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[50% OFF] Surforge 1.4.0 - 3D rendered PBR texturing in Unity

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by Sergeyv_3d, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. Teila

    Teila

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    Unfortunately, that is one of those things you just have to do. There is no magic way to lay out UVs. I have heard good things about Headus, but it is expensive and for me not any easier than Maya LT for making UVs. You still have to mark and cut seams and unfold/unwrap.

    I recommend starting with a crate and working your way up to more complex models. No one likes to do that, but it truly is the best way to learn.
     
    Mark_01 and pixelsteam like this.
  2. SniperEvan

    SniperEvan

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    Hey again. I made a simple tutorial for unwrapping in Blender. It covers the basic unwrap features and has a few different examples. I'm still learning how to do this myself, so advice is welcome! I will make a better video in the future.

    Creating good UV coordinates makes texturing with Surforge a breeze! :D
     
    frbrz, tosvus, antoripa and 3 others like this.
  3. pixelsteam

    pixelsteam

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    Awesome thank you for this and your great help with Blender and Surforge. Great tutorial!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  4. jc_lvngstn

    jc_lvngstn

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    When I was first struggling with uv mapping, in many situations I was getting too caught up in trying to unwrap to some an ideal or perfectly-optimized unwrap of an object. But that's just my curse, I started out programming on a computer with 16k of memory and I tend to get obsessed with optimization at times :)

    Anyway, I think I've gotten better, just by trial and error and learning over time. Blender really does have an excellent uv layout tool, it just takes learning the flow and what it can and can't do.
    I wouldn't mind seeing a book dedicated to uv unwrapping and such, even a somewhat small but comprehensive one.
     
    smada-luap likes this.
  5. jc_lvngstn

    jc_lvngstn

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    That was a very good uv mapping video, SniperEvan, thanks for making that!
     
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  6. smada-luap

    smada-luap

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    I'm still a little like that with my uv unwrapping - especially as I'm planning to get Surforge when I'm ready to start texturing, so I'm trying to maximise each section as best I can to offer the greatest available area to put in details via Surforge :)

    You can probably gather from this that I'm probably a little too OCD about it at the moment. That, and I also starting programming back in the 80s with a BBC Micro where optimising was key :D
     
  7. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    Good news, guys. Surforge 1.0.3 already submitted for review.

    Along with great performance optimization (the focus of this update), I also added 30 new mesh assets for Add Detail Tool. Hope you like it.
     
  8. laurentlavigne

    laurentlavigne

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    Hey @Sergeyv_3d, could you try surforge textures with Unitychan's anime shader? I'd like to see.
     
  9. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    surforgeHelmetToon.png
    Tested with UnityChan toon shader, works well.
    Great shader, what it does: you load two diffuse textures, for light and dark areas, and optional normal map.
    Shader divides that textures by lightning and also adds outline based on mesh offset. You could alter your light and dark textures by brightness/gamma/levels in your image editor, or you could choose different colors, as i did, to achieve interesting effects.

    The easiest way to use it with Surforge, is to use "export separate masks". This allows you to tweak your colors for UnityChan shader separately, as its results quite unpredictable and requires a lot of tweaking.
    Also the shader shows it's results only in Game window, and require your scene ambient set to flat white color.
     
    laurentlavigne likes this.
  10. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    Good news for those who only going to buy Surforge.
    I am happy to let you know that Surforge has been selected for the 24 Hour Sale.

    Date: March 30, 3pm CET - March 31, 3pm CET

    Do not miss your chance to snatch your copy of the most innovative texturing tool kit ever!

    It was hard two months full of 24/7 hard work since the first release. And I will not even tell you how much work was before the first release.
    Many things had to be corrected and improved. Now Surforge is becoming more like what I wanted it to be.
    Much more work ahead, many interesting improvements are planned.

    Thank you very much for supporting Surforge development.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
    punk, pixelsteam, Mark_01 and 5 others like this.
  11. jc_lvngstn

    jc_lvngstn

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    Excellent work, excellent tool! Congratulations!
     
  12. Teila

    Teila

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    Is it possible to add your own mesh assets as details?
     
  13. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    Sure! Surforge is based on Unity prefabs, and you could create your own.

    The easiest way to do it now - to copy an existing prefab, check for its properties, edit what you whant and than add it to the appropriate list of Assets\Surforge\AddDetailTool\placeMeshes.prefab for Add Detail, save project and restart Unity.
    You could also let Surforge to render any mesh as texture detail without creating the prefab. Just add it to the scene, use Unity Editor native transform tools to place in on your texture space and assign Surforge ID material (1-8 hotkeys).

    There is also a very promising video of third party detail set on YouTube made by Surforge user Rexx Thunder. Hope to see it available soon.
     
  14. lundon

    lundon

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    Oh, wow. So do I.
     
  15. Teila

    Teila

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    Great! I love what you have already but I am not making a science fiction game. My plan is to make some meshes for architectural details rather than sci fi parts. :) I am sure I will find uses for it just for the painting, but love the idea of making carved details on furniture or buildings as well as possible in the future on clothing accessories. .
     
  16. tosvus

    tosvus

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    It's gotta be good if someone with the name Rexx Thunder made it! :D
     
  17. tosvus

    tosvus

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    @Sergeyv_3d can you (and if so how) can we work with existing prefabs. Say I buy a good model-asset on the asset-store but want to customize the textures so it looks a bit different, or even if I want to duplicate it to have some variations of it in the scene - any advice? Seriously, Seriously thinking of picking this up today..
     
    Teila likes this.
  18. Teila

    Teila

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    What if I want to delete the sci fi prefabs and replace with my own? Can I do that?
     
  19. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    Carved detail usually involve sculpting or 3d modeling. There is no "magical" way to create volumetric stucco molding or wood carvings.
    If you have your meshes ready, you could add and use it in an effective combination with Surforge features. There is also the technique, which called by 3d artists "floaters" (negative offseted details). Surforge could use it too.

    Surforge is designed for creating textures from scratch, not for editing existing textures.
    But you could import your baked/custom normal map and AO map, to use as a base for surforge detail. You could also create a part of your texture with Surforge, export it with a mask, and compose in your image editor with existing set of textures if needed.
    There is a couple of videos, demonstrating the re-creating textures for models, downloaded from Asset Store.

    You could edit all Surforge assets lists, of course remove items too. For example remove all sci-fi game dev assets and add thematic assets, necessary for your work.
     
    frbrz and tosvus like this.
  20. Teila

    Teila

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    Yes, I know this and it was my plan to make my own detail models or purchasing detail meshes, which do exist. I do model, just looking for a way to pass off some of the work to my other artists who are not as skilled with the 3d modeling programs. :)

    I bought your asset earlier today so just making plans on how to use it. lol
     
    lundon likes this.
  21. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    Thank you very much for your purchase.

    I wanted to add, that Surforge is suitable not only for sci-fi.
    Poly Lasso, the main Surforge tool is powerfull and quite multi-purpose. You could easily create architectural things like boards, blocks, and all stuff, where splitting of elements and materials involved. There is a powerfull symmetry, snapping and offsets.
    There are also some handy prefabs for creating fantasy themed textures, such as celtic ornament tool with automated braiding.

    New modeling tools are also planned, as well as new detail assets. When added some ornament assets, i realized that it would be very handy to have something like spline deformer, to bend mesh assets around texture features, created by Surforge tools. I am exploring this direction now.
     
    Mark_01, DominoM, Teila and 1 other person like this.
  22. Mark_01

    Mark_01

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    I was watching and hoping Surforge would go on sale!! Dreams answered .. I got it today,
    congratulations, I can tell a lot of hard work went into this and am sure Surforge has a very bright
    and long future on the asset store.. Best of luck .. this to me is a asset that for sure is needed
    in unity :)
     
  23. tosvus

    tosvus

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    Thanks. Hopefully @SniperEvan can cover the workflow of "reskinning" in a tutorial. I bought surforge today and it is great, but have to say that without Evan's videos, I would probably be stuck. Major props to him for adding those. I think you should work on some official tutorials that have narration though.
     
    jc_lvngstn and pixelsteam like this.
  24. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    Thank you very much Mark_01, tosvus, and all surforge users for your purchase and feedback.
    I will definitely make more video tutorials. Please treat with understanding, that English is not my native, and I do not have much practice speaking on it.
    Evan helped out very much with the narrative videos. Great work!
    I tried to make the interface as simple as possible, and added auto text hints for applied tools to make the videos more informative. But I certainly understand that this will not replace the narrative video, and i also understand that any new tool could be somewhat confusing at first.
    I will try to do my best.
     
  25. combatsheep

    combatsheep

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    Hello.
    Does it work on intel Graphic HD 5300?
    (MacBook 12inch Early2015)
     
  26. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    I hope that it should work.
    When it comes to graphics software, a powerful desktop system usually wins compared to laptops. Mobile video cards usually have limitations. But your system is modern and I hope everything will be fine.

    I have really ancient MacMini 2011 (Intel HD Graphics 3000) for tests, and managed to run Surforge on it, but it was to slow for comfort work. But also, on that hardware Dota 2 was quite unplayable too.

    I think you could try it. You could always make a refund.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  27. pixelsteam

    pixelsteam

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    @Sergeyv_3d
    Love your tool. Really amazing.
    One area that would make this really shine is a UV map layout system. As this has been the biggest hassle with this tool and really dampens the true power of Surforge.
    See attached WIP for our game DroneTopolis.com
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  28. Pyxis-Belgique

    Pyxis-Belgique

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    Just pop-in to let you know that we encourage you in your work and bought an early license.

    Since we do not focus on Sci-Fi or Celtic fantasy assets right now, our only wishes with this awesome and easy to use tools is a broader range of thematic details and materials as well as all-purpose tools to easily mix PBR textures without leaving Unity.

    Congratulations for this very clever product !
     
    pixelsteam likes this.
  29. Pyxis-Belgique

    Pyxis-Belgique

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    Oh by the way, Surforge (v 1.0.2) editor doesn't work quite well in "Linear Color Space" mode (Unity 5.4.4f1). Everything turns darker in this mode.
    Many libraries, shaders and fine tuning require Linear Color Space to work, so I guess it's a good idea to have a look at this ;)
     
    nxrighthere likes this.
  30. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    Thank you.
    Great work on the DroneTopolis!

    There are many improvements on the UV island border shape recognition and UV snapping and viewport related performance in upcoming 1.0.3. I was hoping that it would be live by the end of month, but it is still on the review.
    I hope to add some UV tools at some point to Surforge. But it is not simple at all to code a good UV editor itself.

    Thank you very much for your purchase and feedback.

    Surforge was designed to work in gamma space. It provides the output of the finished result, and gamma workflow also more popular and easier to use. It is also hard to support both workflows at the same time.
    I will explore what could be done in this direction.
     
    red2blue and pixelsteam like this.
  31. Obsurveyor

    Obsurveyor

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    Seconding Linear space support. Gamma is definitely going out of fashion for the modern PBR & realistic lighting workflows we have today.
     
    punk, doq, red2blue and 1 other person like this.
  32. tosvus

    tosvus

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    Probably a stupid question but... You have a bunch of nice materials that can be used, but is there an easy way to use other materials? I tried to drag one onto the uv screen, and it overlays it there, but doesn't seem to be any way to use it. Ideally, it would be good if we could use Substance materials too, as there are a lot of nice preloaded ones that come with that package, and given out for free by substance users. Very high quality stuff.

    Edit: I understand I can put an albedo texture from another material, but thinking more of the seamless pbr materials, so you preserve glossiness etc - rather than adding texture and having to tinker and hope to achieve a similar effect to existing materials.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  33. smada-luap

    smada-luap

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    Got this downloaded tonight after getting home from work.

    Only had the briefest of looks at how it works at the moment, and after getting over the confusion as to where the UV layouts were - by basically resetting the layout windows in the project to match those in the manual :D - I had a quick play around with drawing some lasso areas, etc.

    Time to go away and read through the manual this weekend :)
     
  34. MS80

    MS80

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    Surforge is truley a masterpiece!

    The amount of work in this asset is clearly visible, catching this at a sale-price feels like a present.
    What I really like is, that most elements (like profiles, details, etc) can be customized easily. After a few minutes I was able to add some custom PolyLassoProfiles and Details to surforge.

    Waiting for 1.0.3 ;)

    Anyway, here are some issues / suggestions while testing Surforge 1.0.2 with Unity 5.5.0f3 (Win10, GTX1070):
    • does not look correct in linear mode
    • screenshot function does not work for me: "DirectoryNotFoundException: Could not find a part of the path "C:\...."; also Surforge's 3d preview is broken after trying to create screenshot (grey screen), unity needs a restart to fix this
    • performance issues with complex 3d objects (many polygons, lot of uv shells) => very long response-time or crashes, some uv islands cannot be filled with the lasso tool
    • some tuturials how to create custom polylasso-profiles, materials, decals, details would be nice
    • option to setup the spec textures for "metallic" as well would be cool
    • while I really like all of the included stuff, it seems strongly orientated to sci-fi scenarios (at least my first results looked like this), maybe you could add more generic stuff for other needs (like you did with the ornaments) in the future as well?!
    • a workflow to enhance / modify existing textures would maybe fit onto the roadmap?
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
    nxrighthere and red2blue like this.
  35. combatsheep

    combatsheep

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    Thank you Sergeyv_3d!
     
  36. punk

    punk

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    Definitely need linear support for PBR
     
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  37. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    Thank you very much for your feedbacks.

    This is fixed in upcoming 1.0.3, empty Screenshots folder was removed by Asset Store Tools.
    For now, you could just create this folder and restart Unity.

    Viewport performance, model loading speed and UV islands border shapes detection got huge improvements in upcoming 1.0.3 It is already submitted for approvemet. And there still room for even more future optimization.

    Sure. This will be improved. New tools planned, as well as new detail assets of different themes.
    Sci-fi just the easiest theme to work with for Surforge pipeline, and such assets easiest to create, so it have been added in the first place.

    Linear workflow support will be added as soon as possible.
    I've already started working on in.

    You could add your own materials, but you have to recreate it in Surforge format.
    Please check here the detailed description of Surforge material system, and also Evan's video about Surforge material sets.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
  38. MaskedGibbon

    MaskedGibbon

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    I bought this the other day while it was on sale, and so far I love it (I will definitely rate it 5 stars and give it a glowing review). I have limited artistic ability, but using your sample crown model (and Evan's videos - cheers Evan!) I was able to quickly texture something that looked pretty amazing.

    However, my project leans more towards fantasy than sci-fi, so I'd just like to add my voice to those asking for more materials/ornaments/details/etc with a fantasy bent. It would be nice if there were some cloth/leather/chain/scale materials, maybe stitching for details? I don't know how feasible any of that actually is...

    In any case, keep up the excellent work.
     
    pixelsteam likes this.
  39. Teila

    Teila

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    Will items made with Surforge work fine in linear? I beg to differ about the popularity of gamma, especially in terrain and PC games. :) I only use linear so I hope this means that Surforge is still usable. If not, you really need to put this in the asset store description.

    At the very least we need to be able to use objects made in gamma with linear without them looking horrible. Any way to change the shader to make them work? Will the standard shader still work with a finished project? If anyone finds a way, please let me know. I am disappointed to say the least. I realize it is hard, but at the very least, let us know before we purchase.

    I am going to do some testing tomorrow or tonight.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
    hopeful likes this.
  40. punk

    punk

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    no problem I was just sharing my thoughts, totally understand ;)
     
  41. chelnok

    chelnok

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    I don't have surforge (yet), but i believe i have an answer for you: At the moment, probably 99% of textures found from asset store are gamma corrected textures (even if the description says pbr) You can use them just fine. If you need or want to "fix" them back to linear, just boost some dark and midtones in any image editor. That is basicly the only difference with gamma / linear textures.
     
  42. Teila

    Teila

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    I do not use asset store textures but textures from gametextures.com which are PBR. I can take them into photoshop, each albedo and change the color but it sort of defeats the purpose of an easy to use asset in Unity. ;)

    I am off to a meeting but had a friend test for me, and it is obvious that the textures do not look good in linear when made for Gamma. Unfortunately, all my textures are made for linear. So we will see. I will test myself when I get home. Definitely think this is a problem. The vast majority of AAA and AA games use linear these days unless for mobile or maybe VR.

    My biggest issue with this is that it wasn't spelled out in the asset store description. While I can use PS, not everyone who buys this will be able to understand the "midtones" adjustments that need to be made.
     
    hopeful likes this.
  43. tosvus

    tosvus

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    Thanks for the quick response, I really like developers who provide good support and quick feedback! I did read that, the manual and looked at Evan's video, but it doesn't really offer what I think needs to be in the product down the line. I understand this is a very new product, and we all have to be patient about getting new features implemented, but I hope you do add into the roadmap, a better way to import additional materials (not textures/recreate them). While the included library is nice, and it is possible to create other materials by adding a texture (albedo) and tweaking it - I can't really match the work with what I could do for a base type material in for instance Substance - and more importantly, I can't match what some excellent artists who already created brilliant materials did. At this point I'm sort of stuck with having to split models up, and do maybe a portion in surforge to utilize your cool features, and do other portions by applying substance materials (which are simply drag and drop in unity). Thanks for listening!
     
  44. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    I think that you greatly dramatize. PBR is a conception, not rigid set of rules. Also, as chelnok said, most of game asset textures are gamma corrected. And this does not make them a non-PBR, its just a different pipeline. Asset Store is full of assets with gamma textures, and in their description nothing is indicated.

    Also, even if you going to use your gamma textures with linear pipeline, things are not that bad. You could just correct your textures and all will be fine. For metals you would barely even see the difference. If you export "winged helmet" Surforge example scene textures for example, and then switch to "linear" workflow it would look just as good as in gamma.

    There is "Adjust" group of settings in Surforge material editor drop down menu, where you could handy tweak your gamma, levels, specular/glossiness globally per your material set.

    I understand the need of linear pipeline support, and I'll see what I can do. Please, do not worry.
    Please let me know, if you have issues and i will do my best to help you out. But if something looks not as intended, most likely the reason is in skybox, lightmaps, lightning or post processing settings, or specular/glossiness settings of your materials (not that much depending on gamma).
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
  45. hopeful

    hopeful

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    This is a confusing issue. While it may be that the asset store is filled with content that is gamma corrected, it's also true that the asset store is filled with old assets (pre-Unity 5) and assets that are designed for mobile.

    With Unity 5, everything made for desktop defaults to a linear colorspace.

    So ... what exactly is the difference between a gamma-corrected texture and a linear texture? I don't need a long and technically accurate description. It can be explained in simple terms ... I'm a simple person. :)
     
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  46. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    In short and simple terms, to show image on computer display good, bright midtones must have wider range, than dark ones.
    But, for image effects, rendering and other math that could be done with textures, this pre-correction could sometimes interfere.
    You still have to make a gamma correction in the end, but the idea of linear pipeline, is that you do that correction at the very end of your rendering pipeline, and all intermediate calculations will not be affected by that pre-made correction (which is often already done for textures).
     
  47. ethanwgross

    ethanwgross

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    just a heads up on a typo in the description. Says "Surfroge" instead of Surforge. lol
     

    Attached Files:

  48. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    Thank you very much for finding it.
     
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  49. Teila

    Teila

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    With all due respect, I do not think I am over dramatizing. I am chatting with a number of folks who feel the same way. Gamma is old and outdated for PBR. I assume when I buy an asset that it can be used both in linear and gamma unless it states otherwise. Very sorry to see that this was not true.

    I am not worried about because...I just won't use it if the items look worse than my other models. :) I will certainly post lots of pictures and ask for help if it is something I can fix and I would absolutely love to see linear support. Tools like this are time savers for me and if they add more work, it defeats the purpose.
     
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  50. Sergeyv_3d

    Sergeyv_3d

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    I've already started working on linear workflow support, and have some promising results.

    Many difficulties of all kinds, with render textures sRgb conversion, and so on. But it is definitely could be done.
    Please treat with understanding, that this will require time to implement.
     
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