D-Sketches and References of other Games or a Mood-Board.
• The Sound-Dev probably needs to know about the emotions a certain area should evoke and if it's mysical, heroic, realistic, imaginary, scary, ... there might be a bit of back and forth in Discord-Calls where you explain which sounds should be different and why.
• In terms of graphic assets such as characters, it's often an iterative approach but for the basic idea you can usually send them a bunch of pictures like "this face, with that hat and the monocle plus a scrach over his left cheek" or "this box but with red warning symbols on all 6 sides"
• For 2D Art it's also an iterative back and forth usually. Request sketches, choose something and let them do their magic - usually works out after a few tweaks

And of course, besides just telling them what to do, you also have to manage priorities so everyone can work without waiting for someones work to be done. Jobs will shift towards the end, more playtesting will be required, more resarch (list of youtubers, subreddits to market, ..) and less modelling. Leveldesign and Coding usually takes as much time as there is available in my experience (I didn't just attend game jams, I've also worked on year long projects, just for clarification xD)

 

Instead of waiting two years to start a big planned project, I would recommend starting a very small project immediately. For example, design a 3D point and click game that uses inexpensive assets and has a very short story (maybe 30-60 minutes). Build the tiny game. Release the tiny game, and then get feedback from players.

The tiny game will not be as good as the larger game you were planning, and that is perfectly fine. The purpose of the small game is to give yourself lots of experience. Right now, you don't know what you don't know. Building and releasing a tiny project will give you a lot of insight into the process. For example, it will let you know if using Adventure Creator will be viable for your larger project.

As far as where to release, I would recommend releasing the tiny project on Steam. You will learn about how to use Steam by actually releasing a tiny game on Steam. That will help you in the future with larger projects.

The best way to learn how to build games is by actually building games. You won't know what questions to ask until you run into challenges during development. Build something tiny right away. Learn from it. Then build something slightly less tiny. Repeat that process a few times, and then you will probably have all of your questions answered enough to plan your larger project.

 

You should ask yourself, as others did pointed out, did you do anything in that direction since 2014?

Or you plan to come back in the next 10 years to ask same question?

What is your current plan of action. Because waiting another +two years, will get you knowhere, and you will be in exact same point as in 2014.