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2019.3 entered the final stages of beta testing

Discussion in '2019.3 Beta' started by LeonhardP, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. LostPanda

    LostPanda

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    Everyone is here because of the need for unity and the love for unity. Many people have been using Unity for many years. We have proposed so many, especially the stability of the new version of Unity, which is really bad. Do we need to switch to Unreal?
     
  2. Metron

    Metron

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    I don't think that switching is necessary... IF they get their stuff together.

    They're closing bugs as being fixed when they really aren't... And this could be catched by regression tests easily. Perhaps they have just given up on doing any QA internally other than unit testing???

    Latest example: UnityEvents with one or more parameters don't show up in the Inspector... Bug known for some months... declared as being fixed...
     
  3. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    Well if you can give me more info about your setup I will happily report the bug for you, but sadly my OSX bug reporting worked, so there is some "special"ness to it somewhere
     
  4. Peter77

    Peter77

    QA Jesus

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    Yep, it's very unfortunate that the issue tracker only says "Fixed in 2019.3" (link) rather than in which 2019.3.x release specifically. They should be as specific as possible with the "Fixed in" version numbers. It could be fixed in a release that's just not available yet, for example their next RC.
     
    TextusGames and ImpossibleRobert like this.
  5. konsic

    konsic

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    Terrain, tree, and foliage SRP materials are still not working.
     
    LostPanda and Awarisu like this.
  6. Metron

    Metron

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    I mean... gosh.. take a look at the reproducable-not reproducable list of the bug:

    Reproducible with: 2018.4.9f1, 2018.4.12f1, 2019.2.5f1, 2019.2.12f1, 2019.3.0a12, 2019.3.0b10, 2020.1.0a12
    Not reproducible with: 2018.4.8f1, 2019.2.0a1, 2019.2.4f1, 2019.3.0a1, 2019.3.0a11

    Which means:
    N2018.4.8f1 R2018.4.9f1 R2018.4.12f1 N2019.2.0a1 N2019.2.4f1 R2019.2.5f1 R2019.2.12f1 N2019.3.0a1 N2019.3.0a11 R2019.3.0a12 R2019.3.0b10 R2020.1.0a12

    What have they done??? Put in a toggle to activate the bug? How many different code basis do they have to have such an inconsistent way to reproduce the bug along the releases?

    A lot of this looks like merges could have gone wrong. Or different branches are released but not merged into a proper version beforehand so that some branches still have the bug and others don't...

    How is this not a visual unit test?
     
  7. Awarisu

    Awarisu

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    To be fair to Unity, bugs that behave like this do exist. I had a bug once that made a program randomly crash about half the time - turns out the true issue was a compiler bug in MSVC regarding the treatment of `auto` back when C++11 was new. Without knowing anything about this bug in particular, it could be that there's an X% chance during compilation that this bug gets placed into the binaries. These are difficult to track down.
     
  8. wlad_s

    wlad_s

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    Feels as if they're trying to go too fast with all the new features. Probably unrealistic goals set by management.

    I'm just guessing but maybe they wanted to finish URP and HDRP and make them ready before the new consoles are out, which is probably next holiday season.

    They should have just worked slowly but steadily on new Unity without hurry and present it to us once it's done and ready to be used. Maybe make an "early access" version available for hobbyists but totally separate from regular and stable version for production, which would've been bugfixed and maintained to support new platforms.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
    patrykszylindev likes this.
  9. Deozaan

    Deozaan

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    They did this, but they didn't label it honestly/clearly. The LTS release is the "regular/stable/production" version. The "early access/beta" version is the TECH release.

    All they have to do is rename LTS -> Stable and TECH -> Unstable or Preview or Beta and I think there will be a lot less complaints happening.
     
  10. tonialatalo

    tonialatalo

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    That seems to mean that the bug happened after 2019.3.0a11 - was not in that, but is in 2019.3.a12.

    Older versions get backports of new things, so I guess that went into 2018.4 after .8 to .9.
    Similarily to 2019.2 after .4 to .5. And it's still in 2019.2.12f1 at least too.

    Seems logical and organized. I suppose when it's fixed it then again goes to updates in the older series similarily.
     
  11. 00christian00

    00christian00

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    I understand the delay, but why is there no new version anymore?
    And why go directly from beta to final skipping release candidate? Kinda misleading.
     
    Abrasive likes this.
  12. wlad_s

    wlad_s

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    I'm not sure if they plan to add new platform support to 2018LTS and 2019LTS. They said that LTS support would last two years though, so if the new consoles are out before the end of 2020, then 2018LTS and 2019LTS should get support. If not, we'll be forced to update and I doubt that URP and HDRP will be truly ready before 2020 LTS.
     
  13. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    What? It's not in release at all.
     
  14. konsic

    konsic

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    Please update grass, tree editor, terrain materials brushes for final HDRP7.2.0.
     
    Waterlane likes this.
  15. 00christian00

    00christian00

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    The f in the version stands for "final". If you notice all the released versions have an "f".
    This is the only time they had to postpone, otherwise normally the first "f" version is the one that goes public.
    It's a minor thing, but if somebody see just the version name and not the forum it may think it's a stable version while it's a RC.
     
    Hypertectonic and phobos2077 like this.
  16. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    I thought all the release candidates got given an f so there werent issues with components and version numbering type issues
     
  17. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Yeah, this is the case. It's been this since it entered the RC phase.
     
    AcidArrow likes this.
  18. pbritton

    pbritton

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    I am still flabbergasted that it has been over a year and absolutely nothing has been said about this issue. HDRP is no longer in preview yet its incompatible with editor features. As expected, there is an asset in the asset store to solve the problem.:confused:
     
  19. konsic

    konsic

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    I assume they are working on 2020.1 and then API structural changes will be ported over 2019.3 SRP.
     
  20. Neonlyte

    Neonlyte

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    As long as I don't have to write C++...
     
    bugfinders likes this.
  21. Grimreaper358

    Grimreaper358

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    HDRP is still in Preview. It's being finalized to be out of preview with the release of 2019.3. If you check Github you can see all the work that's being done for that. All the refactoring and bug fixes to have a nice release.
     
  22. tspk91

    tspk91

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  23. Bordeaux_Fox

    Bordeaux_Fox

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    One should also mentioned that HDRP cannot be named out of preview as long as decal projector component is not fixed. Their material still does not refresh properly if you change it at runtime.
     
  24. pbritton

    pbritton

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    I am using 2019.3b12 and its not tagged as preview.
     
  25. Grimreaper358

    Grimreaper358

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    Yes, that's because it's being prepared for release so the preview tag got removed from it and its codebase a while ago. Just as 19.3 is still in beta, HDRP is still in preview and both finalizing for full release. The same thing happened with LWRP/URP for 2018.3
     
  26. Deozaan

    Deozaan

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    I'm not sure why Unity thinks it's a good idea to prematurely remove the preview label (especially when there are already so many complaints about "production ready" features which have been released for some time but are still quite buggy or in some cases broken) but the same thing also happened for the new input system which isn't due to be released until 2020.1 launches. The preview label was removed despite it not being finished yet.
     
  27. Neto_Kokku

    Neto_Kokku

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    Quick question: is it safe to load asset bundles generated for 2019.2 in 2019.3? We might need to ship a game using 19.2 and upgrade to 19.3 later, because there's no hope of it becoming reliable enough for multi console deployment anytime soon, and I would like to avoid having to rebuild all asset bundles and pushing a needlessly huge patch.
     
  28. Awarisu

    Awarisu

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    No. Nothing is safe with 2019.3 until it's released, and after that, who knows.
     
  29. Neto_Kokku

    Neto_Kokku

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  30. Bordeaux_Fox

    Bordeaux_Fox

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    That production ready is also misleading. Generally, before I use something new in Unity, I try to gather opinions and bug reports from the forum and issue tracker. When I make my own stress test with these new feature.

    Perhaps Unity should publish some document explaining what points should be fullfilled to take the preview level away.
    But all in all any feature could break at any update, even standard components like cloth and prefabs. So you always have to be very carefull with updates.
     
    phobos2077 and bugfinders like this.
  31. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    Very much - the bigger a project gets, it often seems the more likely something somewhere will cease to work - for me, in one project all of a specific table type lose their mesh links.. no idea why, they just do. minor version changes fine, more major, so 2019.1,l to 2019.2 etc, guaranteed the tables will lose their meshes - nothing else does!

    However, due to the ever evolving nature of unity, as well as new, out goes some old. Just make sure your project is safe in say github somewhere, and then no matter how unity may eat it, or not, you can always revert
     
  32. transat

    transat

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    I think this is a very important point. Play it safe on a stable branch and then experiment with preview packages on other branches.
     
  33. Saturn1004

    Saturn1004

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    I think this graph speaks for itself.
    Unity 2019.3...
    Reverting back to 2019.2
    Avoid until they get things sorted.

    (I was one of the ones who downloaded 2019.3 from the hub while it was in the releases section, then when it was pulled and put in the beta section suddenly I'm a beta tester lol)
     
  34. runner78

    runner78

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    Don't upgrade important projects on the first day of new releases. And the hub is the wrong place to check if a new Major version released.
     
  35. Awarisu

    Awarisu

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    That's just wrong. If the Hub lists a new release, you should reasonably be able to expect that it's... well, a new release.
     
  36. runner78

    runner78

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    Don't trust the Hub :p Check the official announcements. ;)
     
    rz_0lento and TextusGames like this.
  37. Awarisu

    Awarisu

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    "Don't trust what we communicate through our official product" is not just horrible PR, it's simply unacceptable.
     
  38. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    problem is, once bitten and all that, when f3 was put out as released, I too downloaded it thinking released product.. now admittedly any change in unity version mid project needs a bit of a plan, but, still, it was a bit of a c*ck up on unitys front to put it out as released, even if it was only for a short while..

    I am glad that they have made it more clear of beta/alpha versions on the hub as at one point people would see say 2020 alpha and assume thats the latest stable.. then newbs learning would complain it doesnt work the same as the one in the tutorial.. etc..

    I wouldnt go as far as to say dont trust hub, but specifically but at the same time I would say dont on hour 1 move your project to a brand new version, even some of the minor version changes can cause some wiggles, let it settle and have people poke it with sticks for a bit first.. or put some specific test projects on it, that you have as almost a mcve of your requirements/issues to see where they stand with the new version
     
    gforeman likes this.
  39. Neto_Kokku

    Neto_Kokku

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    Really people, you should never upgrade your projects (specially a live game) to a new engine version this soon. This goes for any game engine, be it Unity, UE4, Godot, etc. Heck, Epic Games does major "dog fooding" of their own engine (Fortnite, Battle Breakers, Match3, Action RPG, ShooterGame) and I still won't even consider a new UE4 version until the next version goes into preview.

    My advice: don't upgrade anything that is expected to ship in under 6 months to 2019.3 until the LTS is out and has received at least 5 patches.
     
  40. rz_0lento

    rz_0lento

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    Just to make this clear, this was Hub /pipeline issue, Unity never officially communicated they actually released 2019.3 back then. Even if you opened changelog for the version you saw on Hub releases, changelog had caption that it was a release candidate, not a full release.

    So it wasn't like that they accidentally released the thing, found it too buggy and put it back in the beta, only thing that happened was that Hub accidentally placed the release on wrong slot for half a day or something due to a error (either human/system).
     
  41. buFFalo94

    buFFalo94

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    I don't agree
    They were planning to release it but they held it back because of bugs
     
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  42. rz_0lento

    rz_0lento

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    They planned to release 2019.3 last year, yes. But 2019.3.0f1 wasn't planned to be the release nor was it "pulled back to beta side" after being public for one day, that's all I'm trying to say here.

    For the ref, this is the 2019.3.0f1 release note: https://unity3d.com/unity/beta/2019.3.0f1
    just read the caption there, it's clearly not meant to be a final release. And do note that this page existed even before f1 went live on Hub, it's not modified in post.

    There is another issue here, which ultimately ALSO boils down to Unity Hub's shortcomings: after you've downloaded a RC with Hub, it doesn't communicate the user it's RC / beta anymore. Right now you can see it's in pre-releases prior to downloading it with Hub but after installing it, it's shown like any actual release. This is indeed a Hub's UX failure.
     
  43. rz_0lento

    rz_0lento

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    Ultimately, there are many unhappy users here because Unity Hub doesn't work like users would expect it to, but it really is fault of how Hub works and Unity should focus on fixing these things. There's a lot of improvements done on this segment already (they moved pre-releases further down on the Hub install list now) but it's really slow progress as Unity can't move that quickly on tool that affects all users.
     
  44. 00christian00

    00christian00

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    I still have the old version 1.6.1 and never had an issue.
    It does everything that is supposed to do, I don't understand why they had to reinvent the wheel...
     
    mikecaputo likes this.
  45. rz_0lento

    rz_0lento

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    When Hub 2.0 launched, they had made almost everything possible on it worse IMHO. They've slowly fixed things on it since but there's still work to be done (obviously since like seen happen on this thread when people are pissed off about Hub not labeling releases correctly).
     
  46. cuttinged

    cuttinged

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    I think they go by year made not year released. Makes sense huh? :)
     
  47. buFFalo94

    buFFalo94

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    I do understand your point and I'm not talking about Hub but when you see unity releasing a 5th release candidate you know that there's something wrong
     
    Awarisu likes this.
  48. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    Unfortunately this is a modern company thing, trying to run too fast and not necessarily sure of all the consequences.. While it has happened much in history too, it feels almost every company does it now. It is also in part the consumer fault too though, as many demand new and exciting and want... most book writers used to take years... now its almost a few months, new car models came out like years apart, with maybe a few minor cosmetic changes, now, gotta have all the latest gizmos so they end up changing loads, and recalling loads.. even washing machines etc.. software is worse, if unity released nightly builds, you'd bet there would be people downloading and using them, some probably for production!

    But I also agree getting to a 5th release candidate, and its not like the 5th in 5 days, its, been a few weeks..... so a lot can change in that time and its still "not good"?
     
  49. PeterB

    PeterB

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    We don't want "new and exciting" at any cost. We want stability and dependability. And that is also what Unity needs, both as a product and as a company. Unfortunately these qualities are nowhere present in Unity and this situation has persisted for years now. And all this because Unity so desperately wants to be AAA and has a CTO who doesn't care one iota about the user base. Unity is now in a state where there's no stable networking system, no stable lightmapper or GI solution, no stable graphics pipelines, three different physics engines and a half-arsed terrain system. Plus of course a myriad of bugs which have been left unattended for years. And on top of this, Unity wants us to switch to a completely new programming model and adopt new, non-functioning render pipelines.

    And they are doing all this using their paying user base as their integration pipeline.

    When Unreal gets C# I'll be out of here in a second, and so will many others.

    Unity simply aren't taking their users seriously. They don't care. If they did, we wouldn't have this pathetic mess. Simple fact. Instead Unity focusses on producing AAA "demos" which in no way reflect the real state of the product and which stop working in the next Unity version because they cut so many corners and are so specialised that they don't even survive a minor version upgrade.

    The amount of smoke and mirrors is astounding.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  50. Deozaan

    Deozaan

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    Reminds me of Asset Store 2.0. . .
     
    Awarisu likes this.